fords warranty denials

[norseman12]

Hello, i own a 2007 edge now and just unloaded a 2015 focus and have had the same issue Fords inability to admit to any mechanical issues untill the car is literally towed in.

I love my Edge and have put up with Ford because overall i love the car. 174K miles (i drive freeway a lot) but I have had one rear drive unit (sealed) fail, the brake Booster fail and now another sealed drivetrain unit the Ptu has failed thats a lot of trouble for one car and the way i drive. We had to get rid of the focus due to the double clutch disaster of a transmission and i warn everyone off any Ford that has that trans.

I dont expect Ford to fix my edge anymore due to milage but to put a car on the market in the US with drivetrain parts that are sealed and cannot be serviced is ridiculous, and when you experience trouble the dealers choice of reasons is you dont know how to drive or its supposed to do that until the warranty runs out. A 36month warranty is pretty self serving. After the financial crash we wanted to support Ford but the company has really disappointing record with customer service in our home.

I hate to support the offshore carmakers but they are standing behind their cars better and actually choose dealers that have been much better at supporting their product. Due to our experiance with the last two fords i have had to purchase Hyundai products. I still love my edge and it runs great but I am looking at a new PTU to the tune of about 2K this was an engineering failure solely in Fords Lap and they know it since the overseas PTU units are not sealed so you can change oil its not rocket science guys a 1.00 plug would have stopped all this animosity on line concerning this system.

And for the Ford apologists that will say these are not big issues it only happens once in a while look on utube and all the repair vids for Ford PTU seals failures etc if you own an all wheel drive ford in this agegroup you will have trouble. Same with the Double clutch trans, the fix dosent work just ask the mechanics somewhere they cant be heard.

[lildisco]

So you have nearly 200,000 miles & a 10 year old vehicle (1st gen as well) & you're complaining of 3 components failing? I'd be very happy to only have 3 issues like that on a high mileage 10 year old vehicle

 

Components fail, sometimes regardless of wailing or hot dogging it. Brake booster had an extended warranty on it i believe, PTU was/is known to puke some fluid out of a breather tube. Consensus here is to have a place suck out the old fluid & replace with new.

 

I highly doubt that ANY manufacturer will honor any failed component much over 5 years (I've seen 7 with my CX7) from the original purchase date.

 

Expecting NEVER to have any problem with a vehicle with close to 200,000 miles is pretty absurd, even for foreign cars.

Edited January 22, 2017 by lildisco

[norseman12]

My issue is not so much the failure of the parts it is the concern from the dealership base and Ford. Value engineering has lowered the quality of most products today the fact that ford accepted a geared product in the main driveline the the oil could not be changed in is ludicrous all oils breakdown over time. the milage i rack up is 90% highway and my vehicles routinely run well over 300k with regular maint. my 1998 dodge has 350k now and runs great starting to use some oil but i drive it daily.

Ford has been aware of this issue for quite some time, look at the dates of the complaints and the utube vids for repairs but no notice was ever sent out and they still deny its a real issue just anecdotal to people like me that don't change cars every three to five years. If Ford had been just a little proactive they could have called in the edge and put in drain plugs as they should have had from the get go. this wouldnt have cured the seal issues but would have gone a loooooong way to show they cared about the car owners. The camels hump was the Focus they still try to tell people the issue with the transmission literally destroying itself is you have to drive it like it has a clutch (REALLY) it is a 6 speed auto in a light weight car. 5 visits to dealer form the first month of new ownership two complete blow off by service crew (3 dif dealers involved) two computer resets one new clutch set finally complete rebuild of double clutch, sold it after that because service guy warned it wouldn't last long and next one was on us.

[akirby]

According to Ford engineers I trust, the ptu fluid doesn't break down or need to be changed for 150K miles under normal conditions. They believe that manufacturing tolerances are leading to increased heat which then breaks down the fluid. Changing fluid when it hasn't overheated doesn't help. The trick would be to know when it's overheated and change it then. To that end I think they should have installed a temp sensor and triggered a CEL.

