Thermostat 2016 Edge Sport

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

Let us know how it works out! BTW, as far as that cold side/hot side discussion is concerned, it is largely a theoretical issue, though correctly stated. In practice, it has not made a whit of difference. And LME IS an engineering firm, working very closely with Ford. 'nuf said.

[enigma-2]

Just think. Soon will all be driving Lincoln's and Ford's made in China. Theeeeeennnnn let's see you replace your thermostat. HA. You'll be trying to replace part number ?????????㊙.

Edited June 23, 2017 by enigma-2

[Xtra]

I did not install the Thermostat today a Ford tech told me it may cause a engine light to come on and he did not recommend it. It has to do with the fans when they come on. I will do a little more research before I decide to install it.

[enigma-2]

I wonder if the engine computer would also be affected? (Thinking that the engine had not reached operating temperature, it would continue in the preprogrammed phase).

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

Not sure I understand? Do you mean open loop vs closed loop? DI engines go into closed loop within 30 seconds of startup, hardly enough time for the engine to warm up to operating temperature. This is part of their fuel saving and emissions improvement strategy.

I wonder if the engine computer would also be affected? (Thinking that the engine had not reached operating temperature, it would continue in the preprogrammed phase).

Not an issue at all. A CEL has been known to come on in 1or two cases, due to a trapped air bubble or faulty TStat. 99.5% of the time it has worked great. Getting those air pockets out takes a little perseverance, but persistence pays. That is the best I can do to reassure you, but of course, it is your decision.

I did not install the Thermostat today a Ford tech told me it may cause a engine light to come on and he did not recommend it. It has to do with the fans when they come on. I will do a little more research before I decide to install it.

[macbwt]

Fan activation is governed by the CHT sensor. Not sure how the thermostat would fall into the picture being it has nothing to really do with the CHT determining a default temp to start the fans. i.e. The 3.5 starts at about 214 degrees temp for the fans to run, unless the AC is on.

 

 

Still wondering how a lower temp thermostat would come into play say for a 300 mile trip on the interstate. No so sure it would even make any difference a that point.

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

That's my point. The colder TStat gives you a good starting point when you check from a cold start. If you are already beyond the opening point of the OEM TStat, then it depends on the programming. Is it OEM programming, you know the fans turn on at 210F or after. If it is custom programming, the fans may turn as many degrees earlier as the colder TStat is compared to OEM TStat. Or the fans may run at a low level all the time after the TStat opens, and just ramp up as needed. All kinds of strategies, that can ONLY be exploited with a custom tune. The tune doesn't even have to change anything but fan behavior to take full advantage of the colder TStat.

 

And yes, it does help in HOT climates. If you are running a hi-performance tune, you will likely want to control the engine temps very closely to extract the most power. And guess what, maximum power is NOT made when the engine is running "hot" ...

[enigma-2]

 

Still wondering how a lower temp thermostat would come into play say for a 300 mile trip on the interstate. No so sure it would even make any difference a that point.

Forgive me for my ignorance, but doesn't the opening temperature govern the temperature the engine runs at? If it opens too early (such as deliberately using a lower temp unit), should it not maintain that temperature? I had one stick open and the car never reachef full operating temperature; even after driving a little over 100 miles. Under the impression that when it opens, the coolant begins to circulate through the radiator, cooling the coolant, closing the thermostat, causing the coolant temperature to rise again. The rated temperature of the thermostat is where the temperature of the coolant is held at. Idling and driving slowly would be the only time the coolant temperature would rise high enough to trigger on the fans.

 

I thought that the ECU & PCM both use the temerature from the ECT, controlling both fuel delivery and auto transmission shifting. Still think it's a bad idea.

[TheWizard]

Yes, you are correct. Assuming that the radiator is up to the task of cooling, the thermostat will control the basic temperature at which the engine will run. There will be variation as the thermostat opens and closes based on the coolant temperature (which will vary due to driving conditions - ambient temperature, air flow due to vehicle speed, fan usage, etc.) but the average temperature will be fairly close to the thermostat rating. So installing a lower temperature thermostat will lower the overall average coolant temperature to something near the thermostat rating in all but extreme circumstances where the cooling system can't keep up with the conditions (extreme heat, extended idling, etc.)

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

The thermostat will really only affect conditions when you drive short distances, or at speeds above 40ish mph. in short distance driving, the passive cooling activates earlier, so it may take longer to reach stock operating temperature. Above 40ish mph is also mostly governed by passive cooling, as the radiator is sufficient to keep the coolant temps down. If you activate the cooling fans due to A/C, then without a tune, they will operate under OEM logic.

 

Again, the difference will be more like a bump in the road vs falling off a cliff. The TStat is only opening the door a little earlier. It has no Mr. Freeze magical powers.

