Type and grade of engine oil change for 2011 Edge SEL FWD 3.5L

[Edgingage]

Hello:

 

I posted these questions in the wrong subforum (2015+); sorry. I deleted my post there and repost it here. Hope it's OK.

 

Hello folks:

 

New to the forum and coming back to Ford 20 years later (my first car was an 88 Mercury).

 

I'll try to combine two questions in one: oil type (100%/full synthetic, conventional or a blend) and oil grade (5W20, 0W20, 5W10 if exists).

 

I'm in Canada. My second question is more intended to folks living/driving in Canada and northern USA where climate conditions are more similar, but of course anybody can pitch in ideas, suggestions and hands-on experience.

 

First question:

Just got a 2011 Edge SEL FWD 3.5L from a Nissan dealership with a service sticker indicating next oil change in December (at whatever kilometers; I don't drive a lot so, time always comes before mileage for me). Anyway, I visited the Ford dealership to ask and compare prices for me to buy 5W20 full synthetic oil as the owner's manual indicates (I do my oil changes). To my surprise, they told me they do NOT have full synthetic oil in stock (has to be ordered); they only have blend oil in stock because that's what they normally use for the oil change (I'm still surprised). They went on to explain me that, "older" engines benefits from blend oils because the pistons are worn and the "tolerance" (or other technical term) is greater and therefore the pistons will not be well lubricated at start up with synthetic oil". I don't pretend to argue about this; I basically would like your opinion, suggestion or advise on the type of oil (synthetic, conventional or blend) you normally use or would use in a 2011 Edge with 162 000 km (~100 000 miles) on a 3.5L engine. Will I be wasting money, or what is worse, not protecting enough the engine, if I use full synthetic for oil changes?

 

Second question (for the bears

As far as I know, it's or has been a very common practice to change oil grade before or when the winter arrives with its freezing temperatures. For instance, several manufactures and/or shops were recommending to change from 10W30 to 5W30, or from 5W40 to 5W30 for the winter (less viscose oil). My Edge owner's manual reads 5W20. My question: should I change to 0W20 (or 5W10 if exists) for the winter months?

 

I did some search and couldn't find answers specific to my concerns. I hope posting these questions is OK.

 

Thanks in advance.

Edited September 15, 2017 by Edgingage

[omar302]

Just go with Ford's recommendation, 5w-20 blend. Fully synthetic is definitely better, but not required. But whatever they told you about fully synthetic I believe is non-sense. I actually remember that the reason fully synthetic oil wasn't recommended for older engine was due to its ability to clean out build ups around worn engine seals and hence causing leaks.

[akirby]

What omar said. The factory synthetic blend 5W-20 is great for use year round. Change it every 6-9 months if you're not exceeding the mileage limit.

[Edgingage]

Hum, I probably didn't express well myself when posting the intention of my questions. I really appreciate your both prompt replies; I just need to make sure that the intention of my questions gets thru.

 

Just go with Ford's recommendation, 5w-20 blend. Fully synthetic is definitely better, but not required. But whatever they told you about fully synthetic I believe is non-sense. I actually remember that the reason fully synthetic oil wasn't recommended for older engine was due to its ability to clean out build ups around worn engine seals and hence causing leaks.

Omar, with all respect: you drive in Qatar; you don't get freezing-temperature winter there, if I remember geography correctly. I know what Ford recommends, and I also know what Chrysler recommends, and I'm not questioning or disagreeing the manufacturer's recommendations (who am I for that?); despite those recommendations, here in Canada, people and shops tend to switch to a less viscose oil during the winter months (it's or was a very common practice for the specific weather conditions). I don't know if that still is a common practice with newer vehicles... (technology changes, obviously). My question is mostly intended to those people experiencing driving under freezing temperatures (please, Omar, don't take offense; it's just a complete different environment, believe me; I used to live for many many years in a 28-38 Celsius degree almost all-year-around climate; a complete difference when the same number gets a minus sign "-" in front! .

 

What omar said. The factory synthetic blend 5W-20 is great for use year round. Change it every 6-9 months if you're not exceeding the mileage limit.

