Valvetrain noise

[TORQUERULES]

My 2007 Edge SEL AWD with 3500 miles (just got it about 3 months ago) seems to have what I think to be excessive valvetrain noise after starting it cold. Now I am pretty sure that the 3.5 has direct acting "bucket" tappets (cams act directly on valves though a "bucket" style tappet that fits over the valve/valve spring) which is a mechanical system unlike the roller follower/hydraulic lifter arrangement on the V8 Modular motors and the old 2.3 Lima 4cyl so it will be more noisy by virtue of the design. But, this seems noiser than it should be when cold. Not the typical "sewing machine" sound as when warm. Now the 2.3 Duratec/MZR 4cyl in my wife's old Mazda 3 and my Mazdaspeed 3 has some more noise on cold starts/conditions, and that engine has a similar valvetrain, but not as noisy as this.

 

Is this typical for the Edge and this engine? I am using 5w20 synthetic, but it did it with the stock oil as well.

 

Thanks.

[Gary F]

My 08 does the same when cold. Nothing excessive but i can hear it for a few minutes. I'm running 5-20 Motorcraft syn blend and not too concerned with the VT noise.

 

I'm taking no action at this time.

[edgedout]

My 07 SEL+ sounds the same. It goes away after awhile. Hope its nothing to worry about.

[TORQUERULES]

My 07 SEL+ sounds the same. It goes away after awhile. Hope its nothing to worry about.

 

 

Yea, me too. Even though it may void the warranty, for the next oil change interval I might try 30w instead to see if that helps. It will flow just as good but the thicker oil may offer more film protection.

[Texastinlegs]

My new '08 Edge Limited with Duratec 35 engine has ominous valve noise. This is intermittent in nature, not heard when the engine is cold, but usually appears when the engine is under load at lower rpm.

 

Mentioned it at 1st dealer service, response was 'we couldn't hear it'. Second visit then convinced both the service rep and a technician when I took both for a test drive. We were able to replicate the valve noise (sounds like pinking..."tink, tink, tink') on the service lot with the hood up - when the car was power-braked (i.e. car stationary, brake firmly on and rev the engine).

Issue is now with the dealer Sales Manager for consideration.

 

My take is I could have a Lemon on my hands. I would not be very happy to have the engine broken down for repair with ony 3000 miles on the clock from new - just not willing to accept that.

Note that I changed out the oil at 1500 miles for a full synthetic (exceeding Fords minimum specs).

The noise became apparent from first taking ownership - within days of driving it off the lot.

The best the Ford Tech could suggest was to try adding a fuel additive (which I am not going to do).

I did try using a higher octane fuel to see if the noise might be related but no change.

 

The dealer had not had any such issues with their Edge customers. But from reading here I am not alone perhaps.

 

Will post any further developments.

Otherwise - delighted with the car and simply want one that perfrorms as Ford intended.

[MKX2007]

I was under the impression that the oil that comes in the engine when new is supposed to stay through the breakin period?

[bbf2530]

I was under the impression that the oil that comes in the engine when new is supposed to stay through the breakin period?

 

Hi MKX2007. :D Just a couple of FYI's concerning what you stated above.

 

First: As per our Owners Manual, the factory fill is not any sort of special "break-in" oil. The engine is filled from the factory with Motorcraft 5W-20 Semi-Synthetic. It is the same Semi-Synthetic you can buy off the shelf at any auto store that carries it (WalMart also stocks it). Absolutely nothing special about it. The Owners Manual simply states do not add any "friction modifiers" during the "break-in" period.

 

Next: Officially, the "break-in" period for our vehicles is only the first 1,000 miles (as per our Owners Manuals). That's it. While conventional wisdom states that the engine will continue to "break-in" and even see a fuel mileage increase through as much as the first 5,000 miles, the "break-in" period is still only the first 1,000 miles.

 

So officially, you can replace the factory oil fill as soon as you drive the car home if you like (would be foolish, but you can). My personal opinion is that a full synthetic could be considered a "friction modifier", so I would advise (my opinion) waiting at least 1,000 miles before filling with a full synthetic oil.

 

Me? I follow the Maintenance Schedule, 7,500 miles or 6 months. Since I only put about 5,500-6,000 miles per year on this car, I wind up changing every 6 months with about 3,000 miles on the oil. And I do not bother doing a first oil change early the first 1,000 miles (some insist you should change as early as 500-1,000 miles). I simply do my first oil change at 6 months (again, about 3,000 miles for me).

 

Hope the "break-in" information helps.