[TheWizard]

No, the thermostat will affect overall temperature in almost all conditions. It's not a one-way device that opens and stays open - it opens and closes to maintain coolant temperature close to its rated value. So above 40 mph, a 192 degree thermostat will open and close to maintain coolant temperature around 192 degrees. Similarly, a 160 degree thermostat will open and close to maintain coolant temperature around 160 degrees. Therefore, the lower rated thermostat will keep the engine running approximately 30 degrees cooler at any vehicle speed as long as the rest of the cooling system (radiator, water pump, etc.) is up to the task and conditions aren't extraordinary,

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

That is not my experience. The rating is the point at which the thermostat BEGINS to open, it is not where it is FULLY open. It can take a 10F ( or more, depending on design) for the thermostat to fully open. So you are correct, there IS a progression of how the TStat works. And ideally, temps would be around the opening temp. It does work if ambient temps are low enough. But once you start getting into, say, 80F+ days, the cooling system will be working hard to maintain at the TStat's opening temperature. It's not a MAJOR rise as long as you don't hit traffic snags like we do around here, maybe 196F at 90F ambient. I will have to check datalogs if I have over 100F ambient conditions noted. BTW, different model years will have different TStat ratings. 2011 is < than 2007 for example by 10F or so.

 

The cooling system IS pretty good in the Edge/MKX. But it can use help in HOT climates. Especially with Ecoboost engines. I generally don't recommend TStats without a tune, just so that the PCM knows what it has and is dealing with. But after a point, does the PCM really care WHY the engine is running cooler? It only knows it has to deal with that condition. And I will say again, Ecoboost control is very different from the ones we are used to on the naturally aspirated engines. These engines run HOT, and OEM tuning is set to run pig rich to help combat that.

 

Talk to LME or talk to Brad at bradleyfredrickfischer@yahoo.com Both are fantastic tuners, and will give you the skinny on the TStats. Don't take my word for it. By no means am I a guru on this stuff. But I AM quoting from watching the Ecoboost platform evolve over the last few years. I would rather you talk to the people in the know directly, 4 sure.

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

2013 Model Year TStat operational specs

Thermostat Opening Temperatures

Thermostat starts to open - 3.5L, 3.7L 79.5°C-83.3°C (175°F-182°F)

Thermostat fully open - 3.5L, 3.7L 94.5°C (202.1°F)

Thermostat starts to open - 2.0L GTDI 80°C-84°C (176°F-183°F)

Thermostat fully open - 2.0L GTDI 97°C (207°F)

 

IIRC, fans kick in around 220F for the 3.5EB transverse, so probably the same for the the other transverse EBs as well. Fans kick in around 210F for the naturally aspirated 3.5/3.7L engines.

 

The 2011 TStat appears to be a bit more progressive

Thermostat Opening Temperatures

Thermostat starts to open 82°C (180°F)

Thermostat fully open 94.5°C (202.1°F)

 

The 2010 TStat (noted just because it was a crossover year of sorts)

Thermostat Opening Temperatures

Thermostat starts to open 86°C (187°F)

Thermostat fully open 96°C (205°F)

 

The 2007 TStat

Thermostat Opening Temperatures

Thermostat starts to open 86°C (187°F)

Thermostat fully open 96°C (205°F)

 

Obviously Ford knows what they are doing, I am not questioning that at all. But they have their optimized one-size-fits-all criteria. The owner's criteria may be a bit different.

Edited July 4, 2017 by WWWPerfA_ZN0W

[TheWizard]

I think we're on the same page. I'm not saying that the thermostat rating will be the absolute temperature at which the engine will run. But I am saying that except for unusual circumstances (extended idling, high ambient temperature, etc.) an engine running a thermostat rated 30 degrees lower than stock will tend to run somewhere around 30 degrees cooler overall than the same engine with a stock thermostat regardless of what that absolute temperature is. That would be true until it reaches the point where the fans are needed for extra cooling but even then it would take longer to reach that point because it adds radiator circulation sooner. So the benefit of a lower rated thermostat extends well beyond just initial warmup.

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

Truce!!! A tune is really the only way to take full advantage of the lower TStat. I just wanted to reiterate that because you can't change the behavior of the other passive components in the cooling system (without replacement), BUT the fans are the real ace in the hole You can command them to turn on at minimium speeds earlier, so there might be a very small drag on mpg, but the cooling would become mightily effective. Of course, depending on how often you turn them on/off, the life of the fans may be decreased, but they are relatively inexpensive and easy to replace.

[STB130]

Based on track testing in 037 Leo's edge it keeps intercooler temps much lower between runs

[snmjim]

Can someone please direct me to where the thermostat housing is on the Sport so I can get this done!

 

A perspective and a close in Pic would be awesome.

 

Is this an easy access job or do I have to tear this monster half apart?

[TheWizard]

 

EDIT: It turns out that this image may be just representative of the general layout and not an accurate depiction of the actual design. It is from the Ford parts manual and may have been used for multiple models. See post #56 below regarding the o-ring position.

