Kleber Gomes Posted March 3, 2017 Report Share Posted March 3, 2017 Hello guys, This morning I noticed that my Ford Edge 2013 was not running smooth as before. There wasn't any other problem like losing power, etc, the only issue was that (mainly when stopped) it was possible to feel that the engine rotation was presenting some significant variations, and in some cases it seems that the engine would almost shut down, but never got to this point. While in movement, the car was performing quite ok and such variations were almost not possible to be noticed. As I have the OBD connector and the Torque App, I decided to check for any error codes and unfortunately 02 of them have poped up (previously, this scan all always clean). These 02 error codes are P2196 and P2198, both connected with O2 Sensor Signal. (attaching a print screen). I have been using the same gas station so initially I'm assuming there hasn't been any issue with fuel quality. Would appreciate if you could help me to understand what may be this problem, if there any common problem related to that and the options to fix. Thanks/Kleber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omar302 Posted March 3, 2017 Report Share Posted March 3, 2017 It probably is the canister purge valve, a cheap part to replace. Here is a thread I found for the Ford Explorer with the same engine having the same issue. Go down to a post by ssilence. http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/index.php?threads/p2196-and-p2198-what-to-check.417753/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kleber Gomes Posted March 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2017 It probably is the canister purge valve, a cheap part to replace. Here is a thread I found for the Ford Explorer with the same engine having the same issue. Go down to a post by ssilence. http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/index.php?threads/p2196-and-p2198-what-to-check.417753/ Thanks Omar. In Ssilence's post he said that there was a recall for the Edge related to this problem: "In addition, I found a recall for earlier makes of the Ford Edge that had this same part failing." I'm not from US and based in all my research about the Edge I never found anything about it. Do you have any reference on this recall, and where can I find more info? BR/Kleber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kleber Gomes Posted March 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2017 Have just called a dealer here in Brazil ... this cart costs 233 USD :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefduane Posted March 3, 2017 Report Share Posted March 3, 2017 $233!?? I just replaced the Canister Purge Valve on my '11 for about $35. Its pretty to do yourself with basic tools. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kleber Gomes Posted March 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2017 $233!?? I just replaced the Canister Purge Valve on my '11 for about $35. Its pretty to do yourself with basic tools. Yeap ... the problem is that here you just can buy parts in official Ford dealers. I've been asking around and here nobody knows the motorcraft code. Have found the part number associated 7T4Z-9C915-A but the cheapest I have found so far was 172 USD ... but couldn't find the part available in any dealer yet. :-( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omar302 Posted March 3, 2017 Report Share Posted March 3, 2017 Why don't you buy it online from the US & have it shipped to you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omar302 Posted March 3, 2017 Report Share Posted March 3, 2017 Kleber, also the part number you mentioned is for a 2010. The correct part for 2013 is AU5Z9C915B & it is cheaper. http://www.tascaparts.com/oe-ford/au5z9c915b 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefduane Posted March 3, 2017 Report Share Posted March 3, 2017 Heck, if you really get in a jam I sure someone here would obtain the part and ship it to you in Brazil. Probably be a lot less than $172.00USD. Mods: If this suggestion is out-of-bounds let me know. Don't want the headline news to report about how the "Ford Edge Forum" participants are illegally shipping car parts to Brazil! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbwt Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 Brazil has horrible import duties on parts from the US. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kleber Gomes Posted March 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 Kleber, also the part number you mentioned is for a 2010. The correct part for 2013 is AU5Z9C915B & it is cheaper. http://www.tascaparts.com/oe-ford/au5z9c915b Thanks once again Omar. That's the correct part code. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kleber Gomes Posted March 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 Why don't you buy it online from the US & have it shipped to you? Yes, this is an option. Found one alternative in Amazon with a final cost of 62 USD. For us here, this start to be a "not so cheap" price to just buy and risk to be, or not, the solution. So, I shall take it to a dealer to confirm if this is really the part to be replaced. Another problem here is that after searching in many dealers, this part is just not available in Brazil :-) Probably if I buy in Internet it will be faster than Ford to bring it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kleber Gomes Posted March 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 Brazil has horrible import duties on parts from the US. That's true. Additionally shipping takes a lot of time (weeks) and by plane it gets quite expensive. And if you don't pay the taxes accordingly and your delivery is caught, fees can be as high as 50%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kleber Gomes Posted March 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2017 So, I decided to take the car to a dealer, to confirm if the failure is really in this part. (this will be my first experience with dealers that are not with regular maintenance). Left it over there this morning, they will investigate. They said that they will return with the findings and budget to fix. (but if I decide not to fix with them, then I would have to pay 1h of their technician for the findings (1h of a dealer technician here = 105 USD). Considering the cost of the part if I import by myself, the price from the dealer is not too far away, so I decided to take the risk. Let's see what will be their feedback. BR/Kleber 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kleber Gomes Posted March 