Antifreeze (coolant) fluid change

[Edgingage]

Hello all:

 

I keep needing your advise and suggestions in different other topics about my new (to me) Edge. I just finished to get good ideas and suggestions in this forum regarding engine oil and filter types for oil changes. Thank you!

 

Next in priority line is the coolant change (as suggested to my first post in the Welcome forum). I'm going to bring a reply over here to continue with that subject in a more appropriate forum (see below). I have done some YouTube search and have found everything from a guy making a big dripping mess to another saying that what Ford dealers do is garbage, and a few other things in between, including guys saying you be drain, feel with water only, drive for half an hour, drain again, feel with antifreeze, drive again for half an hour, drain again, fill again with antifreeze and drive it half an hour again (?) Other even said that the thermostat must also be changed at the same time. In summary, hard for me to discern who knows what is doing or saying in YouTube,

 

Years ago, I used to buy off the shelf at stores any antifreeze "recommended" for a make by the antifreeze manufacturer, usually the cheapest I could find, or close to the cheapest. So, I don't really know if there are proven best antifreeze fluid in the market (like synthetic coolant?) for my "new" 2011 Edge SEL FWD 3.5L.

 

What type of antifreeze fluid and procedure would you recommend? Owner's manual recommends change at 160K Km; I'm at 164K Km and therefore overdue. I'm planning to change it this weekend. Please keep in mind that, if possible, I would like to do things the cheapest way without compromising quality. I don't need to do the absolute very best; I just need to do the best cost effective.

 

Your suggestion and advise is greatly appreciated in advance.

 

Thank you WWWPerfA_ZN0W and everyone!

 

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WWWPerfA_ZN0W

Ford Edge Legal Resident

• Edge Platinum Member
• 8,007 posts

• Region:U.S. Northeast
• Location:Maryland
• Edge's Year:Decline

Posted Today, 01:40 PM

Fluid film for exterior surface rust protection. Not sure about treating drilled areas or the insides of panels. Paint/dielectric grease/quality rubber grommets/???

 

Antifreeze/coolant should be changed out regularly, at the very LATEST at Ford's recommended intervals, I think first change is 105K miles, remainder every 50K miles thereafter. I would go so far as to say the FIRST change and EVERY change should be at 50K-60K miles or every 80-100K kilometers. A commonly available tester does not test the additives in the coolant, just the specific gravity. You can get coolant strips, but they STILL will not test the additives. Easy enough to change out the coolant, just do it.

 

Trans fluid: Ford oversells the life of the fluid, saying it will go 150K miles. Yeah? Do you see them offering warranty past 150K miles. That will be the day. Anyhoo, same recommendation as coolant. Every 50-60K miles. And if it has not been changed at 150K+ miles, change immediately, and then at 30K miles after, then resume 50-60K mile changes. Again, additives. They get depleted, crud builds up, gums up sensors, prevents smooth operation, ultimately wearing down the mechanicals unnecessarily.

 

Engine oil: Synthetic Blend is "good enough", it does work well in the naturally aspirated engines. Although at higher mileage, past 100K, I would definitely move up to full synthetic brand name oil. Forced induction engines? Full synthetic all the way. If you start using "High Mileage" oils, it is a one way street, you cannot go back to regular oil So NOT recommended as routine maintenance. Use the Motorcraft filters, they get oil the quickest to every part of the engine on startup. Rattlefree operation FTW!

 

Headlights: Use high output halogens, I assume you do not have HIDs due to being in Canada? H9 bulbs can be substituted in some applications for higher output. Not sure how the assembly will do with the extra heat of the H9.

 

My short answer to your snapshot

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Edited September 27, 2017 by Edgingage

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

If you are going to COMPLETELY flush the coolant system, you can choose to use Motorcraft Specialty Green coolant, OR one of the brand name universal extended life coolants from Prestone, Peak, and Zerex. I think Zerex is the most favored of these 3.

 

If you plan to only drain the radiator, which I recommend AGAINST this first time around, then ONLY use Motorcraft Specialty Green coolant. This first time around, please make sure to COMPLETELY flush the coolant. This gives you a known starting point.

 

Always use distilled water when flushing the coolant or when topping off or making 50/50 mix from concentrate.

