2016 Smart Charging USB Ports?

[dcaton]

Just got a new (dealer demo) 2016 Edge Titanium. According to Ford it's supposed to have two "smart charging" usb ports.

 

https://assets.forddirect.fordvehicles.com/assets/2016_Ford_Edge_J1_CA/NGBS/Nameplate_SpecificationLiteDoc/Nameplate_SpecificationLiteDoc_136B520C-990A-A8A7-AD15-5059AD155059.pdf

 

The only two ports I can find are the ones under the door labeled "Sync". My phone (Samsung Note 4) reports "charging (USB)" when plugged into either of them, which means slow 500ma charging.

 

If I plug it into a 1 amp or higher charger it says charging (AC), and with a Qualcomm QC-capable charger, it says "fast charging". So I know there's nothing wrong with the phone or its ability to charge at higher rates. I also tried several different cables.

 

I didn't find any settings to enable "smart" charging (nor did I expect to). The ports seem to function correctly otherwise. Am I missing something here, or should I take it in to have the ports fixed? Didn't check fuses but I'd expect no power at all if a fuse was blown. 500ma generally isn't enough to keep the battery charged when using maps & gps.

[omar302]

Quick charging per smartphone standards is a technology that allows the phone to charge at voltage higher than the standard USB 5V. In case of the Qualcomm Quick Charge (2.0-3.0), the voltage will reach up to 12V. In this case your phone will report "quick Charging" or "Rapid Charging" (or similar). Ford's smart charging is simply a higher wattage (up to 2amps), in this case your phone will charge faster than a standard 500ma USB port, but it will not report it as "Quick" or "Rapid" because it is still a standard 5V input.

[dcaton]

omar32: Thank you, but I'm aware of how phones charge and the underlying technology. On my phone, "USB" is 5v 500ma, "AC" is 5v 1a or higher. QC charging is 2a minimum and up to 20v depending on QC version of the chip and the charger. All three charging modes work fine on my phone.

 

I don't expect the ports to charge at QC speeds or else Ford would have specifically stated that and would use the QC logo in their literature. I do however expect the ports to output 1 amp or more, otherwise they're nothing more than standard run of the mill USB ports.

 

The fact remains that the "smart" charging ports on my Edge only charge my phone at "USB" speed (500ma), so there's nothing particularly smart about them unless they're not working correctly. The info from Ford states that two "smart charging" ports are standard on the Titanium model.

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

Does the Note 4 charge at a good rate with the combo of a non Samsung charger and non Samsung cable? I assume you have already tried charging in the Edge with the OEM Samsung cable?

 

Is the Sync version uptodate? What is the production date of your Edge? Early in the 2016MY or ...?

Edited June 9, 2017 by WWWPerfA_ZN0W

[dcaton]

The phone charges at the correct rate for whatever type of charger it's connected, to using any cable. Between home, work, vehicles and travel adapters I probably have at least a dozen different adapters of all types from 500ma up to QC and a zillion cables.

 

The Sync version is up to date as of a week or so ago. That was one of the first things I did when I got the vehicle.

 

The production date is 3/16.

[Ray Heath Jr]

I love it when people come to a forum, ask for help, then get grumpy when we give them an answer they don't like, especially when their understanding of the Technology is over simplified, and they are using the charging icon on their phone as the gauge for the how much power is coming to their phone.

 

So, I have actually tested the ports with an actual USB Voltage meter, and my phone(iPhone 7) typically draws around 1.5-1.6 Amps on my drive home from work(Really the only time I have tested). Now my phone is typically between 40-75% depending on how many calls I have received that day on it.

 

How low your battery is will affect the draw that the phone will put on the charging Source. The closer to full your phone gets the Amp draw should decrease. I can draw right at 2.0 Amps if I hook 2 sources to the Meter at the same time off a single USB port on the Hub. If I put a second device on the other port, the port with my meter will go down, so the power is shared by both ports.

 

So a few things. Both of my current Fords have 2017 Model USB hubs. I never tested the 2016 Model hub in my Edge before I swapped it for the CarPlay capable hub. There might be a difference in the capability. Only way to be sure would be to put a Meter on it.

 

Order this, and test for yourself:

 

https://www.amazon.com/Eversame-Multimeter-Voltmeter-Capacitance-Charging/dp/B01D9Y6Z1G/ref=sr_1_18?ie=UTF8&qid=1497272671&sr=8-18&keywords=USB+power+meter

[dcaton]

Ray, not sure why you think I'm grumpy, nothing was intended to come across that way.

 

I have an Ellisys USB protocol analyzer but unfortunately this model only tracks the data lines. Nevertheless, I'm an engineer and do have more than a simplified understanding of the technology.

 

I've gathered four 12v usb adapters: 500ma, 1a, 2a and QC 2.0. The phone shows "USB" charging for the 500ma, "AC" for the 1 and 2a, "Fast" for the QC and "USB" for the Edge's ports.

 

I understand that the phone (or any other usb device for that matter) will only draw what it needs depending on the state of the device at any given point in time. In this case, the state of the device is exactly the same for each tested port, except for trivial differences in remaining battery capacity. Same cable, same running apps, same screen brightness, same radios enabled, etc.

 

Seems reasonable to conclude that the Edge port is only capable of 500ma. Otherwise, why would the phone not recognize this (and only this) port as an "AC" port, when it supposedly can deliver up to 2a?

 

If the Edge's "smart" port really is trying to be smart and only advertises itself as being capable of what the phone needs at that point in time, then how would the phone know it could draw more when it needs to?