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2017 The dealer called me in the end of the afternoon, and said: - The TSB 14:0213 doesn't apply to my vehicle; - They detected readings of a "rich" mixture and "reprogrammed" PCM; - They said it is not necessary to replace the canister purge valve; - The light in the panel is gone; - Nothing else is needed and the problem is fixed; Bill: 1h from their technician (105 usd) Any idea of what is reprogramming the PCM? BR, Kleber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enigma-2 Posted March 7, 2017 Report Share Posted March 7, 2017 Any idea of what is reprogramming the PCM? BR, Kleber This may be overkill but does a good job of covering the subject. http://www.autotap.com/techlibrary/about_flash_reprogramming_pcms.asp 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kleber Gomes Posted March 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2017 This may be overkill but does a good job of covering the subject. http://www.autotap.com/techlibrary/about_flash_reprogramming_pcms.asp Just got the car. Dealer has upgraded PCM Sw release.from DT4A-12A650-ATD to DT4A-12A650-ATE. The contact person also said that PCM was "reprogrammed" but honestly I don't think they had changed any parameter (beyond the sw update). They cleared the error codes (DTC). They also blamed the quality of the fuel which in my view is a very unlikely situation, as I've been using the same gas station for more than 6 years, in many different cars without any problem. As they belong to a huge supermarket here (like wallmart) I believe they would not risk their brand reputation on bad quality fuels. Have used the vehicle this morning and things seems to be returned to normal. No fault codes neither IML and nothing else noticed (neither the "strange" engine rotation variation while stopped). I'm not fully convinced that the root cause was solved but will count that the PCM sw update should have solved. Thanks/Kleber Have just used the vehicle today, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 7, 2017 Report Share Posted March 7, 2017 The contact person also said that PCM was "reprogrammed" but honestly I don't think they had changed any parameter (beyond the sw update). The software update does change parameters. It changes how the sensor inputs are interpreted and what happens under different conditions. If it doesn't fix the underlying problem you'll know it pretty soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kleber Gomes Posted March 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2017 The software update does change parameters. It changes how the sensor inputs are interpreted and what happens under different conditions. If it doesn't fix the underlying problem you'll know it pretty soon. I agree. I'm happy that so far the issues didn't come back so maybe such changes were enough to fix the situation. Hope it continues like that! Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kleber Gomes Posted March 8, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 So far, nothing noticeable with the car while driving and the IML hasn't returned. However ... yesterday I took the car to a gas station for refueling and the same symptom of having difficulties to have the engine started just after refueling was there (not solved). Will call dealer today to ask about it. BR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbwt Posted March 8, 2017 Report Share Posted March 8, 2017 Check the purge valve for vacuum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kleber Gomes Posted March 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 For me it makes a lot of sense and the purge canister valve really has to be the problem. I collected some further readings from the OBD and notice that in bank 1, the O2 measurement is always in 0.8V. The system try to reduce the fuel injection (SRFT) but there's absolutely no change in the O2 measurement (differently from Bank 2). This means that the mixture is always "rich" with low O2 levels measured. I believe this triggered the P2196/P2198 DTCs, as a condition for that is having no switch in O2 monitoring even after strong reductions in fuel injection, for at least 30 seconds. So, in case we have a purge valve malfunctioning and "opened" (when it should be closed) gas vapour (hydrocarbonate) ends up constantly getting into the engine, leaving less space for O2 ... and resulting in rich (my hypothesis) However, I remeber to see comments of another issue with Edge, related to throttle body. Based in your experience, do you see any chance that the throttle body issue could the the reason of the problems? I mean, if it is related to the O2 inflow and I'm constantly reading low O2 outputs, I was wondering if that couldn't be the problem as well ... so, your opinion and eventually tips on how could I detect such issue in my car would be appreciate. PS: So far, no DTCs are present anymore. BR/Kleber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbwt Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 Purge valve should hold about 20-22 inch water when measured with a vacuum gauge. I changed my purge valves out with one reading 7 inch water and the other was I believe at about 11 inch water. Figured I dodged the bullet by changing them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kleber Gomes Posted March 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 Yes. This morning I bought it in Amazon for replacement. Unfortunately, due to shipping and taxes it cost 59 USD as final price (part price was 22). Additionally, the part will only arrive in April ... Viva Brazil! Yesterday I called the dealer asking for the part, and they told me that it was not even registered in their system so they had absolutely no idea of how long would it take to receive the part. Additionally, they budget another hour of their technician to replace so it would cost me 165 USD to replace with them :-O As soon as I replace it, I'll share more feedbacks. Thanks/Kleber 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enigma-2 Posted March 14, 2017 Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 So far, nothing noticeable with the car while driving and the IML hasn't returned. However ... yesterday I took the car to a gas station for refueling and the same symptom of having difficulties to have the engine started just after refueling was there (not solved). Will call dealer today to ask about it. BR Have you been able to get this fixed yet? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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