 

As to what procedure specifically to use for flushing the coolant, there are a few different ways to do it.

[Edgingage]

Distilled water is not a problem. I actually use reverse-osmosis distilled water (better, closer to pure water than just distilled water).

 

Now, I don't know about the Motocraft coolant, but Mopar coolant (Chrysler OEM genuine parts), indicates that you can mix it from 50/50 up to a max 70/30 coolant/water to achieve both a higher freezing point and a higher boiling point and more corrosion protection. I always mixed it that way: 70/30.

 

Is this advisable to do with the Motorcraft coolant? Will it give more corrosion protection, lower freezing point and higher boiling point as well if mixed 70/30 instead of 50/50?

 

And just thinking ahead: you also advised to use water when topping up. Is it better to top up with coolant instead? I always do/did that, topping up with concentrated or diluted coolant instead of water.

 

If you recommend a complete flush this time around, I'll probably ask the dealer to do it, but I've heard/read that Ford dealer uses tap water instead of distilled water to mix it up (?). If that's the true case, then I'll probably buy the concentrate from them, mix it up at home and bring it back for them to use it in the flush...

 

Thanks once again for your valuable advise.

Edited September 27, 2017 by Edgingage

[enigma-2]

Adding to above, I remember when the dealer changed the coolant in my car (they changed from one color to another, don't recall which), they told me they had to use a neutralizer after the drain and before they used the new fluid.

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

Reverse osmosis is not distilled water, it will still leave contaminants/particulates behind, assuming it doesn't add any based on your particular setup. Only distillation provides PURE water. There is a difference between what is acceptable to humans and what is acceptable to machines.

 

Yes, coolant mixing works on the same principle, so if you want to use 70/30 you can. The Ford official recommendation will of course be 50/50, but it does allow for different mixes, based on local climate.

 

These charts are for ethylene glycol based coolant:

 

If you have the coolant handy, of course top it up with coolant. If you do not, use ONLY distilled water. Not tap water, not RO water, DISTILLED water. Very important.

 

Yes, let the dealer do the flush, but make sure they use distilled water, not tap water. You can provide the premixed coolant, that is a great idea. But the flushing process is generally done only with distilled water, so maybe bring distilled water bottles along. We can buy this water by the gallon here in the US pretty cheaply, often 80 cents per gallon or even less. Plan on buying 5 gallons at a minimum for them to use.

 

As far as the neutralizer enigma mentioned, I don't see a Ford product like that.

https://www.fordparts.com/Products/Chemicals-EngineProducts-Coolants.aspx

 

This is Ford's flush chemical:

https://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubricants.com/main/product.asp?product=Premium%20Cooling%20System%20Flush&category=A/C%20and%20Engine%20Cooling%20Products

Fast flush formulation

Compatible with all coolant types

Contains no petroleum distillates

Use to flush engine cooling system whenever coolant is changed or repairs are required

Does not require the use of a neutralizer

Safe for aluminum water pumps

 

I have attached a document that shows how Ford recommends flushing out old coolant and putting in new. It is for a corrosion-related recall on older MYs, but the process is what should be focused on, starting pg 8 or so.

R09M043__2007-2009 Edge MKX Cooling System Corrosion_Service Procedure ORIGINAL.pdf

Edited September 27, 2017 by WWWPerfA_ZN0W

[Edgingage]

Hey folks,

 

Thanks for your replies and info. Homework continues. LOL

 

Yes, owner's manual states that the antifreeze for Canada should be of an orange color BUT IF it's dark green already in the system do NOT change it back. I went to Ford dealer to ask about that and they told me they only use the dark green color here (?).

