Lex Talionis Posted December 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 BTW is there any reliable not so expensive place to purchase the harness that attach the stock speaker to the wire, I do not want to cut it as maybe in the future if I get rid of the car, I will place the stock back, IIRC it is the Metra 72-5512... I would like ot see a pic ti be 100% sure of the shape... I wouldn't let that stop you. just keep the pigtail plugs you snip off and rewire them, and the speakers, back up if you sell. But heck, by the time you sell, the speakers will likely be so out of date and so old compared to the newest design, not worth the money to save them and you would get more value out of selling them as an "upgraded feature" on your car than yanking them out, putting the turd ones back in, and keeping them for... what? maybe another car that maybe has the same speaker size? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanatronic Posted December 5, 2008 Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 I wouldn't let that stop you. just keep the pigtail plugs you snip off and rewire them, and the speakers, back up if you sell. But heck, by the time you sell, the speakers will likely be so out of date and so old compared to the newest design, not worth the money to save them and you would get more value out of selling them as an "upgraded feature" on your car than yanking them out, putting the turd ones back in, and keeping them for... what? maybe another car that maybe has the same speaker size? The problem is that is easier for me to prepare all home, and just come down put everything back, and asemble, rather than to begin to stripe and solder in a parking lot, that is not very practical especially during winter the time in NJ...But you know, you are right, what the heck!!! I will get more out of the stock ones ebaying them now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbf2530 Posted December 5, 2008 Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 (edited) The problem is that is easier for me to prepare all home, and just come down put everything back, and asemble, rather than to begin to stripe and solder in a parking lot, that is not very practical especially during winter the time in NJ...But you know, you are right, what the heck!!! I will get more out of the stock ones ebaying them now... Hi kanatronic. :D If you should change your mind and not want to cut your stock wiring, give Crutchfield a call (if you haven't already tried them). Or check online: LINK: Crutchfield They sell adapter harnesses for a large number of applications. Hopefully they will have one for your speakers. Good luck. :beerchug: Edited December 5, 2008 by bbf2530 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanatronic Posted December 5, 2008 Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 Hi kanatronic. :D If you should change your mind and not want to cut your stock wiring, give Crutchfield a call (if you haven't already tried them). Or check online: LINK: Crutchfield They sell adapter harnesses for a large number of applications. Hopefully they will have one for your speakers. Good luck. :beerchug: I know they have it, but I do not see myself paying $24.00 plus shipping for two sets of harnesses to Crutchfield (nor anybody else)... :wacko: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Talionis Posted December 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 I know they have it, but I do not see myself paying $24.00 plus shipping for two sets of harnesses to Crutchfield (nor anybody else)... :wacko: that we can certainly agree on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbf2530 Posted December 5, 2008 Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 (edited) I know they have it, but I do not see myself paying $24.00 plus shipping for two sets of harnesses to Crutchfield (nor anybody else)... :wacko: Hi Kanatronic. That is your choice, and you have the right to do as you please. You did not mention that you had already priced the harness at Crutchfield (as far as I saw). If I had known that bit of information, I wouldn't have mentioned the option. Whatever you decide to do, good luck. Edited December 5, 2008 by bbf2530 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanatronic Posted December 5, 2008 Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 Hi Kanatronic. :D That is your choice, and you have the right to do as you please. You did not mention that you had already priced the harness at Crutchfield (as far as I saw). If I had known that bit of information, I wouldn't have mentioned the option. Whatever you decide to do, good luck. Guys is not that I'm pricing the harness, just use a little common sense, I'm a little DIYer in audio, and a home audio hobbist enthusiast by nature, go to Mouser or a MCM, or any online componets store and see how much a conector, far