 

I think they've focused on eliminating the cause of the overheating rather than putting a band aid on it. But it remains to be seen how successful they've been with the newer units. I do think this only affects a small percentage of vehicles but that doesn't help owners who are in that boat. I also think Ford should have extended the warranty to 100K on PTUs. I'm more worried about all the smaller problems that keep occurring with the Edge.

 

On the Focus DCT - I had one and the problem that caused them to fail completely was fixed several years ago. Ours was still ok after 65K with just an occasional shudder. So it's not good but it's not as terrible as some make it out to be today. And they did extend the warranty to 100K including the TCM (which also went out on ours).

 

Make no mistake I think Ford screwed up with the DCT and I'm surprised they're still selling it. But I don't think it's quite as bad as you think.

[IWRBB]

I don't know what a "rear drive unit (sealed)" is. I assume you are taking about the sealed unit bearings? N/M I see you are referring to the PTU.

 

 

Co worker has the focus with the DCT. She had a new clutch put in under warranty and is around 90K miles without any further issues.

Edited January 23, 2017 by IWRBB

[akirby]

I think he's talking about the rear differential.

[Tacyon]

^ what he said.

 

And while is its still a small percentage, any reasonable person would think that a fix would come with the next year or model. Especially on big ticket items that will be covered under warranty or are a potential safety item.

 

lildisco, I have a 74' Toyota Landcruiser that has an est million+ miles on it. I know of Mercedes Benz have that and more. Its a shame that we've come to NOT expect quality from our American produced products and I for one will not stop holding us to a higher measure.

 

... that is all

Edited January 23, 2017 by Tacyon

[lildisco]

In that million+ miles, how many major repairs have been done? Would you expect Toyota to pay for the repairs? All I'm saying is that maintenance is a thing with any vehicle. Preventative maintenance ranks up there as well. I'm not saying that new cars shouldn't last well beyond 200,000 miles, but complaining that a dealer won't warranty parts because the vehicle is 'babied' & only has 174,000 miles on it is just absurd.

 

But, what i do understand is the fact that making serviceable parts not serviceable. If you look at it from the car manufacturers stand point, that's another way for them to make money. If they engineered a vehicle that would never have a problem in 300,000+ miles, it wouldn't cost $35-40,000.it would cost well beyond what anyone on here could afford, but it would never break down. How much money do you think the dealer, manufacturer, mechanics, aftermarket companies, etc.., would make?

 

The simple fact is, the manufacturers of all of these vehicles are designing vehicles that 'shouldn't' need major repairs under 100,000 miles. But there are 100's if not 1000's of variables that they try to account for (aggressive driver, multiple panic stops, hard take offs, weather, road conditions, etc, etc), & i think they're doing a hell of a lot better job now, than what has been done in the past (above land cruiser is a diamond in the rough, but not all land cruisers are at the million mile mark. Semi's regularly hit the million mile mark, but ask them what their repair/maintenance bills are + cost of the Semi).

 

The human factor is the biggest variable that cannot be accounted for. Goes all the way from design, materials used, quality of the materials used, assembly, care/maintenance, driving conditions, etc, etc.

Edited January 23, 2017 by lildisco

[junehhan]

FWIW, Ford did listen regarding the PTU as I know that at least the 2015+ Sports have a drain plug in them. The non-sport Edge may have it also but I have not verified. BTW, before you accuse people of being Ford apologists, know that people normally come to forums to bitch and moan. Most of it is valid, some not. However for those of us who have been around a while, it gets very annoying. Nothing against people as it is human nature to want an outlet to vent your frustrations as well as do research on the experiences of others, but just understand that.

 

If you think having 3 problems on a high mileage vehicle is a big concern, I can connect you to an acquaintance of mine with a Scion that has 56k miles that is just having insane issues with sensors going bad. AWD vehicles are also going to have wear related issues as the miles pile up just as with anything drivetrain related. I have seen AWD systems break at earlier miles, and I have seen old school part time 4WD transfer cases go out at less miles as well.