 

WWWPerfA_ZN0W, first, a correction on an error from my part: the water I've used for mixing and toping coolants it's a result of a double process named Reverse Osmosis (RO) AND Deionized (DI) water (not Distilled water as I previously wrote). I'd have to do some extra reading and/or consult with the specialists where I've procured that water regarding this processes (RO/DI water) but my understanding is that they upgraded the system from Distilled water to RO/DI water because the result of the latter process it's a purer water with a much more higher quality compared to just Distilled water, precisely to be used in a bunch of automated and precision instruments and analyzers and for the formulation of medical devises under a very tight and strict regulations by the FDA and other regulatory bodies. They test the water quarterly (four times a year) for a whole bunch of different parameters, organics and inorganics, and they all have to come under very tight specifications and very very low concentrations, IF any content other than H and O, at all! LOL. In summary, from what I heard, that water cannot have any presence of chemicals of any kind, or organic material of any kind. Otherwise, the whole plant has to be shut down and therefore the business lost. Distilled water is not as cheap here but not crazily expensive either, although sometimes goes on sale. If you still think that Distilled water is more appropriate than RO/DI water, I'll go for it.

 

And also thanks for the doc describing the Ford-recommended flushing protocol. It's overwhelming for me. By the time I buy all the tools, utensils and parts I'll need, plus the inexperienced time I'll need to use, plus the risk of something going wrong for my inexperience and then ending up bringing it to the dealer to repair my damage anyways, it's not going to be much cheaper than paying the dealer for the whole job. I thought there was a simpler, middle-of-the-road process that could get me bye without the risk of a corroded line or a water pump failure. So, oh boy, this never ends...

 

I start to wonder why I came back to Ford. I was looking for a simple/low-maintenance comfy vehicle, not a headache... LOL. I should have looked for a Journey...

 

Thank you all!

Edited September 27, 2017 by Edgingage

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

Well then, I will stop pouring out the information, LOL. It can be overwhelming. I am sure you will figure out what needs to be done, it really is not complicated, it just SOUNDS that way. Anyhoo ...

[Edgingage]

Don't stop pouring info! LOL The information you've been giving me is DEFINITIVELY of a tremendous value. Eye (and mind) opening!

 

It's just that I'm not mechanically inclined and I'll have to start gathering tools and utensils, first, and then scratching my head on how to do it right, and still concerned that things could go wrong anyway. LOL

 

I DO appreciate your info, suggestions, advice and time doing so. Calling the dealer tomorrow for an appointment for an antifreeze change (I couldn't get thru today). Engine air filter dissembling scheduled this weekend for me to check for oil leak (thank you!). Still bunch of questions for me to post in these fora (air filters, lighting, tires width, rim offset, body corrosion prevention/treatment, weather strips and windows and door hinges maintenance/lubrication, Sync stuff (My Key, My Touch, My Ford, My Etc... ), navigation/GPS updates (one tread at a time LOL), and other things I'm sure will come to mind once I continue getting answers, suggestions and advice from great people like you and others around these fora. So, stay tuned. LOL.

 

Thanks a lot and take care.

Edited September 28, 2017 by Edgingage

[chefduane]

A coolant change is not something to agonize over. A simple drain and fill (with appropriate fluid of course) on a regular basis works wonders and is something that few car owners ever actually do. Hmmm... oil changes on a regular interval, coolant flush/fill on a regular interval. Transaxle/PTU drain/fill intervals very important for AWD's. Are we seeing a pattern here? Regular interval maintenance is the key to vehicle longevity. Heck, I even suck out my brake and PS fluid once a year and re-fill the reservoir just because. Still looking for the blinker fluid tank, tho.

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

The blinker fluid tank is located atop the cranium. Out of sight, out of mind.

[Edgingage]

OK, chefduane, I agree but I need some clarification, please: you wrote that "a coolant change is... a simple drain and fill...", but further you wrote "a coolant flush/fill"... If it's just a drain and fill, you could help directing me to a GOOD drawing, graphic or video showing how to do it (among all sort of junk and garbage popping up the internet), if you really want to help.

 

I should be able to do a coolant drain and fill, but I'm hesitant to do a coolant flush with all those houses in and out and the related loosing and tightening (as shown in the PDF doc posted above). I was setting myself to do a drain and fill, but then I searched and read here and there that a drain and fill was not good. Is it good or not? I also read that the next coolant change after the initial done by Ford dealer has a much shorter interval because Ford dealer uses tap water instead of distilled water. Is that true or not? Those things may be very simple for most of you who know more than the basic ins and outs, but it IS very confusing for first-timers, like me. What's true? what's not true? what's correct? what's not correct? what's simple? what could end up screwing my car? I'm not kind to pay the dealer for things that I KNOW I can do, but I also think that it's better for me to pay less to have the dealer done what I don't know how than paying more after screwing my car myself (and having to bring it to the dealer to finish up anyway).