better and more sofisticated than this one cost, just a few cents. $12.00 per piece, for two midgrade wires, midgrade fast on connectors, attached to that connector is a horrible markup... BTW the ones they have listed is not even the right one, they have listed the Metra 72-5512 (as per the picture, unless the picture is wrong) and the correct one, is the Metra 72-5600 acording to the Metra website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbf2530 Posted December 5, 2008 Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 (edited) Guys is not that I'm pricing the harness, just use a little common sense, I'm a little DIYer in audio, and a home audio hobbist enthusiast by nature, go to Mouser or a MCM, or any online componets store and see how much a conector, far better and more sofisticated than this one cost, just a few cents. $12.00 per piece, for two midgrade wires, midgrade fast on connectors, attached to that connector is a horrible markup...BTW the ones they have listed is not even the right one, they have listed the Metra 72-5512 (as per the picture, unless the picture is wrong) and the correct one, is the Metra 72-5600 acording to the Metra website. Hi kanatronic. Not trying to debate it with you. I was only trying to help. As I stated, you had not mentioned that you already looked into harnesses at Crutchfield, so I threw the name out there. It is your car and you have the right to do whatever you feel like. Good luck. Edited December 5, 2008 by bbf2530 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auge.dog Posted December 5, 2008 Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 Kanatronic, this place has the harnesses for a bit less than Crutchfield - http://enfigcarstereo.com/shopsite_sc/stor...RA_72_5600.html After shipping charges you save about $7-8 total over Crutchfield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanatronic Posted December 6, 2008 Report Share Posted December 6, 2008 Kanatronic, this place has the harnesses for a bit less than Crutchfield - http://enfigcarstereo.com/shopsite_sc/stor...RA_72_5600.html After shipping charges you save about $7-8 total over Crutchfield. I have seen those already, and by coincidence one of their stores is around home, and I was planning to pay them a visit to see if they can sell it to me...let's see, thanks a lot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blockisle9 Posted December 6, 2008 Report Share Posted December 6, 2008 okay.... here you go.. but you know what they say, you can't polish a turd Not true, they just polished turds on Myth Busters :happy feet: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoopo Posted December 23, 2008 Report Share Posted December 23, 2008 (edited) Decent thread with some good info. I've been wanting to upgrade my speakers since I got my Edge, but certain life things happened which caused me to have to wait... until now! My original plan was to replace all my stereo stuff in increments, such as new speakers and a 4-way amp, followed by a new head unit, followed by a sub with mono amp. In the end I chose to buy all my components at once, which I have now done. On to locating a good installer. FYI, I now have in my possession the following: Sony XAV W1 head unit - super-nice 7" touch screen (no nav) Crutchfield asks $700 - scored it for $475 in pristine factory packaging -Sony Sirius tuner and adapter for above -iPod adapter for above -Steering wheel controls adapter for above -(exact model numbers available if someone wants them) 4x Infinty Kappa 682.9cf Crutchfield asks $120 per pair - scored em spankin new for $75 per pair 1x Infinity Kappa 124.7w again, cheaper by shopping online -Q-Logic speaker box for above Rockford Fosgate Punch p400-4 - for the door speakers (they under-rate them. This one states 400 watts but tested at 507 with a max of 1534) Rockford Fosgate Punch P300-1 - for the woofer (this one rates 300 watts, tested at 425 with a max of 1276) other stuff for install includes a RF 4-guage amp install kit (Rockford Fosgate extends the warranty on an amp 1 year if you buy their kit), 1.2 farad Tsunami capacitor, additional RF signal cables, StreetWires power distribution block, baffles for the door speakers, etc Needless to say I'm very excited to get all this installed! Edited December 23, 2008 by scoopo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoopo Posted January 2, 2009 Report Share Posted January 2, 2009 Sorry Lex, I wasn't trying to jack the thread... I got all my stuff installed, and all I can say is WOW! The 682.9 Kappas are awesome! And they do fit in the rear doors just fine. I can't attest to how they sound on a factory head unit but they are very, very nice speakers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanatronic Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 I replaced mine with the DLS-457's, and they indeed sound better, the