Akirby, I know the factory recommended oil has to be great to use all year around; I don't question that. What I really would like to know, the intention of my question is that if changing to a less viscose oil during freezing temperatures is a appropriate, is a good practice, has any advantage, or not. Also, the second intention of my question is to check prices for oils of similar grades and quality. I might be able to buy oil at the dept store for half the price of Fords, like Castrol Edge, Mobil 1, etc. But I need to know if anybody living up north has done that (I don't know where you're located, Akirby) ...or all the Edge owners just "go by the book"?

 

Thank you both again for your replies.

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

In the Middle East, due to extreme heat, 10W30 is recommended by Ford. In extreme cold, I assume the 0W20 would be quite suitable. But for MOST people, 5W20 works perfectly. Going full synthetic gives you a little more leeway.

 

Look up the SAE charts on viscosities to see suitability.

Edited September 15, 2017 by WWWPerfA_ZN0W

[omar302]

(please, Omar, don't take offense; it's just a complete different environment, believe me; I used to live for many many years in a 28-38 Celsius degree almost all-year-around climate; a complete difference when the same number gets a minus sign "-" in front! .

 

Non taken. Just like what WWWPerfA_ZN0W stated, Ford recommends 10W-30 here. I know it is much colder there, but doesn't the engine still run hot? At its operating temperature? Wouldn't it overheat without coolant or cooling fans? The engine's temperature is still very hot even in cold climates.

[akirby]

5W-20 is almost like water already so yes it's suitable for really cold temps. Just remember that Ford tests the factory 5w-20 in places like YellowKnife where the winter temps are -26 C. 0W-20 would offer a slight improvement in the coldest of days but it's not necessary.

 

It's also not very expensive compared to other conventional oils and synthetic blends and is cheaper than full synthetics.

[PaulSchott]

My company uses F-series trucks in Canada for railroad track testing equipment. We test rail at -40. I will ask about what we use for oil. I use what Ford recommends which is 5W20. I'm in Connecticut and our winters are moderate. I use Mobile 1 full synthetic. I do my oil changes at around 6000 miles when it just starts to get darker. This car has always had full synthetic.

[chefduane]

Here in Texas it can get 100+ in the summer and then snow a few times in the winter. Certainly not like Canada of course, but freezing temps none-the-less. I use 5w-20 Mobil-1 year round with a Mobil-1 Extended Performance filter changed at 5k intervals. No problems, leaks, etc.. here. I agree with the comments about changing from pure dino to a full synth can cause problems with some higher mileage engines (dislodge gunk, leaks, etc..) but if the engine has had regular oil changes with a good quality (dino, blend, or synth) oil you should have no problems. You also might check 'bobistheoilguy.com' for additional information. That site is pretty much the 'go to' net source for oil info. And this group of course.

[Edgingage]

Hi folks:

 

All info, comments, opinions and suggestions are very valuable, really, and appreciated, to the point that I definitively have some more home work to do

 

As I bought my Edge used, I cannot guarantee 100% the type of oil that has been put in. However, the dealer's records indicate that most of the oil changes have been done at the dealership. And I write "most" because, on records, oil change intervals range from 19 months to 6 months. Therefore, I can assume that at least the last few changes (every 6-8 months) have been using the Ford blend 5W-20, although the last one apparently was done at a different dealership: Nissan (where I bought it). So, they probably used their own (which I don't know what type it was, but I could ask) instead of Ford's.

 

Base on all your valuable comments, my question now is: assuming this car has used blend 5W-20 all the time (the worst casecenario, I think), do you think it's worthy for me to use full synthetic oil? Despite having a lot of miles on it, the car is in immaculate condition, bumper to bumper, roof to tires. So, I could (just could) assume that, when not by the dealer, the owner probably used the "best" oil (for his/her concept, which we know it may vary from person to person ) to change.

 

I don't mind to expend the extra bucks in a better quality engine oil, IF it's truly a better choice (full synthetic from now on vs previously blend), the same that I won't mind to replace the trans and antifreeze fluids with the best quality products, including synthetics, if available and truly better products. I know a failure in those systems are costly repairs and I'm paranoiac about that type of failures. So, I happily prefer to expend on high quality oils and fluids than taking the chance of a failure/breakdown, if it depends on me.

