Thermostat 2016 Edge Sport

[Xtra]

Just received a EvenFlo 160* Thermostat for my AWD G2 Edge Sport 2.7L EcoBoost with a LMS 91 Performance Tune.

It is LMS recommended for my Tuned 2.7L EcoBoost. This is what they have to say about it:

"Livernois Motorsports & Engineering now offers a line of EvenFlo low temperature thermostats for EcoBoost performance engines. Using our line of EvenFlo 160° low temperature thermostats, you can dramatically reduce the operating temperatures in your performance engine. This will allow for the engine to naturally make more power, ensure consistent performance, and increase coolant flow to help extend engine component longevity."

As I live where it is very hot in the summer, often over 100+*, and I do use the car . I decide to invest in one and see what it will do .This part is for 2016-2017 Ford Edge Sport 2.7 Liter Turbocharged SKU LPP2359-160.

 

 

Edited June 14, 2017 by Xtra

[always on edge]

I suppose I like the idea but isn't the stock thermostat 170º?

[Xtra]

I suppose I like the idea but isn't the stock thermostat 170º?

 

I don't know what the stock thermostat is in the G2 Edge Sport 2.7. I just know that 160* is less than stock and LMS recommends it. So I thought I would go for it.

[Xtra]

I just got off the phone with Scott @ LMS and he told me the stock thermostat is set around 190* to 195*. He told me that the EvenFlo 160* thermostat will allow the engine to produce more consistent HP and help prevent Knock or Pre Detonation. He went on to explain that when things get hot the computer retards the ignition and that robs you of power. And that on a hot day the stock thermostat would let temperature rise to 200* up to 220* while the EvenFlo would hold the temp to around 170* to 180*. , and that lets the computer run more advance making more power. So in that way the EvenFlo 160 makes more power over a wider temp range. I was worried about cold weather and my heater working and Scott said that in Southern California where I live there should be no problem with the coldest days in the low 40s to mid thirties. In Michigan where he lives it gets below zero for weeks at a time so he replaces the EvenFlo that he uses in summer with the stock thermostat so he can keep warm in the winter.

Edited June 15, 2017 by Xtra

[akirby]

Maybe the better question to ask is why Ford spec'd the OEM thermostat at the higher temp, given they could have chosen a lower temp. I don't think it's strictly for more heater output in cold climates.

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

For emissions reasons, with OEM tune & equipment. The 160F TStat is better suited for the Ecoboost's power production capabilities, I think LME said one time 145F is actually ideal. With a tune AND 160F TStat, you can maintain the emissions quality while boosting (!) the hp/tq/fun factor.

[akirby]

Just saying there is always some kind of tradeoff, so make sure to take that into account.

[Xtra]

Maybe the better question to ask is why Ford spec'd the OEM thermostat at the higher temp, given they could have chosen a lower temp. I don't think it's strictly for more heater output in cold climates.... And "Just saying there is always some kind of tradeoff, so make sure to take that into account."

 

If you work for Ford and know somthing, I wish you would just say it and not hint at it.

Edited June 15, 2017 by Xtra

[akirby]

 

If you work for Ford and know somthing, I wish you would just say it and not hint at it.

 

Huh? I don't work for Ford and I don't know anything specific. If I did I would say so. But I know that manufacturers can choose any operating parameters they want for their engines. So you have to ask yourself why they chose the higher temp thermostat if the lower temp provides more power and/or better mpg. Maybe it's only winter driveability in extreme climates, but at some point you do lose efficiency. It may or may not be a problem but I'd sure like to know that before I start changing it. But maybe that's just me.

[Xtra]

As I understand, by having a higher T-stat temp emissions can be cut, fuel economy can be increased and the heater will work just fine when it is negative 15* or less outside. Having a cooler T-stat will save parts as heat is the enemy and the motor can make more power, but at the expense of economy.

Edited June 16, 2017 by Xtra

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

Having a colder TStat but no tune makes an impact ONLY in short drives from a cold start. A tune will change when the fans operate and for how long, so that makes an impact possibly on short drives as well. Emissions should not be impacted because a tune runs the engine a bit leaner, as the OEM tune is biased towards a rich fuel mixture, again meant for a wide range of driving conditions/audience/maintenance conditions. With a colder TStat/tune comes the additional responsibility of being more meticulous about maintenance and possibly the fuel/oil you use.

 

So dropping in a colder TStat is NOT a solution to a problem, but an enhancement as part of a performance modification plan. Meaning the stock car works well, but you want it to work "better".