Edited April 29, 2018 by TheWizard

[snmjim]

That's GREAT!

 

Thnx Wiz...;-)

[snmjim]

 

Edited August 29, 2017 by snmjim

[snmjim]

So in keeping with the Xtra & Wizard tradition of Show & Tell... along with my promise to provide clarifying instructions...here are some instructions for the T-Stat replacement of which I elected to go with the 170 per Unleashed Tuning recommendation, BTW, I live in Maryland:

 

Note, everything is simple when you know how to do it, so come on people lets help our fellow enthusiast out with some clarifying instructions...

 

2016 Ford Edge Sport Thermostat R&R.pdf

Edited January 23, 2019 by snmjim

[NoDTMF]

I did the Tstat install. But differently. I drained the radiator, removed the reservoir tank and twisted my hands in every position to remove the 2 bolts on the housing, but was able to do it. I was weary of putting any pressure on the plastic oil pan for removing the engine mount. The good thing is if you drop anything it falls straight down to the floor.

 

Actually draining the radiator was a painful process. The petcock is on the Driver's side and hard to access. Best if you have a wing nut tool to turn the petcock.

 

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fimages-na.ssl-images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FI%2F61oV692PyRL._SY355_.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FPAGOW-HD17921-Hurricane-Wing-Driver%2Fdp%2FB075VPVWQ8&docid=knAiJe5Ravo1_M&tbnid=yUhKTuO0vHjdyM%3A&vet=10ahUKEwiI452XyqDXAhULS2MKHZ3oAdsQMwjDASgFMAU..i&w=355&h=355&client=safari&bih=1155&biw=1573&q=wingnut%20tool&ved=0ahUKEwiI452XyqDXAhULS2MKHZ3oAdsQMwjDASgFMAU&iact=mrc&uact=8

Edited November 2, 2017 by NoDTMF

[commbubba19]

I did the Tstat install. But differently. I drained the radiator, removed the reservoir tank and twisted my hands in every position to remove the 2 bolts on the housing, but was able to do it. I was weary of putting any pressure on the plastic oil pan for removing the engine mount. The good thing is if you drop anything it falls straight down to the floor.

 

Actually draining the radiator was a painful process. The petcock is on the Driver's side and hard to access. Best if you have a wing nut tool to turn the petcock.

 

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fimages-na.ssl-images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FI%2F61oV692PyRL._SY355_.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FPAGOW-HD17921-Hurricane-Wing-Driver%2Fdp%2FB075VPVWQ8&docid=knAiJe5Ravo1_M&tbnid=yUhKTuO0vHjdyM%3A&vet=10ahUKEwiI452XyqDXAhULS2MKHZ3oAdsQMwjDASgFMAU..i&w=355&h=355&client=safari&bih=1155&biw=1573&q=wingnut%20tool&ved=0ahUKEwiI452XyqDXAhULS2MKHZ3oAdsQMwjDASgFMAU&iact=mrc&uact=8

 

 

This is the correct way. Drain reservoir and radiator. Remove hoses and undo the two bolts. Replace tstat and reconnect everything back up. Refill fluid via the reservoir and then turn on the car and let it run for 15 min. The cap is self burping so once the tstat opens, fluid levels should go down. Turn off the car and then refill until full.

[Mikula]

I did not install the Thermostat today a Ford tech told me it may cause a engine light to come on and he did not recommend it. It has to do with the fans when they come on. I will do a little more research before I decide to install it.

How did this all end up for you? Did you install the TS? I'm looking at picking up the 170, but since LMS does my tune, and sells the 160, I'd imagine they have a better idea of what their tune is going to require to run at its best.

[Xtra]

How did this all end up for you? Did you install the TS? I'm looking at picking up the 170, but since LMS does my tune, and sells the 160, I'd imagine they have a better idea of what their tune is going to require to run at its best.

The Reische Performance 170F TStat is the same Cold Side design as the stock thermostat . The LMS 160F TStat is a Hot Side design and is not the same as the stock design. That alone would make me go with the Reische 170F TStat.

In February 2018 I approached Galpin Auto Sports to install my 170F TStat again. This time I got two Ford Technicians and their performance guru involved. All three were against me installing it. One Tech was afraid a warning light would come on the other said it would make codes show up when I took it in for service and confuse the techs doing repairs, because they would not know that the TStat what been changed. The performance guru said that the computer might have problems with the fans and fuel mix thinking that the engine has never warmed up. To me it sounded like they were playing on the safe side and they did not know for sure what it would do, after that discussion I did not install the TStat.

When I change my turbos and IC then I will go ahead and change the TStat to the 170F Cold Side unit. By then I will be all in getting a custom tune from LMS and testing that I can run the stock tune and pass smog. I am sure that lots of people run these TStat with no problems but because I was at a Ford dealership they had to cover their ass and say no don't do it.

Edited April 8, 2018 by Xtra