 

I'll have another related questions (coming from a reply comment to my introduction in the new members forum): best oil filters, but I'll wait for your replies on this current subject first (I don't want to mess up with these subjects

 

Thank you all!

Edited September 15, 2017 by Edgingage

[akirby]

Honestly, there is no reason NOT to use the factory motor craft synthetic blend 5W-20 and motorcraft filters. Especially given your low mileage.

 

Some people prefer full synthetic and other brand oil filters but I've seen no evidence that it's necessary even in higher mileage vehicles.

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

Don't go by looks of the vehicle. Perception is all too-important these days. Few pay true attention to the heart of the vehicle, and dealer servicing can be just as abominable as those quicklube places. Better to not take a chance, better to renew all fluids so you have a good baseline.

 

If temps don't go below -20F, stick with 5W20. Most wear occurs at startup, so if you are in stopngo situations a lot, then might be worth going to 0W20. Otherwise, with a lot of highwaytype driving between stops and starts, stick with 5W20.

 

Full synthetic oil is noticeably better than synthetic blend, the engine will run quieter and may even return better mpg. You cannot really tell just by looking at oil whether it is worn out or not, you certainly do not want to run it to that point. Full synthetic flows easier than synthetic blend oil (remember 5W20 is not a hard and fast number, it is a RANGE), so it should do better at lower temps as well. Amsoil Signature, Redline, and I think Royal Purple are true full synthetics among the more major brand names. But really you can do quite well with any of the "full synthetic" 5W20s readily available at WalMart (can't advocate store brands) - Pennzoil, Mobil1, QS (UD), Valvoline, Castrol etc.

 

Filter is where I am a stickler for Motorcraft. It does not last nearly as long as the full synth media filters out there, but nary a rattle at startup. And it cleans quite well. For 3$, yeah ... I am not going to question it.

[chefduane]

Yes, the only reason I go with M1 oil and filter is it gives me an enhanced feeling of well being. Placebo effect as such, and I psychologically rationalize the added expense by allowing myself to believe the M1+M1 filter is the best combo for my car. Is it >really< that much better than a blend with a good filter? Prolly not. But I feel better about doing it.

 

Regular oil changes at reasonable intervals is the key, not necessarily the type of oil/filter used.

[macbwt]

Use the 5W20 for your driving. The weather you will endure will not cause issues either way. I used 0W20 once and suffered some metal wear in my wife's Edge and stopped using it.

 

I use full synthetic on both vehicles and one has about 210,000 miles with no issues other than the valve cover blow by, but that is about to be remedied soon.

[enigma-2]

Couple of years ago (or so) I asked my dealer the same question about blend. Basically they told me the same thing, that it was the best compromise for a modern engine. I had used synthetic in my last car with no problems, and have none with the blend in my current MKX.

 

Agree with the others, good quality 5W20 blend. Best of both worlds and save some money.

 

Stick with Motorcraft filters (rated top on Tomstheoilguy.com).

 

As your in Canada, don't you use an engine heater?

[Edgingage]

Hi folks!

 

I didn't get lost! ...I was doing some home work (or trying to).

 

Non taken. Just like what WWWPerfA_ZN0W stated, Ford recommends 10W-30 here. I know it is much colder there, but doesn't the engine still run hot? At its operating temperature? Wouldn't it overheat without coolant or cooling fans? The engine's temperature is still very hot even in cold climates.

Omar302, something pending that I wanted to clarify, and actually WWWPerfA_ZN0W (below) clarified a point you're missing: of course the engine still runs very hot, at its operating temp, even when the outside temp is below 20-30 Celsius degrees; and it certainly will overheat without coolant or cooling fans. The point you're missing is the critical point: at start up. When the car has been parked outside for a few hours at freezing temp, like when I leave work, and you start it, you can hear the metals grinding if you start the car being beside or inside it. Most people do it by remote control quite a few meters away and they never hear that metal-to-metal noise at start up...

 

Don't go by looks of the vehicle. Perception is all too-important these days. Few pay true attention to the heart of the vehicle, and dealer servicing can be just as abominable as those quicklube places. Better to not take a chance, better to renew all fluids so you have a good baseline.