[macbwt]

A TStat is not going to make your engine run cooler. All it will do is open sooner. The engine will still reach operating temps and not prevent it from reaching those temps or keep it cooler. Only way is to add more volume and larger radiator to keep coolant temps down. Maybe on a short drive you will see some type of benefit. Any long drives it will mean nothing.

[TheWizard]

A lower temperature thermostat will actually keep the engine running somewhat cooler than the stock one. The thermostat opens and closes based on the coolant temperature. When closed, coolant circulates only within the engine for faster warmup. When the coolant reaches the thermostat temperature, it opens and diverts coolant through the radiator to remove heat. So, with a 160 degree thermostat, it will open and start sending coolant to the radiator at around 160 degrees. The coolant will then maintain a temperature somewhere close to 160-170 degrees assuming there are no cooling system problems or external factors such as extended idling or extreme ambient heat. With the factory thermostat, it won't start diverting coolant until it reaches 190 degrees and it would theoretically close again if the temperature dropped much below that point (not that the temperature of a running engine would actually do that) so it will maintain a temperature somewhere around 190-200 degrees. That means the lower thermostat does actually keep the overall coolant temperature lower than a factory one.

[enigma-2]

Wonder if lowering the tstat temp will affect any of the emissions testing (in those states where a cars needs to get tested each year)?

 

Anyway, "how much" more power is this going to yield? 1/2 hp? Who's doing the reliable, non-biased testing? (I don't trust any of these aftermarket bs'ers. They are in the same vein as a used car salesman. "Yes sir, this car absolutely does not burn oil". (drip, drip, drip, drip, drip, drip).

 

This site has an interesting take on the problem: http://www.reischeperformance.com/WhyLowTemp.html

 

This is also a good discussion on low temp thermostats, from tuner university. http://www.tuneruniversity.com/blog/2012/04/low-temp-thermostats-whats-the-advantage/

Edited June 16, 2017 by enigma-2

[Xtra]

 

Anyway, "how much" more power is this going to yield? 1/2 hp?

 

 

A TStat will not make any more power at all. The TStat is a power enhancer letting the engine make more power naturally. If when driving with the stock TStat and it is wide open all the time then the system it is doing everything it can to cool. A lower TStat will do nothing but have longer warm up time. If the radiator has the capacity to lower the overall temp then a lower TStat can have benefits by reducing Knock, providing more consistent HP and the ability to run increased timing. More timing = more HP. In a tuned car driving it hard through mountain canyons especially in a hot climate like So Cal keeping everything cool is paramount.

Perhaps I will go with a 170* unit and leave it at that as 160* does seem to be at the low extreme to me, and to low can have some adverse affects. It is about balance with a street car.

[Xtra]

 

Huh? I don't work for Ford and I don't know anything specific. If I did I would say so.

Sorry, I thought because you are a Moderator at a all Ford site that you worked for Ford and were a Ford Guru.

Edited June 16, 2017 by Xtra

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

160F is proven to work fine for the Ecoboost, so don't be deterred if you want to get that TStat. Does not create issues in the cold, even in the "polar winter" that the Midwest went through.

[Xtra]

Want to thank everyone for their thoughts on this . I have decided to go with a 170* Reische Performance Thermostat . Just ordered one and will be returning the EvenFlo 160*. I feel that 160* might be a bit low, my car is not a rece car and it needs to work under all conditions . I don't want to worry or swap it out if I go to the up to the snow in the winter to play .

Edited June 16, 2017 by Xtra

[Xtra]

160F is proven to work fine for the Ecoboost, so don't be deterred if you want to get that TStat. Does not create issues in the cold, even in the "polar winter" that the Midwest went through.

Now I am confused what to do do you know someone in the midwest that has one or do you have one?

Edited June 16, 2017 by Xtra

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

Plenty of Ecoboosts in Illinois & Wisconsin etc running the 160s. Of course it is on the SHO/Flex/MKS/etc, but shouldn't work any different. Do you absolutely NEED the 160? No. Can you use it without concern. Yes. Regardless of 160 or 170, best used with a tune to maximize value, even if the tune only changes how the fans operate. thewizard has made some valid points, but remember that at speeds below 40-45 mph, the fans will be needed to cool the system down. Above that, the radiator capability is perfectly adequate. How long are your drives, what kind of traffic/speeds, that is what you should look at.