 

Good luck. :beerchug:

Edited October 3, 2008 by bbf2530

[akirby]

I was under the impression that the oil that comes in the engine when new is supposed to stay through the breakin period?

 

As bbf2530 pointed out, that used to be the case but with today's engines the tolerances are much tighter and the parts are better such that no special oil or procedure is required. Follow the factory guidelines and you'll be fine.

[MKX2007]

Hi MKX2007. :D Just a couple of FYI's concerning what you stated above.

 

First: As per our Owners Manual, the factory fill is not any sort of special "break-in" oil. The engine is filled from the factory with Motorcraft 5W-20 Semi-Synthetic. It is the same Semi-Synthetic you can buy off the shelf at any auto store that carries it (WalMart also stocks it). Absolutely nothing special about it. The Owners Manual simply states do not add any "friction modifiers" during the "break-in" period.

 

Next: Officially, the "break-in" period for our vehicles is only the first 1,000 miles (as per our Owners Manuals). That's it. While conventional wisdom states that the engine will continue to "break-in" and even see a fuel mileage increase through as much as the first 5,000 miles, the "break-in" period is still only the first 1,000 miles.

 

So officially, you can replace the factory oil fill as soon as you drive the car home if you like (would be foolish, but you can). My personal opinion is that a full synthetic could be considered a "friction modifier", so I would advise (my opinion) waiting at least 1,000 miles before filling with a full synthetic oil.

 

Me? I follow the Maintenance Schedule, 7,500 miles or 6 months. Since I only put about 5,500-6,000 miles per year on this car, I wind up changing every 6 months with about 3,000 miles on the oil. And I do not bother doing a first oil change early the first 1,000 miles (some insist you should change as early as 500-1,000 miles). I simply do my first oil change at 6 months (again, about 3,000 miles for me).

 

Hope the "break-in" information helps.

 

Good luck. :beerchug:

 

 

As bbf2530 pointed out, that used to be the case but with today's engines the tolerances are much tighter and the parts are better such that no special oil or procedure is required. Follow the factory guidelines and you'll be fine.

 

Thanks for clarifying that. I also follow the maintenance schedule & have never had engine problems on any car I've owned.

[Texastinlegs]

So my Dealer had the car for the weekend and had their "best Tech' look at it.

They confirm they can hear the valve noise I am talking about but suggest no further action at this time.

They quoted from the Owners Manual to me - words about "...occasional noise ...under normal driving conditions.." due to variability in the fuel octane.

Not sure I quite buy into that.

Did not hear the same valve 'tink' on other Edge's I have been in.

 

Will let it ride for another few thousand miles - but after that I will go straight to Ford and get an Area Rep to see/hear the car. May do so earlier if the noise persists or gets worse.

 

I have owned 9 Fords - not one of them ever displayed this issue.

At least I am building a history of this at the dealership so I have something to fall back on.

 

I am no trained service technician - but I have driven enough vehicles in my 35 years on the road to confidently identify a mechanical issue with valves when I hear it. I predict it will only get worse.

 

P.S. my first oil change to a full synthetic was at 1500 miles and well after the valve noise had first become apparent. Dealer service sheet records my request to investigate the noise when performing the oil change.

[MKX2007]

Since they are suggesting it could be fuel related, you may want to try another station or brand to see if any change.

[Texastinlegs]

Filled up with Premuim 93 octane at the weekend for a test and in the process of running a tank through.

The valve pinking is GONE! .....and it runs beautifully. No adverse affects (other than in my wallet), no pre-detonation at the higher end of the rev range - actually feels like there is more power too.

 

Leads me to one of two conclusions:

Either the fuel here on the Gulf Coast does not live up to its octane rating as posted on the pumps - or

Ford have incorrectly quoted the Duratec 35 motor as compatible with regular 83 octane.

 

Now I might have believed that fuel would be affected by Hurricane Ike - as refineries get back up to capacity and product variability might be mixed. But the pinking started for me before the storm and within the first 1000 miles break-in period. We also used different brands of regular gas to see if that made any difference - it did not.

 

The Owners Manual does carry a 'catch-all' phrase in there warning of "occasional valve noise" due to variability in fuel octane. But from a customer perspective that is hogwash. If a motor is advertised to run on 83 then it should run properly on 83 - and that means no pinking.

 

I will most likely put this experience to paper and send a letter off to Ford (with little to no expectation of any satisfactory reply). I want to be sure I cover all the bases for any potential trouble further down the road.

 

For now though, this Edge is Premium fuel only - and it loves it!

