2011 Edge 3.5L - AFR & Timing

[dingo16123]

Hi all -

 

First post here...I signed up because I can't find much info on these 3.5L in regards to tuning. The ole lady's Edge just doesn't feel right to me when I stomp on the gas (ex. a passing situation). The thing downshifts and screams, but doesn't seem to go anywhere in a hurry. At first I thought tranny was slipping so I hooked up my HPTuners to gather a log. Whoaa! Talk about either crappy tune or something seriously out of whack.

 

Here's a 3rd gear pull, in manual mode...

 

 

At 5300rpm I'm seeing ~7 degrees of timing and a commanded lambda of 0.650! For those of you that don't have a calculator, lambda 0.650 is 9.56 AFR!!! No wonder it feels like a turd, it's probably make like 125hp with that timing and AFR.

 

Also, look at about 4000rpm, the thing is WOT and still commanding stoich with about 2.6 degrees timing!

 

So my question is: Is this normal or is something wrong?

 

Background - I've messed with HPTuners on GM vehicles, but never Ford. I'm not looking to tune this thing, just figure out if it's operating normally or not. On some of the GM's, especially trucks, it's common to see a huge delay commanding richer than stoich AFR when going WOT. So, if Ford is doing the same thing up until the 4000rpm mark, in this case, that doesn't seem foreign to me. My understanding is they do this for fuel mileage so you aren't going into fuel enrichment every time you squeeze on the gas a little too heavy. With that said, the GM's also crank the timing up as the fuel enrichment is added. I'm not seeing this Edge add much timing as it starts dumping fuel, a lot of fuel! Strange.

 

2011 Edge 3.5L SEL AWD, ~140k miles.

 

Feel free to comment! Thanks in advance.

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

What is the maintenance history on the Edge. Electronic controls keep compensating as physical parts wear out, but eventually you do have to replace those parts.

[dingo16123]

It's had regular oil/filter, air filter, brakes, tie rods, etc. The only thing I believe it's behind on is plugs. However, it seems to run fine, smooth at cruise, etc. It even runs smooth when you get on it, just no giddy up.

 

Can you point me in a direction of things that might cause this? I assume this isn't normal, but you didn't state.

 

What is normal timing and AFR when doing a pull like this?

 

It seems odd it would be running so out of whack without any codes. However, I do believe there is an evap code, which I haven't had time to remedy (filler neck). Could evap code cause it to run like this?

 

Maf seems to be reading in the ballpark I would expect, so doubt maf sensor, intake filter or cats could be a problem. Fuel trims don't even look terribly out of the ordinary....

[macbwt]

What are your numbers for shift lag and response? Also have you changed the fluid in the transmission. I will also say you are already at about 70 percent of capacity at far as speed. This will have an affect on acceleration.

[chefduane]

I have found just the opposite on my '11 Limited. No low end but once she's spun up and ahead of the power curve, plenty of passing power. She actually winds out pretty good for non-turbo'd engine.

[dingo16123]

macbwt, Sorry, I'm not sure where shift lag and response come from. I assume these are timing characteristics of the shift. Are those channels that can be scanned through OBD, calculations, etc.? Anyway, could you explain what these would have to do with what I'm seeing?? The screen shot of the log I posted is purposely held in 3rd gear, just to get a decent pull and see what was doing. It wasn't supposed to be shifting. Of course if I let it shift normally, in drive, it would shift down to second.

 

Getting back to the tranny, I know these trannys are smart and always 'adapting.' Is it possible the tranny detected a problem and told the engine ECM to reduce power (lower timing and richer AFR), or would this situation cause a fault code?

[akirby]

Getting back to the tranny, I know these trannys are smart and always 'adapting.' Is it possible the tranny detected a problem and told the engine ECM to reduce power (lower timing and richer AFR), or would this situation cause a fault code?

 

Not directly. The way it works is the computer monitors the actual shift time vs. target and it will adjust the shift pressure as needed to maintain the shift quality to the factory spec. This is to account for manufacturing tolerances and wear over time. It should not reduce power and if it did it would probably throw a code.

[IWRBB]

You're just going to have to get a similar log on another Edge to know for sure.

 

I agree that timing is way low. I don't think the AFR is too far out of whack though- it's always really rich with an OEM tune at WOT. Could be the cat overtemp protection kicking in too.