snmjim Posted September 2, 2017 Report Share Posted September 2, 2017 (edited) Why is it designed like this instead of fully open? What are our options for better flow? Trying to stimulate some dialog here... Edited October 18, 2017 by snmjim 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWPerfA_ZN0W Posted September 2, 2017 Report Share Posted September 2, 2017 Probably coz of the sensors behind the grille. Gotta protect them Nick Halstead at one point had shown what all lies there when he removed the bumper cover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Halstead Posted September 2, 2017 Report Share Posted September 2, 2017 and another member actually had his grille CNC'd out but it didn't change any temps. The adaptive cruise control sensor sits there, even if you don't have it Ford holds the spot for it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtra Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 (edited) I wanted to open that up and put a PTU cooler there. I was told that there is not enough room for the heat exchanger. And that is where the Adaptive Cruise Control Sensor was. I don't have ACC, but I was told hose for the inter-cooler takes up most of the space. The Webasto Edge has the cover removed, and it looks like they put in a larger custom inter-cooler and a scoop grill to maximize air flow . Edited September 5, 2017 by Xtra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snmjim Posted September 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 Webasto Edge??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtra Posted September 4, 2017 Report Share Posted September 4, 2017 (edited) Webasto Edge??? Yes , It is a 2015 SEMA car. This car was built to showcase Webasto car pre heaters, great technology . https://www.webasto.com/us/markets-products/car/webasto-2015-ford-edge-sport-ignition/ Edited September 4, 2017 by Xtra 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snmjim Posted September 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2017 (edited) In tuning with Unleashed (Torrie) we're in the process of refining the 93 Octane tune and have hit high CAI Temps. So until an after market intercooler is developed to mitigate and/or resolve this issue I'd like to pose the following question to our Subject Matter Experts (SMEs)... Why not either remove the shutters from the "Active Intercooler Shutters" for the intercooler or simply pull the fuse with them in the fully open position? For those who don't already know this we're tuning a stock 2016 Ford Edge Sport... Edited October 25, 2017 by snmjim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roots57 Posted September 7, 2017 Report Share Posted September 7, 2017 and another member actually had his grille CNC'd out but it didn't change any temps. The adaptive cruise control sensor sits there, even if you don't have it Ford holds the spot for it The ACC is the only option I don't have that I wish I did. Apart from the ACC buttons on the steering wheel, do you know what else is not included? You can probably see where i'm going with this, do you think its possible to add this option? I see that Ford sells the ACC buttons, and from what it sounds like, the ACC sensor is in the front bumper even if you are not equipped with this option, is this correct to your knowledge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtra Posted September 7, 2017 Report Share Posted September 7, 2017 In tuning with Unleashed (Torrie) we're in the process of refining the 93 Octane tune and have hit high CAC Temps. So until an after market intercooler is developed to mitigate and/or resolve this issue I'd like to pose the following question to our Subject Matter Experts (SMEs)... I am not sure if our stock inter-cooler is air to air or air to liquid cooled. Chances are it is air to air. Turbonetics has a large choice of sizes in stock of both types, and they also do custom work. Here is a link to the custom page. West Coast http://www.turboneticsinc.com/performance/products/intercoolers/custom-fabrication Fluidyne is a high performance race oriented company . Drift cars, oval track and road racers use Fluidyne Heat exchangers for oil, water, rear ends, Transmissions and Inter-coolers. They can custom make an inter-cooler to fit as well. East Coast http://fluidyne.com Fluidyne told me that if I sent them my stock inter-cooler they could use it to make the custom one with brackets that would alow it to bolt in. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Halstead Posted September 10, 2017 Report Share Posted September 10, 2017 Roots, non acc cars have zero of the assests needed from factory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snmjim Posted September 11, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2017 In tuning with Unleashed (Torrie) we're in the process of refining the 93 Octane tune and have hit high CAC Temps. So until an after market intercooler is developed to mitigate and/or resolve this issue I'd like to pose the following question to our Subject Matter Experts (SMEs)... Why not either remove the shutters from the "Active Intercooler Shutters" for the intercooler or simply pull the fuse with them in the fully open position? For those who don't already know this we're tuning a stock 2016 Ford Edge Sport... Where's the fuse for the "Active Intercooler Shutters"? If I elect to pull the fuse will the "Active Intercooler Shutters" lock in the open or closed position? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James.s.bishop Posted October 2, 2017 Report Share Posted October 2, 2017 In my 2014 Focus ST I had to removed the shutters when I upgraded the intercooler. As far as I remember, it did not cause any problems removed. Might have had to clear a code the first time but not even sure about that. If drilling out the grill didnt work though, I am not sure removing the shutters will help. The quest to find an adequate FMIC continues... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snmjim Posted October 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 (edited) After a Wknd of Sport front end R&D here are the validated facts (Ford factory manuals, Ford body shop & Ford Reps) and removal & modification instructions for the IC grill: At the time of this posting...the 2015-2018 Sport Edge grill only comes in two flavors one with block warmer accommodations and one without (Ref Pic). The grill I'm working with in the Pics is without, we know this for sure because we confirmed by ordering the only two listed for the Sport and compared (Ref Pic). Note: the full lower grill seen on other 2015-2017 Edge models will not work, nice try but no cigar (Ref Pic)... So after removing the front bumper cover/fascia the grill is fully accessible. We did not find any electronics that warranted the blanked off section of the grill however, we don't have the ACC option and we were able to confirm via Nick Halstead's post in this string that is the purpose for the blanked off section. Unfortunately a full open grill is not offered by Ford at the time of this post.... Just goes to validate the fact that engineers don't make designs without justification, whether good or bad... The grill is held in with integrated plastic clips and it took two of us carefully man handling from both sides to remove it without damaging (Ref Pics). MODIFICATION: Ref attached document... If you perform this Mod you should consider the AGS Sys Mod noted later in this topic string, these two combined dropped the CAI temps 15-20 degrees... However, I do love the custom SEMA IC Inlet which I so want (Ref Pics)... 