[Tacyon]

"how many major repairs have been done? Would you expect Toyota to pay for the repairs?" Drive line transplanted from a newer, better engineered model year. (78) and many modifications. However, most daily drivers won't be wading thru chest deep water or climbing up 50` or greater mountains. Yes, as in smoky mountains. And I agree with your point of not expecting service coverage of the "odd ball" failures.

I suspect that the point the OP was making was that in cases where it's plain to everyone from the driver or service writer, to the Ford exec who made the decision to extend the warranty on part "X" (example brake booster) due to a high possibility of failure from design oversight or flaw, one might expect that coverage to extend out to the "life of the vehicle". Mileage shouldn't be the litmus test here. Again, I've seen POS cars at <60k and I've seen near excellent condition cars at >120k. I had a Dodge Intrepid that at 225k miles looked like a 1-2 year old car. Point if part "X" fails at or because of reason identified in warranty extension, then it should be covered for the life of the vehicle.

Now, "life of the vehicle" is the out. What is the measure of "life of the vehicle"? For that car that is beat to hell, has oil sludge because the oil is rarely/never changed, or very little maintenance is done, that is the "life of the vehicle". For a car with ?150k but the oil appears to be new with no obvious sludge and well maintained, well .. there is still more life to give. A mechanic knows by checking a few things in any vehicle how well it's been taken care of.

Sry, that was a lot of text but I hope it was clear and not too verbose.

[akirby]

No mfr in their right mind is going to cover anything significant for the "life of the vehicle". It's pretty much impossible to estimate and account for that future liability from a bookkeeping perspective including keeping repair parts on hand. It's also impossible to legally define "life of the vehicle" the way you just did. At best you could expect 10 yrs/150K miles.

 

But either way just remember this: TANSTAAFL

 

You're going to pay for that type of warranty in the cost of the vehicle.

 

You just have to factor in future repair costs on an older vehicle that's no longer under any type of warranty. For some that cost is a lot higher and may be enough to cause you not to keep it or not to purchase one. But honestly at that point the OEM mfr is way out of the picture and doesn't really care.

[Tacyon]

http://www.chryslerwarrantys.com/lifetime_warranty.cfm [drops mic, walks away]

[IWRBB]

http://www.chryslerwarrantys.com/lifetime_warranty.cfm [drops mic, walks away]

 

That is not their standard warranty. It's an extended warranty. It's not available on all of the vehicles either. High dollar, repair prone vehicles are not eligible. Got a Hellcat? Sorry, not eligible. Diesel Grand Cherokee? Nope. Ram 1500 Diesel? Nope. SRT anything? Sorry.

 

Everything that is eligible is total crap and I mean, really- who wants to drive a crappy Fiat product for "life"?

[akirby]

I did clarify my statement with "in their right mind" which automatically leaves FCA out of the conversation. They probably won't be in business long enough to pay any claims.

 

That said I am surprised they're offering it, even if it's only good for the contract purchaser and can't be transferred and doesn't cover high repair cost vehicles.

[macbwt]

The Edge and all vehicles break. Some more than others. In my life time I have not had one single vehicle that did not require a repair. Vehicles are liabilities not investments. (well maybe a few are investments) For the most part I have found people do not maintain the vehicle or abuse it and then complain it has broke. The other group is smaller and the technology and mechanics may break but this is usually within the warranty period or in some cases extended warranty period.

 

The PTU is an issue and not a mass failure but a notable failure. Two failures that are most complained about are the PTU and the water pump. The PTU is dying because of heat as mentioned above previously, which I put on Ford for not installing a drain plug to allow for maintenance and dealers for refusing to in some case to service the fluid in the PTU. Oil or lube only breaks down from heat. In this case the heat is generated from the gears and the close proximity of the CAT/Exhaust to the PTU. Thus Ford could issue a TSB for Drain plug installs and or a CSP and the issue would of been lauded by many and people happier. Pretty simple customer service if you ask me.

