PTU drain plug drill and tap

[enigma-2]

When I took mine in, the asst service mgr didn't have a code for change of fluid, couldn't estimate the cost. I had him call up the mechanic and he said, "sure, I can do that, good idea", estimated labor at 1/2 hour and fluid cost. Think I paid around $80.

[jlkansascity]

When I took mine in, the asst service mgr didn't have a code for change of fluid, couldn't estimate the cost. I had him call up the mechanic and he said, "sure, I can do that, good idea", estimated labor at 1/2 hour and fluid cost. Think I paid around $80.

 

 

This is what's frustrating and you would think that Ford would figure this out. I go in the local dealer, I'm told $440.00 to change the transfer case oil because they're run by a bunch of "nose to the manual" types who can't think on their own (or don't give a crap about the customer). Then, down the road somewhere, you get it done for $80.00. Then, when they called, they recommended I let them change the power steering fluid for about 110.00, the brake fluid for 50.00 or something and the air filter for 50.00 or something. The one fluid I WANTED changed, they can't, but they want to upsell me on all this crap I don't need and can do on my own.

 

That would be like going in one McDonalds and a 1/4 pounder costs $8.00 and then down the road they're charging $40.00.

 

I am TRYING to find a dealer like yours, who will work with me and have at least some of my concerns listened to. Simi Valley Ford / @simifordman is NOT that dealer.

 

BTW, where are you/what is the dealer you're working with, maybe it's within driving distance. I'd pay $80.00 in a heartbeat to get it changed.

 

JL

[enigma-2]

Eby Ford, Goshen, IN.

 

It's been my experience that the people working the front desk are not mechanics; they're really salesmen (er, sales assiciates). Whenever I see them hedging, I ask to speak with a mechanic. I've never been disappointed in talking to the mechanics.

 

Remember the old addage, "the customer's always right". -》And you're the customer.

Don't like what their tell you, ask to speak with the dealership owner.

 

(One advantage to being a senior citizen is, I just don't give a damn).

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

LOL LOL LOL

(One advantage to being a senior citizen is, I just don't give a damn).

[Transplant]

Hi all,

 

First post, new (to me) 2014 AWD Edge owner, 2 days old... I got quite nervous when I was reading up on my purchase about the TPU issues with visions of imminent failure to the tune of $2K plus swimming in my head...

 

My 2014 had only 28,000 km's (appx 15K miles) on it. I had gotten it from a new Ford dealer near Vancouver BC. I returned to the Quick Lube service this morning and asked for the car to be put up on the lift to look at it.

My TPU was very obvious and showed zero leakage to the seals, no drips or oil anywhere, thankfully. There was even a red painted fill plug on the left side of the TPU, which looked factory.

 

I had the young tech siphon out the gear oil, it was black but looked like 75-140W consistency. We replaced with the Ford spec, $26.45 in fluid and $80 in labor. So for $106 (Cdn) I feel wayyyyy better about the TPU fluid condition and future service cost now.

 

I asked the tech about other Edges having TPU issues, he acknowledged that he'd replaced a few seals and a TPU before, but not many. Course he was newer and only one of about 6 techs at the dealership.

 

So did Ford do something different for the 2014's, (mine is a Feb 14 build) or am I just fortunate? Sorry no picture (I didn't think of taking one) but I may crawl underneath and try...

[Transplant]

Sorry but the pics don't take even with flash, it was very evident what the fill plug was though... Hope this helps someone.

I changed trans fluid as well, $160 Cdn, they thought I was kinda crazy with not even 30K but I wanted to see its condition...

With a used car who knows how it was treated.

[Brian K]

Hi Transplant

That price sounds reasonable and the power sucker should have done a reasonable job getting most of the old stuff out and if you can't change it all, then changing some is better than ignoring it, plus you know it is full. You just have to get them to do it at a "Time and Material" rate rather than the prescribed rate which in some cases it is good that there isn't one (sort of). Sounds like your PTU is the same as mine (08). I had the same colour marking on the fill plug too and it is on the left side. I'd do it every year (or maybe two). Cheap insurance. I put in a PTU drain and will change mine myself at every (DIY) engine oil change. Maybe over kill but at a bit over a half a liter - the cost is minimal. I used Lucas 75W140 and it was about $20 for about a liter at Autovalue.

[jlkansascity]

Eby Ford, Goshen, IN.

 

It's been my experience that the people working the front desk are not mechanics; they're really salesmen (er, sales assiciates). Whenever I see them hedging, I ask to speak with a mechanic. I've never been disappointed in talking to the mechanics.

 

Remember the old addage, "the customer's always right". -》And you're the customer.

Don't like what their tell you, ask to speak with the dealership owner.

 

(One advantage to being a senior citizen is, I just don't give a damn).