2016 FORD EDGE SPORT INTERCOOLER GRILL MODIFICATION.pdf Edited November 30, 2017 by snmjim 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Halstead Posted October 18, 2017 Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Halstead Posted October 18, 2017 Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 getting the grille CNCd would look better as a previous member has done. I also know who owns the webasto lower grille, it's cracked and sitting collecting dust till the new owner gets it fixed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Halstead Posted October 18, 2017 Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snmjim Posted October 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 Nick, What is having your grill CNC'd mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roots57 Posted October 19, 2017 Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 (edited) Nick, What is having your grill CNC'd mean? This means removing it and having the rest of the honeycomb pattern cut to match the grill area using a CNC (computer numerically controlled) milling machine to accurately match the pattern, as opposed to cutting it by hand with a Dremel tool or something. It is a much more precise way of doing something like that, and much more expensive, unless you know someone with programming knowledge and access to a machine. Edited October 19, 2017 by roots57 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roots57 Posted October 19, 2017 Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 getting the grille CNCd would look better as a previous member has done. I also know who owns the webasto lower grille, it's cracked and sitting collecting dust till the new owner gets it fixed Nick, do you happen to know how it was originally fabricated, thermoformed maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Halstead Posted October 19, 2017 Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 Nick, do you happen to know how it was originally fabricated, thermoformed maybe? No, but I will have to check with the guy who did the CNC work. Only the initial one is expensive as the rest is just saved on file. Think he was gonna sell them for $100. Shipped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Halstead Posted October 19, 2017 Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 If you've gone this far you should consider the AGS Sys Mod, these two combined dropped the CAI temps 15-20 degrees... Thats a drastic swing in temps? Want to share the datalog from before and after? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snmjim Posted October 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 I'm in for one! Did he cut the entire honeycomb grill out & regrill or just cut out the blanked off part of the honeycomb pattern? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snmjim Posted October 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 (edited) ... Edited November 30, 2017 by snmjim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snmjim Posted October 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 (edited) Now for the second half of the stock IC cooling enhancement modification...da, da, dah!... After removing the fascia/bumper cover/front end, or whatever the heck you want to call it, the Active Grill Shutter (AGS) Sys will be fully accessible... Ref attached document... We attempted this Mod without the removing the AGS but no cigar... ...because to remove the shutters you must access the backside. You'll have several options: - Do I leave the AGS off all together? Pros: More cooling air when AGS would normally be totally closed i.e. full run Cons: The primary purpose of the AGS would be defeated which is aero dynamics, secondary is faster warm ups & fuel efficiency. - Cut off IC section at center connection point? Pros: Totally removes AGS and may increase air flow??? Cons: Air will not be funneled into the IC as it would with the framing design of the AGS. You will have to redesign the AGS actuation fork to maintain the actuation alignment of all other shutters. The shutter system is designed on the same concept as most windshield wipers and old steering box designs which is only one part is directly connected to the device generating the motion. For the wiper and steering examples the other wiper and front wheel are connected via mechanical linkage which makes it duplicate the motion of the primary driven wiper and drivers wheel. Must relocate ambient air temp sensor. - Just disconnect AGS wiring harness connection point? Pros: The AGS defaults wide open when off or disconnected, this will provide better cooling during all operations. Cons: Totally defeat the primary and secondary design purposes. Throw one code one time and will not return after being erased. - Modify IC portion of AGS and run AGS disconnected? Pros: Provide maximum IC cooling capability and better radiator cooling. Cons: Totally defeat the primary & secondary design purposes. Throw one code one time and will not return after being erased. - Modify IC portion of AGS and run AGS connected (remmended)? Pros: Maximize IC cooling through all operation ranges. Maintains majority of primary and secondary design purposes. Cons: None noted to date. The choice is yours, I opted for the "recommended" method. Note/s: - Anytime when modifying always come to understand the engineer's original intent of the primary and secondary functions of the thing under consideration for modification. Then determine if the value added for your effort expended and how the engineers intent is impacted is worth the change. - My tool/s of choice for cutting shutter blades: Started with a dremel which worked out great for speed but spins so fast it started to melt the plastic which required a lot more finishing work with a grinder and wire wheel. A jewelers saw worked more precisely with less cleanup but much slower than the dremel... Thanks goes out to Bishop for making this part of the process easier with R&D & finishing work... Damn this documenting takes time, I do enough of it for Uncle Sam... A totally thankless labor of love/camaraderie... 2016 Ford Edge Sport AGS Mod.pdf Edited November 30, 2017 by snmjim 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoDTMF Posted November 2, 2017 Report Share Posted November 2, 2017 hi, I posted this this on the facebook forum: Myths of lower Tstat. I put in the 170 Tstat. If you do this but don't do a tune you don't get as much benefit. I loaded the stock today and noticed my temps hitting 210! I got out and looked at the shutters and they were closed. When tuned I have not hit 210. I am theorizing the tune leaves the shutters open. I need to load the tune and check. Well, in quick little test I put the tune back in. The shutters stay closed until I hit 190ish idle. I drove around the block, temp hit 195 and the shutters were partially open. So I think my theory is wrong. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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