 

You write things like the blinker fluid tank... Is that a "joke", same as the animation post, same as changing the oil every 3K? If they are intended to be "jokes", your comments are not helping, just confusing so, thanks!

 

People whose English is not their first language don't get language jokes... I don't know if you know any other communication language...

 

Thanks for everyone's real help. Always very appreciated.

Edited September 28, 2017 by Edgingage

[chefduane]

There are numerous posts about doing coolant drain and fills. You can search here or on utoob and find them. It just involves pulling the cover off the reservoir and radiator and then opening the petcock below the radiator and letting the radiator drain. If your Edge doesn't have a petcock you just pull the lower radiator hose. It doesn't get ALL the coolant as there will still be some captured on the water jacket galleries and maybe the water pump. You could get one of those flush kits at a auto parts store if you like. DO NOT let the fluid drain on to the street or pavement. It is a pollutant and should be recycled the same as oil. It is also very toxic to animals and pets, especially dogs.

 

It might be helpful to go an autoparts store and just look around to get yourself familiar with what's available. After a complete flush and fill, then simple drain and fills would be fine. But again, the key is regular changes. You are in the middle of the learning curve and some things you just have to start doing to learn them. I also might suggest buying a good manual for your car. Do you have one? Many questions can be answered there. Haynes or Chiltons are good ones for basic reference and they have pictures of most all procedure you want to do.

 

English is my native language although I am also fluent in Spanish and speak some culinary French.

 

PerfA: Thanks for the location of the blinker fluid tank (above the cranium.) Umm... so where might the cranium be located?

Edited September 28, 2017 by chefduane

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

Not telling, LOL. I got dibs!

PerfA: Thanks for the location of the blinker fluid tank (above the cranium.) Umm... so where might the cranium be located?

 

 

[Edgingage]

Chefduane:

 

I have already done all (or most of) that you kindly, friendly and helpfully suggested: numerous posts (yes, good ones and bad ones, I guess you suggest the good ones, right? which ones?); I have searched here and youtube (did I say that already?); does my edge has a petcock, do you know? I don't know; I know a drain doesn't get it all out, is that good to do then?; To get one of "those" flush kits, is that what PerfA posted in a PDF above, is that a flush kit? I din't know I could get all those things together in one kit; that's really helpful to know so, THANKS (really), I didn't know; I do know about the pollutant and poisoning part of the antifreeze but thanks for the reminder (honestly); Should I do a complete flush and fill or just a drain and fill? Yes, I know that some things I just have to start doing to learn them, but I don't have a junk car to "experiment". I think that's what this (and other fora) was about: to show short cuts to people and help them avoid mistakes already made by other people. There're different ways to learn: some people are supersmart and figure out things by themselves; other people are dumm (like me) and need to be told how to do things. I did buy a Haynes; I can suggest you a good book of molecular biology; I'm sure you'll understand it all just from opening up.

 

If you really know more than one language, then you should know better that all type of jokes are not welcome.

 

Honestly, I have been reading all your "contributions" in the only three treads I've posted so far, and honestly, without intention to offend you, I can't really see a real contribution to my learning curve. So, if you really have nothing helpful to contribute to my questions, please go make your jokes to some other treads. I just bought a car that I'm not fully familiar with, I would like to treat it well to last me longer, and I will ALWAYS appreciate people who takes their precious time to help others; I do in a different field.

 

The cranium might be surrounding your smart brain. Take good care of it, and please allow the others who really want to help me out. Thank you.

Edited September 28, 2017 by Edgingage

[addisonm06]

O The Blinker Fluid... might as well tackle that while i do my oil this weekend!

[addisonm06]

I must say that finding someones comments helpful is dependent on ones opinions and interpretations. While one may not find any insight in a comment, another may find very useful.

 

I reread again what Chef wrote; if you cannot see helpful information regarding "routine maintenance" and fluid changes regularly (and procedure to do it), than maybe leasing rather than buying is a better option.

 

If your interpretations of a comment are not helpful, than simply ignore it, but by asking people to not post their opinions or knowledge can be depriving and stealing from others.