 

The dealer I went to here (Simi Valley Ford), the service manager first said it was impossible; you would need a hose as small as a hummingbird's proboscis to get into the PTU/PTO according to him. That was his first position. Then, I told him that I have changed it personally with a suction device a dozen times so that was not true. Then he went and talked with his head mechanic. Their next and final position was "The Book" says you have to pull the PTU/PTO to change the oil, and they had/have no creativity beyond reading what The Book says for them to do. So I essentially had three choices; 1) pay $440.00 for them to do it like The Book says, 2) do nothing or 3) go somewhere else. I'm going somewhere else, but I would love to find a Ford dealer who had some creativity and could see things from my perspective.

 

Update; I used Yelp's feature to send a request to 4 local oil change places to see who sounded familiar with this process and competent and maybe could perform this oil change. I did find one that sounds promising and I am going to take the Edge to them. But, to further illustrate the point that many shops don't really think much outside the box, one local auto repair / oil change / brake repair shop said they "never heard of it" when asking about this maintenance. What kind of shop has "never heard" of changing the transfer case oil on a AWD? LOL

Edited July 5, 2016 by jlkansascity

[Brian K]

You could also try some tranny shops. They would be familiar with changing the PTU and probably wouldn't be afraid of sucking out the old oil and adding new and they wouldn't have to do it by Ford's book - which does say that the PTU has to be removed - and it seems the Ford guys can't think outside the Ford box.

[enigma-2]

I second Brian's thinking. My advice would be to avoid all change shops, at all costs.

 

A tranny shop is much more qualified to do this (and more professional). You don't want a kid who was serving burgers last week servicing your PTU.

[enigma-2]

Duplicate -pulled.

Edited July 6, 2016 by enigma-2

[jlkansascity]

I second Brian's thinking. My advice would be to avoid all change shops, at all costs.

 

A tranny shop is much more qualified to do this (and more professional). You don't want a kid who was serving burgers last week servicing your PTU.

 

 

Yeah, I found one who knows what I'm talking about and has all the right equipment to do it, and has done it before. They charge $49.00 - $80.00 depending on the car, so I'll report back after I try them out in a few weeks or so.

 

JL

[TourGuide]

 

 

Yeah, I found one who knows what I'm talking about and has all the right equipment to do it, and has done it before. They charge $49.00 - $80.00 depending on the car, so I'll report back after I try them out in a few weeks or so.

 

JL

 

It is good to know that at least someone has found a shop willing to do the work. The first shop I checked with said - "Nope - Can't be done.". Of course they are quoting the Ford playbook - so my search continues.

[jlkansascity]

 

It is good to know that at least someone has found a shop willing to do the work. The first shop I checked with said - "Nope - Can't be done.". Of course they are quoting the Ford playbook - so my search continues.

 

 

I just went on Yelp, searched my area for "oil change". Then I sorted by top reviewed and read a lot of the reviews. Then I looked for ones that were also more of a shop, doing other work as well because I figured a guy with two bays just doing oil changes is probably not the best choice. Then I sent a message to the shop (from Yelp) and Yelp also then will let you send that same message to 4 other shops with the click of a mouse.

 

So, 5 shops got a message from Yelp. My first choice replied within minutes, knew exactly what i was talking about and said no problem. One other guy replied and said he'd never heard of it, and then he said that all transfer cases have drain plugs, so he got eliminated...

[Brian K]

If the vehicle is up on a lift, removing the fill plug, sucking out the pint (0.53Liters) of oil and filling it should only take a short time - I'd guess less than 1/2 an hour. The only difficulty and possible time delay is if the exhaust is hot, because you have to get your hands up to the PTU and your arms could touch the exhaust pipe. Sucking the oil out should be no problem if it isn't too gummy and is generally the way rear diff's are serviced by many shops so this procedure shouldn't be new to anyone and they should have a suction tool.

 

Good luck finding a shop that can think for themselves and do what you request. I did go to one shop and asked them to save an old PTU for me so I can have a look at the vent and the guy said I wasted my money changing the oil because at 90,000 miles the PTU was probably just about ready to fail. To me, since the oil change, the vehicle sounds and feels much smoother (hopefully not just my imagination LOL).

[TourGuide]

I did go to one shop and asked them to save an old PTU for me so I can have a look at the vent and the guy said I wasted my money changing the oil because at 90,000 miles the PTU was probably just about ready to fail. To me, since the oil change, the vehicle sounds and feels much smoother (hopefully not just my imagination LOL).

 

See this guy you talked to gives the Ford position and attitude on this perfectly. I've always been more of a mind that I have a better chance of the vehicle treating me right when I PROPERLY maintain it.

 

I kind of got a laugh at my Dad with his 'maintenance' of his small engines with stuff like oil changes. He just never did them. Put in gas and away you go. After he replaced the third engine I figured he would kind of get the idea - nope. Dad was probably secretly working on the side in charge of Ford PTU maintenance. I know for a fact he fit in perfectly with the corporate philosophy where PTUs are concerned.

[Brian K]

Eventually one learns that it is cheaper to change oil than parts.