 

If temps don't go below -20F, stick with 5W20. Most wear occurs at startup, so if you are in stopngo situations a lot, then might be worth going to 0W20. Otherwise, with a lot of highwaytype driving between stops and starts, stick with 5W20.

 

Full synthetic oil is noticeably better than synthetic blend, the engine will run quieter and may even return better mpg. You cannot really tell just by looking at oil whether it is worn out or not, you certainly do not want to run it to that point. Full synthetic flows easier than synthetic blend oil (remember 5W20 is not a hard and fast number, it is a RANGE), so it should do better at lower temps as well. Amsoil Signature, Redline, and I think Royal Purple are true full synthetics among the more major brand names. But really you can do quite well with any of the "full synthetic" 5W20s readily available at WalMart (can't advocate store brands) - Pennzoil, Mobil1, QS (UD), Valvoline, Castrol etc.

 

Filter is where I am a stickler for Motorcraft. It does not last nearly as long as the full synth media filters out there, but nary a rattle at startup. And it cleans quite well. For 3$, yeah ... I am not going to question it.

WWWPerfA_ZN0W, my driving is actually stop and go (no highway at all); just inner city (public trans is scarce, sporadic, infrequent, in case you wonder why I bother to drive). On top of that, I mostly drive my 04 Trepid. Therefore, the Edge will see weekends and a few highway trips and therefore much less than 10K a year (as long as the Trepid holds Amsoil and Redline are very expensive around here; Royal Purple 5W20 is slightly less expensive but, interesting, it doesn't meet Ford WSS-M2930-A (IF that matters). I can get (and stock up on) Pennzoil, QS, Valvoline, Mobil 1 and Castrol Edge in local stores at very similar or even cheaper prices than the Ford's Motorcraft oil. And that's one of the reason of my question: I'm not really doubling up the money when buying full syn comparing with Ford's Motorcraft oil blend; I'm actually paying about the same for Castrol Edge EP and Movil 1 5W20, the later having a claim that it "pours at oil temp as low as -42⁰C"! Both Castrol Edge EP and Mobil 1 meet or exceed the requirements of Ford WSS-M2C930-A, whatever it means (I don't really know if that's important or not).

About the filters, I just thought in a similar way. But let me say something else first to make sense for the readers: if what I wrote above is OK for everybody (or most of everybody I'm planning to use Mobil 1 for the 4-5 winter months (pours at up to -42 degrees) and Castrol Edge EP for the remaining 7-8 months. Then, I thought to use Mobil 1 EP filter with Mobil 1 oil, and Ultra Synthetic Fram filter with Castrol Edge EP oil. Do you folks see anything wrong with that? Or I should still use Ford's Motocraft filter with Mobil 1 and/or Castrol Edge EP oils? I went to the recommended site (Tomstheoilguy.com) for oil, but I felt overwhelmed and couldn't find the pertinent info to learn if I should use Ford's Motocraft filter above Mobil 1 EP or Ultra Synthetic Fram filters.

 

Yes, the only reason I go with M1 oil and filter is it gives me an enhanced feeling of well being. Placebo effect as such, and I psychologically rationalize the added expense by allowing myself to believe the M1+M1 filter is the best combo for my car. Is it >really< that much better than a blend with a good filter? Prolly not. But I feel better about doing it.

 

Regular oil changes at reasonable intervals is the key, not necessarily the type of oil/filter used.

Chefduane, I have the same idea (Mobil 1 EP oil and filter), but check what I wrote (above) about Mobil 1 EP 5W20 not meeting Ford requirements (not sure if that matters or not).

 

Use the 5W20 for your driving. The weather you will endure will not cause issues either way. I used 0W20 once and suffered some metal wear in my wife's Edge and stopped using it.

 

I use full synthetic on both vehicles and one has about 210,000 miles with no issues other than the valve cover blow by, but that is about to be remedied soon.