 

The Edge is a well built vehicle that (REQUIRES) maintenance. I personally avoided the AWD and stayed with FWD in all my Edges. I perform maintenance frequently on them and still had some issues, but the big tickets were covered by warranty.

 

Over all people complain about the failures but that is part of the ownership. The best used car you will ever own in most cases is the one you currently own.

 

All I can say is after about a combined mileage of ownership of 3 Ford Edge's at approximately 550,000 miles I think I am happy as the Edge is the only vehicle I have ever re-purchased let alone bought three.

 

Maintenance Maintenance Maintenance...........

[enigma-2]

But either way just remember this: TANSTAAFL

... unless you take clients out to lunch on a regular basis. LOL.

 

I was talking with my local service manager about this, his "opinion" was, the "life of the vehicle" is the life of the standard warranty.

Edited January 27, 2017 by enigma-2

[akirby]

... unless you take clients out to lunch on a regular basis. LOL.

 

Still not free if they're your clients......

[PaulSchott]

TANSTAAFL? Help me, If you do it'll let you know what my work password means DILLIGAF.

Edited January 31, 2017 by PaulSchott

[IWRBB]

You could just copy and paste that into Google.

 

There aint no such thing as a free lunch.

[enigma-2]

Don't know, haven't seen you yet.

 

"There ain't no such thing as a free lunch"

[junehhan]

Exactly. That is a phrase that economists have pretty much made famous. Just because the lunch seems free doesn't mean that it is costing you in some other form. Most companies have people in marketing dedicated towards making people think they are getting something for nothing.

[akirby]

If you're giving the seller money and you're getting something that cost them money to produce then you are most definitely paying for it.

[dshamer]

Ford Edge PTU failures are more the norm rather then the exception. Anyone that says any different is not dealing with reality and is drinking the kool aid.

[enigma-2]

Ford Edge PTU failures are more the norm rather then the exception. Anyone that says any different is not dealing with reality and is drinking the kool aid.

Ummmm, yes and no. What are you basing your remarks on? I've never seen any real staticists regarding what percentage of Ford and Lincoln PTU units have actually failed. (2%, 5%, 10%, 25%, 50%?) Do you know of a website that posts real numbers?

I would be interested in knowing.

 

That said, older PTU units are a source of concern.

 

Maintaining the unit "should" extend its life. I have just over 100k and never had a problem. Had the fluid changed once & service found the seal leaking and had it replaced. Service technician told me, he thought that once the seal starts to leak, the unit looses its lubricant and what's left gets gummy and fails to lubricate the gears and bearings properly. Then it fails.

 

But all things considered, it's still only designed to last the life of the car, which is conversely the "life of the warranty".

[TheWizard]

Ford Edge PTU failures are more the norm rather then the exception. Anyone that says any different is not dealing with reality and is drinking the kool aid.

 

Wow! I didn't realize that "alternative facts" had spread so much. "more the norm" implies "the majority". If 51% or more of Edge AWD models were experiencing PTU failures, don't you think there would be a significant uproar (and not just in online forums). Or maybe the press isn't covering it like they didn't cover the "Bowling Green Massacres".

 

Ford has sold an average of about 117K first generation Edges per year in the US. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that half were AWD. That's over 58K potential failures each year. I suspect that less than 1% have actually failed (probably FAR less than 1%). Not that several hundred failures isn't a big deal that should be dealt with, but it certainly isn't "the norm".

 

The same thing was happening with 11-14 Mustang MT82 manual transmissions. A number of them were failing and the screaming started on the forums. But the vast majority of owners (including myself) never had a problem (I still don't). You can't judge the scope of an issue by online forums because they represent only a tiny fraction of owners and those are likely to be the ones who complain anyway. People don't join a forum to post how happy they are with their vehicle so forum memberships consist mostly of enthusiasts, people who have specific questions, and complainers.