mids are far more defined, and refined, and highs the same, of course the bass now is too much for my taste, and I needed to adjust the bass a little lower in volume. The sound is a lot more natural now. I strongly reco those DLS457 as a serious upgrade for the ones looking for a really natural audiophile sound... The main problem I found with the stock design is mainly the location, they are a way too low on the sides and the tweeter definitelly is not in the best place around, thati s ap roblem that we ahve to deal with unless we place them differently... About the stock speakers, after opening them and looking what is inside them, definitelly they are not bad speakers at all, the woofer is a very thick pressed paper cone, with a huge magnet, and the crossover is far from being an afterthought one, even the parts are good inside it. The main problem is that the enclosure they made was really poor, it is indeed blocking 80% of the area of the cone on the woofer, there is not way in earth than any driver could sound properly like that...I would like to open the front baffle around the cone, and see how they will stand in front of many of these so called upgrades we have nowdays on the big stores. I strongly suggest the ones interested in improving the sound, to try this mod first before going any further, and maybe will save you a few bucks, just cut the front plastic baffle area in front of the woofer, and try them. Unfortunatelly I realized that too late after I had placed the order for mine, so for me, it was more practical to replace them, than to modify the stock ones... Definitelly you can find better options, bigger sizes, the stock is somewhat small also, like 4", IIRC, but you have to look wiser, not all of the so called upgrades I heard in the stores, will sound better... Also I had lived the last week with the CD player mainly, honestly, as I have state before, I could not stand the sound quality of the satellite radio, saving a few stations that unfortunatelly are not my favorites. I feel that this quality is simply unacceptable for a paid service, and unless they improve it considerably, they will not get my subscription back again in my life...and do not think that I'm alone on that, just log on in audio forums and the same Sirius forum and you will found tons of complaints of the poor quality....BTW what they call 128kbps CD quality, not sure where they got that number, for an mp3 to match the CD quality you have to at least have 256kbps or more... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tribby2001 Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 (edited) I replaced mine with the DLS-457's, and they indeed sound better, the mids are far more defined, and refined, and highs the same, of course the bass now is too much for my taste, and I needed to adjust the bass a little lower in volume. The sound is a lot more natural now. I strongly reco those DLS457 as a serious upgrade for the ones looking for a really natural audiophile sound... Hey Kanatronic you still around? I have a question regarding mixing two DLS speaker model series. Do the following two speaker series look like they will match well as replacements in our Edge? __________ FRONT Door: DLS Reference series MS6A, 6.5" 2-way components - http://dls.se/en/car/prod.html?produkt=en_70 Sensitivity 92 dB (1W/1m) Frequency range 45 - 20.000 Hz Detailed specs: MS6A mid-bass driver http://dls.se/en/car/prod.html?produkt=en_428 Detailed specs: UP1C tweeter http://dls.se/en/car/prod.html?produkt=en_144 __________ REAR Door: DLS Performance series 457, 2-way coaxial 5x7" - Specs http://dls.se/en/car/prod.html?produkt=en_97 Sensitivity 93 dB (1W/1m) Frequency range 55 - 20.000 Hz __________ DLS Reference series MS6A DLS Performance series 457 Edited January 17, 2010 by Tribby2001 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanatronic Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 (edited) Hey Kanatronic you still around? I have a question regarding mixing two DLS speaker model series. Do the following two speaker series look like they will match well as replacements in our Edge? __________ FRONT Door: DLS Reference series MS6A, 6.5" 2-way components - http://dls.se/en/car/prod.html?produkt=en_70 Sensitivity 92 dB (1W/1m) Frequency range 45 - 20.000 Hz Detailed specs: MS6A mid-bass driver http://dls.se/en/car/prod.html?produkt=en_428 Detailed specs: UP1C tweeter http://dls.se/en/car/prod.html?produkt=en_144 __________ REAR Door: DLS Performance series 457, 2-way coaxial 5x7" - Specs http://dls.se/en/car/prod.html?produkt=en_97 Sensitivity 93 dB (1W/1m) Frequency range 55 - 20.000 Hz __________ DLS Reference series MS6A DLS Performance series 457 In the place the Edge has the speakers located you will not get any benefit going separates, that is for sure, and why you want to mix two different kind of speakers, why not using two pairs