 

I am not looking for a bickering conversation on your thread, but your comments were uncalled for and inappropriate for people trying to help. If you cannot find humor in little things in life, than i suggest not using the internet.

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

Lets all keep the discusiion focused, folks. Not saying who's right or wrong, just that we want to leave a positive "legacy" for future forum users . Appreciate your understanding!

 

Yes, the radiator has a plastic petcock, use care when opening/tightening,

No, it is not fully removable (without pinching it) so it wont just fall out,

Yes, it can be messy draining the radiator,

No, you will not be able to drain ALL the coolant at one time in a drain/fill operation,

Yes, you should have the dealer perform the flush you can then drain/fill on your own at say yearly intervals, but it is your choice if you don't trust the dealer

 

A flush is the best way to go because of its thoroughness. HOWEVER, if you want to drain/fill yourself, repeat the operation at least 4 times to get a near complete coolant change. Use ONLY Motorcraft coolant for drain/fills. You do NOT want to mix in other brands of coolants using drain/fill. The chemistries are different.

 

As to which coolant, it will be either Motorcraft Specialty Green or Orange. Use the color that is currently in your vehicle. If uncertain, take clear pics and attach the pics to a post here. IIRC, The overflow/degas bottle cap should indicate which one to use, albeit figuratively. Do NOT mix different color coolants. They are NOT 100% compatible.

[IWRBB]

I've used tap water before, it's never caused any problems. We have pretty good water though- it comes from an aquifer and they only have to treat it for hardness and put some chlorine in it. If your tap water is not very good, or you are on well water, go for the pre-mix or buy water at the store. The need for distilled water is blown way out of proportion to any real importance it may actually have. Some guys say using water without any ions is detrimental and will attack the metal in the system. I know DI water systems have to use stainless or plastic piping in industrial applications to keep the water from eating the pipes.

 

The glycol in the antifreeze is what actually causes corrosion in a car's cooling system, and the coolant manufacturers put additives in the coolant to prevent that. The additives get used up over time, which is why you need to change your coolant. The glycol itself is good forever essentially.

 

As far as disposal, I drain it right onto my driveway and hose any puddles at the bottom of the driveway into the lawn. Never a problem. Both propylene glycol and ethylene glycol are readily biodegradable as far as I know. If you are paranoid about it, just dump it down the drain and send it to the WWTP.

 

Unless the cooling system is nasty already, which I'm sure yours is not- I also think there's no real need to do a full flush if you don't have the ability to do so. Yea, it's better, and ideal to do it that way if possible, but the drain and refill of just the radiator will suffice. Do that every couple years and you'll be fine. If you are worried about not completely flushing it and don't have the ability to do so, pay for a full flush now, and then do a drain/fill of the radiator every few years.

 

I need to change the coolant in at least three of my vehicles now that I think about it...

[chefduane]

Look, at some point you gotta' start helping yourself. So climb under the car and look for a petcock, drain the fluid, and put new in. After that, pull the oil pan plug and let the oil drain, then take the filter off and replace it with a new one. Refill with any oil you want, use 3-in-1 oil if you so desire. The go get some gas. You do know how to do that, right?

 

And with that, I am done with this thread. And that ain't no joke.

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

. Allllrighty then ...

[macbwt]

Draining the coolant is messy. It is a plastic nut on the bottom or the radiator for the 2011+ Do not pull it out as it is attached. Not a real clean way to drain it.

[macbwt]

General fluid maintenance and even parts replacement on the Edge is a simple task. The KEY to a viable, good running Ford Edge is to maintain the fluids. I mean replace them far more frequently than FORD recommends. Then your Edge will last a long time.

[Edgingage]

Buff, finally off!, ...after a very long and tough day at work!!

 

Thanks folks for your valuable information and helpful suggestions. I really appreciate them, honestly. In the very few days I’ve been subscribed to this amazing fora I have learned more things about cars (and life in general) than the whole 20 years driving. You won’t believe how many things I NOW know I’ve done wrong, really wrong with my cars, and of course now they make perfect sense and are good explanations of why that happened! LMAO.