[Azeriford]

Hi all,

 

I have read most the thread and it was really helpful with all the information. My Ford Edge 2008 with 98k km also got the PTO issue and now the car is at the mechanic's place. He told me the PTO is to be replaced, so I guess I will have to buy a new one. But the problem is in the fact that I live in Baku, Azerbaijan, which almost doubles the price of a new PTO if I order one from US. New one costs 1600usd plus shipping around 600 usd.

Does anyone know any other optimal way I could find a new PTO for a lesser price or a shipping fee?

[Ironpeddler]

Hi all,

 

I have read most the thread and it was really helpful with all the information. My Ford Edge 2008 with 98k km also got the PTO issue and now the car is at the mechanic's place. He told me the PTO is to be replaced, so I guess I will have to buy a new one. But the problem is in the fact that I live in Baku, Azerbaijan, which almost doubles the price of a new PTO if I order one from US. New one costs 1600usd plus shipping around 600 usd.

Does anyone know any other optimal way I could find a new PTO for a lesser price or a shipping fee?

 

See if one of the vendors on eBay will ship to you. There are quite a few that sell the newest version to use as a replacement.

 

Good luck!

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

Benny at LevittownFordSuperCenter can definitely answer your questions, Azeriford. Post your needs/questions in this thread:

http://www.fordedgeforum.com/topic/10937-employee-pricing-on-all-parts-accessories/page-11

[enigma-2]

Have you checked ebay? Anything used from a local (Azerbaijan) junk yard?

[jlkansascity]

Update; Mine now has 160k on it. I was changing the PTU oil every 6 months, but moved to LA and don't have a garage setup or all the equipment anymore. So I go to Ford to ask them to do it.

 

They tell me it's impossible. When I tell them I've done it dozens of times, then they go talk to "head mechanic" Then they come back and go "by the book" which says it has to be PULLED to change the oil which costs $440.00. And they said all this with a straight face at http://www.simivalleyford.com/This is frustrating because I KNOW there are Ford dealers who can think on their feet and do this type of stuff all the time, I just haven't found one. My daughter has a great dealer in Colorado that does stuff like this no question.

So I went on yelp and contacted a bunch of local shops. I found Express Lube Center who knew exactly what i was talking about and said "no problem" so I went over there and had it done. https://www.yelp.com/biz/xpress-lube-service-center-simi-valley-3

 

After I sell my "other house" (I just moved) we are on the market for a new vehicle and this one will be down the road. Funny thing is my wife LOVES this Edge, so it might be another Edge, dang it!. I hope they've solved this problem and not just replaced it with other problems.

Edited July 22, 2016 by jlkansascity

[enigma-2]

Try a dedicated local transmission shop. Probably get a better PTU flush anyway.

Edited July 23, 2016 by enigma-2

[enigma-2]

.

Edited July 23, 2016 by enigma-2

[Brian K]

I asked at a local tranny shop to save an old PTU that they removed so I could have a look at the inside myself. I got a call yesterday that they had one so I went to pick it up. It appeared to me that the reason for failure was that the oil was venting so the owner wanted it replaced. $2200. I turned the input/output shaft by hand and it felt smooth with very little gear play and in line with what I expected and would consider normal. I drained what oil was left and got about 175 ml. These things take 530 ml to fill to the bottom of the fill port so it was obviously near empty. It didn't appear that the seals were leaking. So I took it apart.

Sure enough as in other pictures posted by others, the thing was full of black greasy sludge all over the place including the vent area. My impression of what happens (and to verify what others have said here too) is that heat is cooking/burning the oil over time and turning it into a sludge although nothing smelled burnt. Then as the liquid oil level gets lower and lower because the sludge gets stuck to the PTU walls and crevices, the gear turning causes oil to froth and spray up into the vent area and get pushed out the vent, rather than getting dragged around the gears and bearings, thus lowering the oil level even more. The bearings appeared to be still quite smooth in this PTU and I didn't feel any roughness when turning the gears individually. There was black thick oil on all the bearings and the gears didn't show signs of wear.

My overall impression of this PTU, was that with oil changes, it could have been saved and kept in service. Thus , to me, this really validates regular oil changes to keep the PTU in good shape and I'm happy that putting in a drain and changing PTU oil regularly should keep it running well for a long time. Even if multiple oil changes are done and the greasy substance isn't cleaned out completely by regular flushing and diluting the sludge, adding oil and keeping it full enough not to spray out the vent area and keeping the bearings in oil at the proper level should keep this lasting indefinitely. There was no obvious wear and there was no grit or evidence of filings in the sludge either - the sludge was just cooked oil almost like grease.

So based on my observations, if you change/add oil even after you first notice drips on the driveway, you should have some hope in keeping your PTU alive. Ignore it and low oil level will eventually result in bearing/total PTU failure. For the life of me, I can't understand why anyone is there right mind (Ford Engineers) would have called this a lifetime fill. Shame on them. Perhaps they forgot that this thing is so close to the hot exhaust. A higher temperature oil spec might have helped too - but who am I to know - I'm only an electrical engineer not a mechanical engineer LOL

Edited July 30, 2016 by Brian K