of the 457's, as I did. That will be a direct replacement even size-wise, and will be a nice upgrade soundwise as well (???) I will hesitate to use separates in the Edge, separates will work wonders if they are placed in the front panel, or in top of the dashboard, but not in the doors, and even less so low, anyplace close to the front panel will be the best place. To place them in the doors, unless a customized work facing front, with some angle, will be the same as using coaxials, and the benefits of having them separate to create a better soundstage will be defeated. Also the 6.5 will not fit without doing some work on the door holes, as the hole from the factory is eliptical. The 6.5 and tweeters are indeed a better option, but you need to place them in a different way, if you place the woofers in the hole of the doors the tweeter should be in another place, I will sugest to look for some place in the front of the vehicle panel, otherwise if you place them in the sides you will end with the same performance of the 457's... Edited January 17, 2010 by Kanatronic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tribby2001 Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 (edited) In the place the Edge has the speakers located you will not get any benefit going separates, that is for sure, and why you want to mix two different kind of speakers, why not using two pairs of the 457's, as I did. That will be a direct replacement even size-wise, and will be a nice upgrade soundwise as well (???) I will hesitate to use separates in the Edge, separates will work wonders if they are placed in the front panel, or in top of the dashboard, but not in the doors, and even less so low, anyplace close to the front panel will be the best place. To place them in the doors, unless a customized work facing front, with some angle, will be the same as using coaxials, and the benefits of having them separate to create a better soundstage will be defeated. Also the 6.5 will not fit without doing some work on the door holes, as the hole from the factory is eliptical. The 6.5 and tweeters are indeed a better option, but you need to place them in a different way, if you place the woofers in the hole of the doors the tweeter should be in another place, I will sugest to look for some place in the front of the vehicle panel, otherwise if you place them in the sides you will end with the same performance of the 457's... I have the Edge Limited (Premium Sound / 9 speakers in 7 locations) which has tweeters in the A-pillar. I planned on placing the MS6A 6.5" mid-bass drivers in the front doors and its associated UP1C tweeter in the A-pillar. My main concern was the sensitivity (92dB front & 93dB rear) and frequency range differences (45-20KHz front & 55-20KHz rear) between the proposed front MS6A's and rear 457's respectively. Supposing my installation is physically possible, in your opinion would these pair up well soundwise? Edited January 17, 2010 by Tribby2001 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanatronic Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 (edited) I have the Edge Limited (Premium Sound / 9 speakers in 7 locations) which has tweeters in the A-pillar. I planned on placing the MS6A 6.5" mid-bass drivers in the front doors and its associated UP1C tweeter in the A-pillar. My main concern was the sensitivity (92dB front & 93dB rear) and frequency range differences (45-20KHz front & 55-20KHz rear) between the proposed front MS6A's and rear 457's respectively. Supposing my installation is physically possible, in your opinion would these pair up well soundwise? Sound wise yes, and first I will explain you a little bit about the frequencies: Not sure how the amp in the Edge Limited was designed, but if they included a sub-woofer, most probably they are cutting the freq on the doors around 100Hz mark with a crossover inside the amp, and transferring all the freqs from 100Hz to around 20Hz to the sub-woofer, that is at least what I would do if I were to design it (and even 45Hz, being honest, is a tough figure for a 8" sub-woofer as we have there installed, and probably we are not even getting 45Hz from the sub-woofer neither) and in my opinion there is absolutely no need to waste energy in giving an speaker a freq they can not handle properly, only to create more distortion. As far as I know, and maybe I'm wrong on this, but I have not seen any 6.5" driver in the market, that can handle 45Hz inside a door of a car properly, and even inside a more efficient box, and in a far better geometry, will be really hard for them...55Hz is a more conservative figure, but even though, hard for an small speaker. But 45Hz definitely is a very low Freq, if you look at the specs of any powered sub-woofer nowadays, home or car, that is around the freq they will go...