 

Also keep tabs on your tranmission temperature if you drive a lot in traffic & heat. The TStat won't help you with that. Although you could theoretically get a lower temp bypass valve for the trans cooler system to do the same thing as for the engine cooling system.

[enigma-2]

Vector I was aiming at (and failed to do so) was Turner U's comments "If you're chasing more power, this isn't a place to look. Any power gain would be circumstantial (ie, only under certain conditions), incredibly negligible, and at the risk of accelerated wear on your expensive engine internals (especially in street cars)."

 

I just don't see how it's worth the cost and trouble. Esp if it may cause more wear and offer lower heat to the cabin in the winter. Me? In the dead of winter, I love heat. I'm not one of those who drive with their windows down not wearing nothing but blue body paint.

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

See, this is the thing. Let's make a differentiation between the naturally aspirated engines and the turbocharged engines on the Edge. They make look the same, but they certainly don't work the same. The Ecoboost engines, being turbocharged, high compression engines, work hard, create a lot of heat. So the more you can do to alleviate that heat, the more you are doing to prolong engine life.

 

Now you can also bump up the power at the same time. So no extended life, but no degradation either. At least from the heat angle. Stock parts will still wear down faster from other factors, but won't poop on you, assuming maintenance is rigorous to account for the increased power factor.

 

Heat has never been a problem. Unless you like your cabin being hit with 190F air, hardly an issue. 160F air is hot enough.

[akirby]

For the record, neither the site owner nor any of the moderators that I know on this and all the other blueovalforums related Ford websites are Ford employees.

[macbwt]

For the record, neither the site owner nor any of the moderators that I know on this and all the other blueovalforums related Ford websites are Ford employees.

I do not believe it, you are an Alien sent from Zandor and given a job by the men in black to work at Ford and then secretly planted into this Forum to observe us and plan for a world take over forcing everyone to drive a Prius

[Xtra]

Just received my Reische Performance 170F TStat . I did some research on the cold side Reische and the hot side EvenFlo thermostats. It appears that the Reische is the same cold side design as the stock thermostat . Armed with this info I will be going with the Reische unit.

I clipped this from another site with Joel from Reische explaining the difference between cold and hot side thermostats.

============================================================================

HOT SIDE THERMOSTAT

"So in the hot-side system the thermostat is placed pre-radiator: coolant flows in from the side (GREEN/RED) and, depending on it's temp, coolant is directed either up to the radiator to be chilled or if the coolant is not hot enough, the thermostat stays closed and the coolant is directed down through the bypass to recirculate. Of course the thermostat will often run partially open, directing a little coolant to both paths.

COLD SIDE THERMOSTAT

In the cold-side system coolant flows the opposite direction and the thermostat is post-radiator: Unlike a hot-side thermostat, the bypass control (brass bottom) is not attached to the upper assembly/diaphragm and does not move when the thermostat opens. It maintains contact so the bypass coolant can only flow up through the inside of the pipe, keeping the heat motor in direct contact with the bypass coolant temperature so the thermostat can function properly at all times. When the bypass coolant is hot enough the thermostat opens (bringing in chilled coolant from the radiator - BLUE); this also pushes the heat motor further down into the pipe which closes off the holes in the pipe for the bypass (RED) and shields it from the chilled coolant. However a small amount of bypass coolant is allowed to flow across the heat motor at all times so it can still monitor and respond to changes in the coolant temp.

A hot-side thermostat can function in a cold-side setup to a large degree but there are some drawbacks: When the thermostat opens some of the chilled coolant will mix in and expose the heat motor to cooler temps then it should be seeing to operate properly. Cooler temps then force the thermostat to start closing prematurely and once this happens, the hot bypass coolant will then start to make it open back up... and the cycle repeats. Another issue is the thermostat will always struggle to stay fully open because as soon as the bypass is completely shut off, the heat motor will no longer be exposed to hot coolant, forcing it to close again. The LMS/Even Flo thermostat attempts to address this by placing 4 holes in the bypass valve but then you always have a good amount of coolant recirculating through the bypass instead of being directed through the radiator as it should be.

In my own real world testing with a hot-side thermostat in a cold-side application I found the primary drawback was the way it handled changing conditions. You could see a nice stable temp cruising down the freeway but as soon as you exited and started slowing down to a stop the temp would immediately spike up and it took a little time for it to re-stabilize and cool back down."

=========================================================

I never dreamed that thermostats could so technical.

Edited June 19, 2017 by Xtra