Edited October 7, 2008 by Texastinlegs

[bbf2530]

Filled up with Premuim 93 octane at the weekend for a test and in the process of running a tank through.

The valve pinking is GONE! .....and it runs beautifully. No adverse affects (other than in my wallet), no pre-detonation at the higher end of the rev range - actually feels like there is more power too.

 

Leads me to one of two conclusions:

Either the fuel here on the Gulf Coast does not live up to its octane rating as posted on the pumps - or

Ford have incorrectly quoted the Duratec 35 motor as compatible with regular 83 octane.

 

Now I might have believed that fuel would be affected by Hurricane Ike - as refineries get back up to capacity and product variability might be mixed. But the pinking started for me before the storm and within the first 1000 miles break-in period. We also used different brands of regular gas to see if that made any difference - it did not.

 

The Owners Manual does carry a 'catch-all' phrase in there warning of "occasional valve noise" due to variability in fuel octane. But from a customer perspective that is hogwash. If a motor is advertised to run on 83 then it should run properly on 83 - and that means no pinking.

 

I will most likely put this experience to paper and send a letter off to Ford (with little to no expectation of any satisfactory reply). I want to be sure I cover all the bases for any potential trouble further down the road.

 

For now though, this Edge is Premium fuel only - and it loves it!

 

Hi Texastinlegs. :D I am not sure if it was a typo (or in this case, multiple typo), but the Edge is tuned to use 87 Octane fuel (not 83). Of course, there is no 83 Octane automotive fuel that I know of in the U.S., so I am still assuming it is a typo.

 

Anyway, there is at least a third (and more likely) option, as far as conclusions are concerned. That would be that your engine timing and/or another engine tune parameter is off, and were likely not tuned correctly at the factory. Make an appointment and inform the Service Department of your 93 Octane experiment. Let the Service Department know how the "pre-detonation" disappeared when you filled with Premium fuel. This is a classic sign (pinging while "under load" on Regular grade fuel that disappears when Premium is used) that either the engine tune is off or an engine has heavy carbon build-up in it's combustion chambers, around the valves etc.. Since the carbon build up is unlikely on a new engine, that leaves the engine tune problem. Ask them to check and re-tune the engine back to factory specs.

 

Let us know how you make out.

 

Good luck. :beerchug:

Edited October 8, 2008 by bbf2530

[Texastinlegs]

So....my saga continues. Experiment with 93 octane gave only a temporary reprieve to the pinking before it returned. Went back to 87 regular octane and its back in all its glory (sounds like the proverbial bag of spanners when the engine is put under demand in low gear). Weekend trip to the hill country round Austin gave the engine some challenge and the pinking was worst it has ever been. Returned to dealer (4th attempt to fix) and this time they consulted with Ford. They have asked me to "baseline" the fuel my running three tanks of Shell or Exxon regular 87 octane - after which they will review again and decide what to do. Will let you know what happens after that.

 

Did anyone else pick up on the recent USA Today article that quoted a technical guru from Ford talking about the "octane sensors on the LKX and Edge that would soon become more widespread"?? - he went on to describe how that would allow the engines to tune automatically to the octane used for best performance and mpg. Sounded awfuly suspicious to me that such a system on my own Edge might well be close to the source for my pinking issues. Dealer knew nothing about it.

 

 

 

 

Hi Texastinlegs. :D I am not sure if it was a typo (or in this case, multiple typo), but the Edge is tuned to use 87 Octane fuel (not 83). Of course, there is no 83 Octane automotive fuel that I know of in the U.S., so I am still assuming it is a typo.

 

Anyway, there is at least a third (and more likely) option, as far as conclusions are concerned. That would be that your engine timing and/or another engine tune parameter is off, and were likely not tuned correctly at the factory. Make an appointment and inform the Service Department of your 93 Octane experiment. Let the Service Department know how the "pre-detonation" disappeared when you filled with Premium fuel. This is a classic sign (pinging while "under load" on Regular grade fuel that disappears when Premium is used) that either the engine tune is off or an engine has heavy carbon build-up in it's combustion chambers, around the valves etc.. Since the carbon build up is unlikely on a new engine, that leaves the engine tune problem. Ask them to check and re-tune the engine back to factory specs.

 

Let us know how you make out.