(Not saying that is the way to design a sub-woofer, to me any sub-woofer should go at least to 20Hz clean, but I do not design them...and sometimes if space is an issue you have no other option, drivers of 8", 10" usually do not that low neither...) Now 93, 92db they are all very high sensitivities both, I hardly believe that you will hear any difference as most probably they are misrepresenting them anyway in the specs....and 1DB if I'm not mistaken was set some time ago, as the minimal change in loudness than a human can perceive, so in case they were 100% accurate, being the more sensitive in the back they will be a little louder, which is not bad, as they will be far from your ears....but I do not believe you will hear any difference honestly, this number is not an absolute parameter, they are dependent on the geometry, and placement also, grill covering the front, way of measuring it, noise around, etc...... Edited January 17, 2010 by Kanatronic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tribby2001 Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 (edited) Not sure how the amp in the Edge Limited was designed, but if they included a sub-woofer, most probably they are cutting the freq on the doors around 100Hz mark with a crossover inside the amp, and transferring all the freqs from 100Hz to around 20Hz to the sub-woofer, that is at least what I would do if I were to design it Yes, the Premium System in the Limited includes a 8" subwoofer in the right rear quarter panel. Seems adequate to me at the moment as I am not looking for a big thump. My tastes can be defined as being, er, refined eclecticism :shades: - classical, classic rock and pop, funk, fusion and jazz of all kinds. Hey, check out Hiromi! <snip> Now 93, 92db they are all very high sensitivities both, I hardly believe that you will hear any difference as most probably they are misrepresenting them anyway in the specs....and 1DB if I'm not mistaken was set some time ago, as the minimal change in loudness than a human can perceive, so in case they were 100% accurate, being the more sensitive in the back they will be a little louder, which is not bad, as they will be far from your ears....but I do not believe you will hear any difference honestly, this number is not an absolute parameter, they are dependent on the geometry, and placement also, grill covering the front, way of measuring it, noise around, etc...... OK! Thank you for your feedback. I am releived to know your opinion parallels my thoughts. I just wasn't sure. I ask you since you own DLS speakers but I have never heard them. Read many fine reviews about them from the EU and the US. I like the way silk dome tweeters sound and the fact that the dome design provides better imaging. I have installed Infinity Reference and Kappa 6x8" in my other vehicles. I have found the References to be very good and the Kappas to be a bit boomy. However, both were an improvement over factory "Premium" sound systems. Always in search for something new and improved I'll give DLS a try. So, now that you have had your DLS-457's for some time now, how do you like them over others you have had in the past? Edited January 17, 2010 by Tribby2001 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanatronic Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 Yes, the Premium System in the Limited includes a 8" subwoofer in the right rear quater panel. OK! Thank you for your feedback. I am releived to know your opinion parallels my thoughts. I just wasn't sure. I ask you since you own DLS speakers but I have never heard them. Read many fine reviews about them from the EU and the US. I like the way silk dome tweeters sound and the fact that the dome design provides better imaging. I have installed Infinity Reference and Kappa 6x8" in my other vehicles. I have found the References to be very good and the Kappas to be a bit boomy. However, both were an improvement over the factory "Premium" sound system. Always in search for something better I'll give DLS a try. So, now that you have had your DLS-457's for some time now, how do you like them over others you have had in the past? DLS is a different league from Infinity, DLS is the same league as the top of the line speakers: Skan Speak, Dynaudio, Morel, Vifa, Focal, Seas, etc...Tome the DLS are as refined and as good sounding as a car speaker could be...I have tried other brands and they marginally an improvement, some of the stock speakers nowadays are amde by good manufacturers BTW... Another test, if you have not spent money yet and want to give a shot with no money spenditures, do this, remove the stock ones, and cut the grill in front of them, you will see they are enclosed in plastic grill by default, cut the one that is attached to the speaker, put them back and test them again, trust me that they are not that bad, the draw back that made them sound dull was that they are double grilled, one in front of the speaker, and then the grill from the door, no speaker can sound good if they are behind a curtain of plastic...Of course in comparison to the DLS they are not in the same league, but they are in the same of many others.