Glad (not really glad) but good to know that 0W20 gave you some issues. I already discarded after doing my homework as it doesn't meet the requirements of Ford WSS-M2C930-A, and ALSO, it doesn't pour at a temp lower than the 5W20 (I think it actually pours at -41 degrees; about the same as the 5W20 so, no extra protection for freezing temp).

Question: does the valve cover blown has anything to do with the use of synthetic oil? I'm not a mechanic, and English is not my first language so, when mechanical and English vocabulary combine I get lost at large! LOL

 

Couple of years ago (or so) I asked my dealer the same question about blend. Basically they told me the same thing, that it was the best compromise for a modern engine. I had used synthetic in my last car with no problems, and have none with the blend in my current MKX.

Agree with the others, good quality 5W20 blend. Best of both worlds and save some money.

Stick with Motorcraft filters (rated top on Tomstheoilguy.com).

As your in Canada, don't you use an engine heater?

Enigma-2, I still don't understand why blend oil is the best of both worlds. Isn't it full synthetic oil? As I explained above, in my case, it costs me about the same. And when I say about the same, I'm talking about $5/jug oil change twice a year. So, about $10 more bucks a year.

As I mentioned above, I couldn't find the pertinent info regarding Ford's Motocraft oil filter at Tomstheoilguy.com (I didn't know what to search for). Motorcraft oil filter costs $12.99 at Ford dealership; I can buy a Mobil 1 EP filter at the same price or $1-$2 cheaper, and the Ultra Synthetic FRAM filter about the same or even cheaper. Should I really use Motocraft filter above and combined with Castrol Edge EP and Mobil 1 oils? I will if you folks still recommend it.

As per the use of the engine heater, I actually have a question before I answer your question: where inside the engine compartment can I locate the power cord for the block heater? I haven't seen it...

Answering your question now: no, I (personally) don't use the block heater because... at home the car is in the garage, and at work there is nowhere to plug it in!

 

That's it for now, folks. Again, sorry for my late reply but I hope that my homework might be useful for some folks as well.

 

Let's take care all each other.

Edited September 22, 2017 by Edgingage

[omar302]

Omar302, something pending that I wanted to clarify, and actually WWWPerfA_ZN0W (below) clarified a point you're missing: of course the engine still runs very hot, at its operating temp, even when the outside temp is below 20-30 Celsius degrees; and it certainly will overheat without coolant or cooling fans. The point you're missing is the critical point: at start up. When the car has been parked outside for a few hours at freezing temp, like when I leave work, and you start it, you can hear the metals grinding if you start the car being beside or inside it. Most people do it by remote control quite a few meters away and they never hear that metal-to-metal noise at start up...

 

I understand your point. This metal sound when starting the engine I used to here it when I first started an engine after an oil change, but those were older cars were also the oil pressure light would also remain on for 1-2 seconds after the 1st start post an oil/filter change.

 

The idea of multi-viscosity oils, as far as I learned, was to cover such scenarios, for a 5W-20 oil, at cold engine startups, cold oil would act as an oil with "5" viscosity grade, then when the oil warms up it will become a "20" level.

[chefduane]

The Mobil-1 website explicitly states that their 5W20 Extended Performance it meets Ford's WSS-M2C945-A and WSS-M2C930-A specifications. Where did you see that it did not?

 

https://mobiloil.com/en/motor-oils/mobil-1/mobil-1-extended-performance

[omar302]

He was referring to the 0W-20 Mobile1, not the 5W-20.

[chefduane]

That site also states that the 0w20 meets or exceeds the Ford WSS-M2C947-A and has a pour point spec of -54C. The 5w20 lists a pour point spec of -42C. Unless winter temps are consistently below that for extended periods of time, I would think that 5w20 year round would be just fine. Or am I missing something?

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

I have run 0W20 in my Edge with no issues - full synthetic Mobil1, Mobil1 EP, Quaker State UD ... Mind you I do not have enough miles logged on any of those oils (by that I mean in the tens of thousands of miles) to give a longterm evaluation. BUT the engine did like it, and it felt "lighter" during acceleration, and gained a small bit of mpg (nothing huge). I would not worry about using 0W20 full synthetic. It is still a great step up from synthetic blend oils. I do not think you can go wrong with any of the major brand names you mentioned in synthetic oils. Very reasonably priced.