 

Good luck. :beerchug:

[ablb]

So....my saga continues. Experiment with 93 octane gave only a temporary reprieve to the pinking before it returned. Went back to 87 regular octane and its back in all its glory (sounds like the proverbial bag of spanners when the engine is put under demand in low gear). Weekend trip to the hill country round Austin gave the engine some challenge and the pinking was worst it has ever been. Returned to dealer (4th attempt to fix) and this time they consulted with Ford. They have asked me to "baseline" the fuel my running three tanks of Shell or Exxon regular 87 octane - after which they will review again and decide what to do. Will let you know what happens after that.

 

Did anyone else pick up on the recent USA Today article that quoted a technical guru from Ford talking about the "octane sensors on the LKX and Edge that would soon become more widespread"?? - he went on to describe how that would allow the engines to tune automatically to the octane used for best performance and mpg. Sounded awfuly suspicious to me that such a system on my own Edge might well be close to the source for my pinking issues. Dealer knew nothing about it.

 

 

It's not "pinking" that would be a different forum.

:beerchug:

 

Don't worry about the pinGing because it's Fords motor 5 yrs/60K miles AND if you burn a hole in a piston after 60K you are well documented and WILL not have a problem getting your motor repaired.

 

Personally it would drive me crazy :angry2: and I WOULD fix it myself or get a reputable NON Ford shop to take a look at it.

Then IF they fix it take the bill to Ford.

 

A lot of dealerships like to throw parts at a problem, see if you can get them to change the O2 sensor, then

Crankshaft position sensor, then the Cam position sensor, etc, etc.

 

Note: Don't burn any bridges be civil but be persistent.

 

Good luck

ab

Edited November 27, 2008 by ablb

[blockisle9]

Ive notice the ticking also at idle during warm up. It seems to come from the top of the engine and goes away after a few minuts.

[blockisle9]

Ive notice the ticking also at idle during warm up. It seems to come from the top of the engine and goes away after a few minuts.

Mine does the same "Ticking when idle espesally when cold" comming from top of engine. Its definetly not engine knocking (pinging)

Any one have any dealer input on this?

[bbf2530]

Mine does the same "Ticking when idle espesally when cold" comming from top of engine. Its definetly not engine knocking (pinging)

Any one have any dealer input on this?

 

Hi blockisle9. :D Not sure what type of engine you are coming from before the Edge, but DOHC (Double Over-Head Cam) engines do have bit more "ticking" noise in the top of the engine, especially while they are cold and especially compared to OHV (Over-Head Valve) or SOHC (Single Over-Head Cam) engines.

 

If you read your Owners Manual, it will also mention this.

 

Of course, we can not hear the noise you are describing so it is difficult to tell you whether it is normal or excessive. So it would not be a bad idea to mention it to the Service Manager during your next service visit.

 

Good luck. :beerchug:

Edited January 5, 2009 by bbf2530

[91renegade]

I Just picked up an 09 edge awd and when its cold it emits ticking that you can easily hear. Now once its warmed up it goes away but there still has that sewing maching ticking happening.

 

Is this normal for a car with only 4000km?

[bbf2530]

I Just picked up an 09 edge awd and when its cold it emits ticking that you can easily hear. Now once its warmed up it goes away but there still has that sewing maching ticking happening.

 

Is this normal for a car with only 4000km?

 

HI 91renegade. :D Please read my reply which is directly above (before yours). The same information actually applies directly to your question as it did to the other forum member before.

 

Good luck. :beerchug:

[robbut1]

I Just picked up an 09 edge awd and when its cold it emits ticking that you can easily hear. Now once its warmed up it goes away but there still has that sewing maching ticking happening.

 

Is this normal for a car with only 4000km?

 

I've got the same problem with an 08 LTD AWD here in Austin. My neighbor bought an 08 LTD FWD at nearly the same time and we have roughly the same mileage [16k/17k], but the neighbor's engine purrs like a kitten while mine pings/ticks like crazy. It's worse at a cold start [its hard to say 'cold' start here in Austin anytime of year, considering I lived in Minnesota for two decades], but continues to ping/tick like my old 81 F100 at 90k, and my old 88 Bronco at 110k, in sub-zero weather.

 

I can understand that this type of engine may have some ping/tick issues mentioned in the manual, but why do only some have persistent issues [as mentioned by others above], while others do not ping/tick at all [like my neighbors--we start them up together side-by-side, sometimes a couple of times a day!] ?

 

I recently also had a 08 LTD FWD rental [9k] in Chicago that also had no ping/tick compared to mine that is persistent.

 

For what it's worth, only Shell 87 octane has ever been used and has been maintenanced as per manual ...

 

I would love to hear if others are out there with this issue, or how it's been resolved.