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tribby2001 Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 (edited) Another test, if you have not spent money yet and want to give a shot with no money spenditures, do this, remove the stock ones, and cut the grill in front of them, you will see they are enclosed in plastic grill by default, cut the one that is attached to the speaker, put them back and test them again, trust me that they are not that bad, the draw back that made them sound dull was that they are double grilled, one in front of the speaker, and then the grill from the door, no speaker can sound good if they are behind a curtain of plastic...Of course in comparison to the DLS they are not in the same league, but they are in the same of many others.... I read your suggestion about this previously. I think every stock Ford speaker is "double grilled". I know what you are sayin'. I think they are also made of paper cones, not sure. Paper is good but not inside a car door residing in extremes of weather. They are also in sealed boxes. This can't be good. BTW, I meant to mention in my previous post, excellent point about the head unit likly redirecting lows below 100Hz to the subamp/woofer. The Premium Sound System is really not that bad. The System is certainly well designed and balanced. Better than previous "Premium" systems in my previous Ford family vehicles of years past. I guess it all depends on each individual's "ear" to decide what constitutes "Premium". My home system spoils me... :violin: :banana piano: Edited January 17, 2010 by Tribby2001 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tribby2001 Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 DLS is a different league from Infinity, DLS is the same league as the top of the line speakers: Skan Speak, Dynaudio, Morel, Vifa, Focal, Seas, etc...Tome the DLS are as refined and as good sounding as a car speaker... Kanatronic, I noticed in the Subwoofer thread here you were looking to "drop in" a new 8" subwoofer. Have you discovered any particular driver that would be appropriate without having to replace the factory subamp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jourabchid Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 (edited) Hey guys. Have any of you used second skin or another dynamat alternative for sound dampening. I noticed in a few pictures there is a black plastic casing on the door, i have yet to take it off, i am wondering if it is glued on or screwed on?, i havent decided if i should remove it and add some dampening material, or just say screw it... Im looking at damplifier lite from second skin, its a reasonable price and doesnt add to much weight to the edge. im planning on doing the doors, and the bare metal where the spare tire is. any feedback would be much appreciated. btw i ordered some Polk MM571 speakers, hopefully they are decent enough to keep me happy. I had CDT audio in my last car and i loved them but finding speakers with a shallow 2.5 inch mounting depth is harder than i thought! Edited January 21, 2010 by jourabchid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tribby2001 Posted January 24, 2010 Report Share Posted January 24, 2010 (edited) any feedback would be much appreciated. If you have the opportunity to install sound deadening material do it. I have used Dynamat in the past only because I know it uses known materials that on a weight for volume basis gives you the most deadening. Keep in mind that most sound deadening materials for the car will enhance your bass. The material lowers the road noise level mostly in the bass range thus making bass in your music more noticeable or slightly louder if you will. But if you aren't as anal about details as I am then use whatever makes sense for your application. Hope this was somewhat helpful. Edited January 24, 2010 by Tribby2001 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jourabchid Posted January 26, 2010 Report Share Posted January 26, 2010 Lex, are your kappas true 6x8 speakers? The reason I'm asking is because they also say 5x7 on then. I bought a pair of Polk mm571 crutchfield advisor said they would fit and they do but there is a tiny air gap on one of the sides. Which I am not approving of. Off to find a different pair. I only like silk dome tweeters and they seem to be harder to find in a 6x8. I may have to go the component route. The door panel is different. Yes it's easy to take odd but the fact the speakers mount to a plastic panel bolted to the door, makes me wonder how much bass I really want goin to the doors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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