 

IWRBB, I’m hooked up to city water, which is good water, even safe for people to drink it straight from the tap (if that means anything good to use it in cars LOL), but I found very interesting this undated 5-page doc from Utah (see link below):

https://web.archive.org/web/20100701012047/http://www.hazardouswaste.utah.gov/SWBranch/Adobe/P2Factsheets/AntifreezeRecyclingFactSheet.pdf

 

macbwt, I’m late for my first fluid change; it’s supposed to have it done 4K Km away), but I will catch up with all of them (thanks!). I asked the dealer about the coolant twice in separate occasions: the first time I asked (when I was checking the car before buying it) a Service Advisor told me the coolant and spark plugs were changed at 160k Km. The second time I asked (after I bought the car and I asked for a written service report) a different Service Advisor told me the coolant wasn’t done. That’s why I’m here. LOL

 

WWWPerfA_ZN0W, it’s not that I don’t trust the dealer, please. I basically read through the forum and reproduced some comments I found in these fora where some people were stating that Ford dealers use tap water for the coolant flush. I don’t know; I haven’t yet had any real experience with Ford dealers (positive or negative) as I haven’t requested any actual maintenance service from them yet, ...only a vehicle safety inspection pre-buying my car, and I think the report was good.

 

I’ll have some idea and opinion of my own after the flush.

 

Thank you very much, folks, for your courtesy, suggestions, explanations, help and overall your time to answer my questions. Greatly appreciated!

 

PS: More questions coming soon after! LOL Thanks in advance; let’s take care of each other.

Edited September 29, 2017 by Edgingage

[akirby]

PS: More questions coming soon after! LOL Thanks in advance; let’s take care of each other.

 

Let me jump in here and say that most of us love answering questions and helping folks but at some point the volume of your posts become an issue and folks will either get snippy or just stop reading your posts altogether.

 

My friendly suggestion is to stop over-analyzing things to death, do a bit more research on your own and lower the word count. You'll be much more likely to get good fast responses and less likely that folks get snippy or simply start ignoring your posts.

[IWRBB]

 

IWRBB, I’m hooked up to city water, which is good water, even safe for people to drink it straight from the tap (if that means anything good to use it in cars LOL), but I found very interesting this undated 5-page doc from Utah (see link below):

https://web.archive.org/web/20100701012047/http://www.hazardouswaste.utah.gov/SWBranch/Adobe/P2Factsheets/AntifreezeRecyclingFactSheet.pdf

 

So the three things they cite as issues with dumping coolant:

 

1) The whole animal/kids drinking it thing. That's well known, and is not an issue in my case as it mainly runs into the cracks between the driveway slabs. Anything that makes it to the bottom gets hosed into grass. Nothing is puddled, nothing is drank by animals. It's just not possible unless a kid is licking the soil as I'm hosing it off. They have more issues than a bit of glycol in their system if they are in my lawn licking the soil.

 

2) Lead contamination. Not an issue with anything made in the last 20+ years. Lead/tin solder in radiators is a thing of the past. Aluminum and iron should be all the coolant is exposed to nowadays, and they are not toxic.

 

3) High BOD. If it is dumped right into a lake or stream, sure- that's a problem. If it is dumped down a sewer that goes to the WWTP, a couple gallons of glycol is not going to cause any issues with the WWTP. Might as well stop shitting in your toilet if you are concerned about sending high BOD material to the WWTP.

 

If I owned a shop that went through thousands of gallons of coolant a year, of course I would get it recycled. However, a couple gallons of coolant drained from a modern vehicle which is then diluted by a bunch of water from a garden hose, running into my lawn once every 5 years is not an issue.

 

From a total environmental impact standpoint- I actually feel that what I do is the "greenest" way to dispose of it. It gets eaten by bacteria in the soil and that's that. Recycling it has an environmental cost that cannot be ignored. Used coolant doesn't move itself- so fuel is burned to move it. What burns the fuel? Trucks. Would that truck even exist if it wasn't needed to haul used coolant around? The environmental impacts/benefits of recycling are not as simple as people think. To reiterate- I don't think you should just dump a shit ton of coolant on the ground and just call it good, but dispersing it into the soil in very limited amounts separated by long time periods is not a problem, and is likely the most environmentally sound way of disposing of it when you look at the total picture.