 

Pour point is only one characteristic. Look at the viscosity of the oil in the same product line. The lower the viscosity, the easier it flows, the less wear at startup. Most manufacturers do not provide the data Amsoil does, including volatility (Noack) and TBN. But what Mobil1 does provide by way of specs:

https://mobiloil.com/en/motor-oils/mobil-1/mobil-1

Amsoil Signature:

https://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g2880.pdf

 

What is also confusing is that oil specs keep evolving, as the API requirements keep evolving. See the difference in Amsoil 2013 spec sheet vs 2016 (attached). So mostly I would say choose a good full synthetic and stick with it. THEN if you want to pick a 0W20 oil, you can try it out and see if your Edge likes it. The ONLY negative I think is the volatility of the 0W20 oil may be significantly higher, almost like dino oil, compared to 5W20. Lower volatility is very good, especially for the 2011+ MYs. It will definitely help with the oil migration issue, and any other PCV related issues. I would stick with Amsoil Sig's 5W20 product instead of the 0W20 just on pure specs, but again, I would have to try and verify.

 

As far as filters, they DO make a difference, to me the most important is how fast they get oil to the engine on startup. I have tried K&N, Mobil1 EP filters in addition to Motorcraft. The ONLY one that does not rattle is Motorcraft. I will be trying the Purolator BOSS and the AFe filters maybe next year some time. I hate that rattle (timing chains). If you can find a filter that does not cause a startup rattle, then if it is full synthetic media and claims extended oil change intervals, it might be worth switching over from MC. Since you have a 2011, the IOLM is likely useless, set for 10,000 mile reminders. Go by engine hours rather than miles. I would say 100 hours is a good goal for mixed driving, not to exceed 200 for highway only driving. Blackstone Labs will be your friend to determine what is right for YOUR Edge.

 

Not sure if all Edges bound for Canadian customers get block heaters automatically.

amsoil signature oil pds 2016.pdf

Amsoil Signature Series 100% Synthetic Motor Oil.pdf

[TheWizard]

Unless the OP lives in interior New Brunswick, the winter low temperature in the Canadian Maritime provinces never gets anywhere close to -40 so the difference between 0w20 and 5W20 is a moot point. Besides, those are overnight lows and he says he has his Edge in a garage overnight anyway.

 

In all the years I've spent working in the automotive business, I can't recall ever seeing an engine failure related to oil except in cases of extreme lack of maintenance (and the occasional quick lube place that forgot to put in new oil after draining the old - it happens way more often than it should). And that's even going way back to the days of relatively poor engine tolerances and nothing but dino oil available. There's no question that full synthetic is better oil and perhaps necessary for extended change intervals but synthetic blends are very good and even dino oil will do a good job as long as it's changed regularly.

[chefduane]

Thus speaketh The Wiz and doubt not His counsel.

 

 

 

[Edgingage]

I don't know what you mean with that cartoon above, chefduane (sorry, I don't get it); but if it's about me I'm doing some more "homework", or better said, "storework" to post later.

 

For now, I DO appreciate all the comments, opinions and info contributed by EVERYBODY so far. I tried to obtain info for Castrol Edge EP and FS similar to the ones posted for for Mobil 1 and Amsoil specs, but I couldn't find those nice comparative charts or the list of specifications.

 

Meanwhile (while I finish to gather and organize the info to answer some of your questions posted above), I wonder if anybody could provide a list of similar specs for Castrol Edge EP and/or FS 0W20 and/or 5W20, particularly pouring temp? I'd really like to keep Castrol Edge in the equation, if comparable and worthy.

 

Thanks so far; stay tuned.

Edited September 23, 2017 by Edgingage

[chefduane]

No, its not about you. It was an effort at humor. All I was trying to get across was that you can do homework until the cows come home but at some point you just gotta' make a choice. Information is a good thing but don't work yourself into 'analysis paralysis.' The general consensus is a blend or full synth 0w20 or 5w20, a good filter (recommendations above), with changes done regularly should be fine.

 

PS Its an animated .gif. Click on it (if u have not) and it might clear things up.

Edited September 23, 2017 by chefduane