 

I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong, so if my assumption here is wrong, where am I going wrong?

 

[omar302]

Seems reasonable to conclude that the Edge port is only capable of 500ma. Otherwise, why would the phone not recognize this (and only this) port as an "AC" port, when it supposedly can deliver up to 2a?

 

You can't assume that it only draws 500ma based on it not being recognized as an "AC" port. An "AC" port means no data, while the Edge/Ford hub is still an actual USB port (data) regardless of the actual power it provides. Seems you Engineering field is not into electronics .

Edited June 13, 2017 by omar302

[Tightanium]

Ok I'll admit I don't know or care about charging amps because my usb works fine for what I use it for but maybe the reason Ford calls it a smart usb is because when you hook a device to it your car can interact with that device. Do people still call phones smart anymore?

[Ray Heath Jr]

Ray, not sure why you think I'm grumpy, nothing was intended to come across that way.

 

I have an Ellisys USB protocol analyzer but unfortunately this model only tracks the data lines. Nevertheless, I'm an engineer and do have more than a simplified understanding of the technology.

 

I've gathered four 12v usb adapters: 500ma, 1a, 2a and QC 2.0. The phone shows "USB" charging for the 500ma, "AC" for the 1 and 2a, "Fast" for the QC and "USB" for the Edge's ports.

 

I understand that the phone (or any other usb device for that matter) will only draw what it needs depending on the state of the device at any given point in time. In this case, the state of the device is exactly the same for each tested port, except for trivial differences in remaining battery capacity. Same cable, same running apps, same screen brightness, same radios enabled, etc.

 

Seems reasonable to conclude that the Edge port is only capable of 500ma. Otherwise, why would the phone not recognize this (and only this) port as an "AC" port, when it supposedly can deliver up to 2a?

 

If the Edge's "smart" port really is trying to be smart and only advertises itself as being capable of what the phone needs at that point in time, then how would the phone know it could draw more when it needs to?

 

I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong, so if my assumption here is wrong, where am I going wrong?

 

Just the impression from the reply. It is hard to grasp tone from the written word, but that was my impression. Glad I was wrong on that.

 

Moving on to the whole problem at hand. Again, all of my data has been retrieved using a Meter, and not the display on the phone, but that is all on 2017 Model hubs, which the chipset did change in to meet the Apple CarPlay certification requirements. I would not think that Ford would have changed the Voltage output, but they might have. Seriously, the only way to solve this is for you to use a USB Power meter. For $15 you could have it tomorrow... Since you seem to be a Tech minded person, it will come in useful again.

 

When you get the Meter, check with your phone, and another phone.

 

Omar's explanation of "Smart" might also be a good way of explaining the difference.

[dcaton]

Ray: Understood. Sometimes hastily written messages come across in an unintended way.

 

I'm going to order one of those meters, thanks for the link. I was disappointed to realize that my USB analyzer didn't monitor the power lines, but its been a few years since I've had to work on usb hardware.

 

My real concern here isn't how the port works per se, just that the phone is supplied with enough power to keep it from draining the battery, particularly when Google Maps and Android Auto (which I have mixed feelings about) is being used. I was recently on a long trip in an unfamiliar area, using Waze to navigate. The port in the rental vehicle couldn't keep up with the phone's power demands and the battery eventually drained to 0 in a place where I really needed navigation assistance. And of course, I left both my spare battery and portable power pack back home. Had to drive around aimlessly until I found someone I could ask for directions.

 

Of course, with Android Auto the phone's screen generally isn't on so power requirements are reduced, but I don't know that a 500ma port is still enough to prevent battery drain. I'm still under the (perhaps incorrect) assumption that the Edge is only providing 500ma. I'll report back when the meter arrives and I've had a chance to test it.

[Ray Heath Jr]

Ray: Understood. Sometimes hastily written messages come across in an unintended way.

 

I'm going to order one of those meters, thanks for the link. I was disappointed to realize that my USB analyzer didn't monitor the power lines, but its been a few years since I've had to work on usb hardware.

 

My real concern here isn't how the port works per se, just that the phone is supplied with enough power to keep it from draining the battery, particularly when Google Maps and Android Auto (which I have mixed feelings about) is being used. I was recently on a long trip in an unfamiliar area, using Waze to navigate. The port in the rental vehicle couldn't keep up with the phone's power demands and the battery eventually drained to 0 in a place where I really needed navigation assistance. And of course, I left both my spare battery and portable power pack back home. Had to drive around aimlessly until I found someone I could ask for directions.

 

Of course, with Android Auto the phone's screen generally isn't on so power requirements are reduced, but I don't know that a 500ma port is still enough to prevent battery drain. I'm still under the (perhaps incorrect) assumption that the Edge is only providing 500ma. I'll report back when the meter arrives and I've had a chance to test it.

10-4, Keep us in the loop.

 

I know my 2017 Version of the Hub in my Edge and Expedition are both providing over 1.5A to my iPhone 7 when it is below 50%.

 

If yours is not, I would take it up with the dealership.

Edited June 15, 2017 by Ray Heath Jr

[truerock]

USB 2.0 does not support 2.0 amps?

 

• Battery Charging Specification 1.2:^[22] with increased current of 1.5 A on charging ports for unconfigured devices, allowing High Speed communication while having a current up to 1.5 A
• USB 2.0 VBUS Max Limit, increased the maximum allowable V_BUS voltage from 5.25V to 5.50V to align with the USB Type-C Spec, which was released simultaneously.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB