Kanatronic Posted November 16, 2008 Report Share Posted November 16, 2008 (edited) Which is the exact size for them? Most fo the sites carry 5x7 and 6x9, but not 5x8??? Aslo does anybody had measured the niminal impedance of the stock ones, the Kappa are rated 2 ohms, before pulling the plug I would like to know of the stock are rated two ohms, does anybody cna maesure them with a multimeter across de leads... I mean, that has much to do with the sensitivity, and overall SPL at a given power, as we do not want to replace the subwoofer? Usually 2 ohms speakers tend to be louder for the same output than a 4 ohms one... Edited November 16, 2008 by Kanatronic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanatronic Posted November 17, 2008 Report Share Posted November 17, 2008 I understand your concern.. but do you think one of the largest electronics sellers with one of the best names in the industry for consumer electronics on the web, who got its start in the car stereo arena, would knowingly advise you to buy a speaker that would damage your system? anyway, the stock speakers are stamped 4 ohm Forget about what a seller can tell you, they are all after sales, specially if they have a good stock of them... I have a little knowledge on audio, working as an audio dealer for a while, and I can tell that if the stock are 4 ohms, the replacement should be 4 ohms as well, unless you are replacing all spekaers including the subwoofer as well for a 2 ohms with similar sesitivity. Otherwise you may create a mismatch in the volume as the 2 ohms tend to be louder than the 4 ohms, at the same volume (unless restricted by the xover) so in other words, they will be overpowering the sound over the subwoofer, messing the integration that you should have among them, unless you have a way to increase the volume of the sub, or decrasing the volume on the speakers, but you have no way of doing it, unless with a dedicated amp.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreamEDGE. Posted November 17, 2008 Report Share Posted November 17, 2008 Infinity's speakers will work with any headunit, they've already tested them and confirmed that running their 2ohm speakers will not cause any damage to anything. I believe the switch on the tweeter changes them from 4 to 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanatronic Posted November 17, 2008 Report Share Posted November 17, 2008 Infinity's speakers will work with any headunit, they've already tested them and confirmed that running their 2ohm speakers will not cause any damage to anything. I believe the switch on the tweeter changes them from 4 to 2. I'm not saying that it will damage the headunit, indeed the headunit have protection for shorting as well, but you create an imbalance in the volume in reference with the subwoofer, the subwoofer is matched to the existing speakers, which are 4 ohms of impednace, placing 2 ohms will make them sound louder in reference to the subwoofer volume...anyway if you like the result good, but I suggest to attach to the riginal impedance 4 ohms, if the Kappa gives you the option, just change them to 4 ohms... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Talionis Posted November 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2008 I believe the switch on the tweeter changes them from 4 to 2. no sir... the rotating tweeter changes the db output level - +0 dB (flat) up to -3 dB - has nada to do with ohm rating adjustment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Talionis Posted November 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2008 Forget about what a seller can tell you, they are all after sales, specially if they have a good stock of them..... not someone like Crutchfiled.. they do as much fitment research and product testing and reviews as any audio provided out there. not only that, they have a great return policy, so nothing in it for them if they just sell you something just to try to sell it to you knowing you can/will just return it. I trust them and find them, if anything, to be more conservative than they need be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanatronic Posted November 17, 2008 Report Share Posted November 17, 2008 not someone like Crutchfiled.. they do as much fitment research and product testing and reviews as any audio provided out there. not only that, they have a great return policy, so nothing in it for them if they just sell you something just to try to sell it to you knowing you can/will just return it. I trust them and find them, if anything, to be more conservative than they need be. Com'on man be serious, they are all sellers, OK let's assume they are among the good ones... According to some research I did the 2ohms rating is just ot take under consideration the loss becasue of the cabling and coil heating, which bumps it a couple of ohms after, so they are basically 4ohms at the end....I'm considering those, a set of JBL's and the Morel tempo, those are my favorites but still need ot find out about the fit...About the returns, IIRC usually mounted speakers with marks are not returnable, so be careful, not to scratch them... BTW they may be conservative and also expensive as hell....LOL... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreamEDGE. Posted November 17, 2008 Report Share Posted November 17, 2008 no sir... the rotating tweeter changes the db output level - +0 dB (flat) up to -3 dB - has nada to do with ohm rating adjustment. It's actually a switch on the newer models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanatronic Posted November 25, 2008 Report Share Posted November 25, 2008 Well yesterday and the day before yesterday I went on a few audio stores around to try to audition a few of the 5x7 they had. After carefully audition of mainly all the brands discussed here: JL, Infinity, Pioneer, Sony, Keenwood, Polk, etc...none of them made me want to upgrade yet. All of them were hooked to a very nice headunits, probably better than the ones in our Edges, and the sound was far from being what I was after (not saying that the stock is good, it is indeed mediocre, but those were not that better as to make go for all the hassle of replacing the speakers myself)....Not sure if Dynaudio and Morel that are really hard to find in front of you to audition, will get me move...Anyway will keep on listening around... I will try to audition some coaxs DLS to see if they make me change my mind, otherwise I thing that Morel will be my second choice as Dynaudio do not make 5x7's, just circular ones... DLS has two models that will fit the 457, and 257. On the 457 the xover is a little bulky, so not sure if we may have space to accomodate it inside the doors...the 257 is more moderate in size, but the tweeters are just 16mm, as opposed to the 25mm silk that they use in the 457... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Talionis Posted November 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2008 I think it is clear, you have a much higher level of interest, knowledge and need than most of us when it comes to sound systems - which is cool, we all have our own "things" we get into. "those were not that better as to make go for all the hassle of replacing the speakers myself" - but, I believe the 'average' guy wanting a nice upgrade would disagree.. as I said, and others seem to have as well, I can hear a world of difference between sucky dead and muted stock and these Infinities and found it well worth the minimal time, effort, cost to replace them. not sure what you need to hear to convince you to take that time, effort, cost, but the Infinities proved it to me. Sure, there are better, nicer and yada yada yada, but it was pretty undeniable, to my average ears, the difference. But, as much as I know about and like audio equipment - which is more than anyone I know personally - you are obviously at the next level and not really the average guy looking for some improvement. you are more of a true enthusiast and might dismiss the improvements that a regular guy would jump to have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanatronic Posted November 25, 2008 Report Share Posted November 25, 2008 I think it is clear, you have a much higher level of interest, knowledge and need than most of us when it comes to sound systems - which is cool, we all have our own "things" we get into. "those were not that better as to make go for all the hassle of replacing the speakers myself" - but, I believe the 'average' guy wanting a nice upgrade would disagree.. as I said, and others seem to have as well, I can hear a world of difference between sucky dead and muted stock and these Infinities and found it well worth the minimal time, effort, cost to replace them. not sure what you need to hear to convince you to take that time, effort, cost, but the Infinities proved it to me. Sure, there are better, nicer and yada yada yada, but it was pretty undeniable, to my average ears, the difference. But, as much as I know about and like audio equipment - which is more than anyone I know personally - you are obviously at the next level and not really the average guy looking for some improvement. you are more of a true enthusiast and might dismiss the improvements that a regular guy would jump to have. LOL....don't take me so serious, probably I'm lazy and was just trying to get an excuse to avoid doing it myself.... :yup: The Infinities, same as a Pioneer I heard, may be better (BTW I liked better the reference series that the new Kappa, the bass was a tad better) I have no doubt of that at all, but not the kind of upgrade I'm after, also consider that we in the stores hear them in a different position than in our cars, and also in a different space and volume, the car while closed, offer a rather small volume to fill with more intimacy, and they are placed in front of our ears, in the store they were almost horizontal in front of us, and the space was a lot more open.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanatronic Posted December 3, 2008 Report Share Posted December 3, 2008 I think it is clear, you have a much higher level of interest, knowledge and need than most of us when it comes to sound systems - which is cool, we all have our own "things" we get into... Lex I have a question about your stock speakers, and for all the enthusiasts of the car audio, I was doing my last research and price hunting here and there and I decided to have a peak at what was installed, and for my surprise it is not what I was expecting, it is not a 5x7/6x8 coaxial, it is indeed a two driver combo mounted in a plate, a tweeter and a round woofer...I was epxecting a single 5x7 driver with no tweeter at all, just a full range or at best a coaxial little cone there... Did any of you by any chance have any close picture of that driver, it resembles the Boston Acoustics SL80 with a covered woofer, saving the sound quality of course... My idea is that why not using that same plate and place a component speaker set in there, removing the internal grill??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Talionis Posted December 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2008 Lex I have a question about your stock speakers, and for all the enthusiasts of the car audio, I was doing my last research and price hunting here and there and I decided to have a peak at what was installed, and for my surprise it is not what I was expecting, it is not a 5x7/6x8 coaxial, it is indeed a two driver combo mounted in a plate, a tweeter and a round woofer...I was epxecting a single 5x7 driver with no tweeter at all, just a full range or at best a coaxial little cone there... Did any of you by any chance have any close picture of that driver, it resembles the Boston Acoustics SL80 with a covered woofer, saving the sound quality of course... My idea is that why not using that same plate and place a component speaker set in there, removing the internal grill??? don't think I can help you... not sure what you mean when you say "Did any of you by any chance have any close picture of that driver".. close picture of what driver? Yes, it is as you describe as far as a combo unit. I ended up selling mine at a garage sale believe it or not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanatronic Posted December 4, 2008 Report Share Posted December 4, 2008 (edited) don't think I can help you... not sure what you mean when you say "Did any of you by any chance have any close picture of that driver".. close picture of what driver? Yes, it is as you describe as far as a combo unit. I ended up selling mine at a garage sale believe it or not LOL...Sorry Lex, "drivers" are also called the speakers, and I was asking for a picture of that stock speaker, as I have not removed mine yet. It seems that it is covered by the grill, not sure if opening that grill will help the sound or not, honestly I would like to see what is inside as they do not seem to bad to me, just a bad bafle design...but anyway will be more work than replacing them, practically talking... I'm contemplating to get some DLS457, as I got a fantastic price for them, even lower than some bulk models from other brands (I used my home audio dealer credentials for that purpose...LOL...) and they have somewhat good reputation soundwise, among the car audio enthusiasts, but my only concern is that they have an external crossover box, like this one in the picture, that is a little too big...Lex do you think that there is any hole where I could locate it? Edited December 4, 2008 by Kanatronic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Talionis Posted December 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2008 (edited) okay.... here you go.. but you know what they say, you can't polish a turd as for the crossover.. that looks a little bulky (depth) compared to mine. and though I am not 100% sure as I do not know the depth of your crossover, it looks like there may be a big enough recessed spot below the speaker or white window motor (where I did mine). see my gallery for photos on the actual inner door, speaker and crossover mount and you might be able to gauge needed space better. but, I think it can be done. Edited December 4, 2008 by Lex Talionis 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanatronic Posted December 4, 2008 Report Share Posted December 4, 2008 okay.... here you go.. but you know what they say, you can't polish a turd As for the crossover.. that looks a little bulky (depth) compared to mine. and though I am not 100% sure as I do not know the depth of your crossover, it looks like there may be a big enough recessed spot below the speaker or white window motor (where I did mine). see my gallery for photos on the actual inner door, speaker and crossover mount and you might be able to gauge needed space better. but, I think it can be done. But we can create a new turd...LOL....They look like these... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Talionis Posted December 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2008 one thing I really like about the Infinities was the ability to twist the tweeter which (1) allows you to change the the db output level but also (2) aim or focus them up at me as they mount so low in the Edge, it seemed like a practical use for an adjustable tweeter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auge.dog Posted December 4, 2008 Report Share Posted December 4, 2008 I would like to replace the stock speakers, and was wondering the following. We have the standard speakers and not the upgraded audiophile option. If you buy the wire harness from Crutchfiled (it is included if you buy the speakers from Crutchfield), and the speakers you buy to replace the stock do not have external crossovers, can you simply plug and play the new speakers? In other words, if you do not have an external crossover, and you have the speaker harness, is there any wire stripping or cutting that is needed? Hopefully, this question makes sense. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Talionis Posted December 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2008 well.. technically, I would say you do not "need" a crossover, so you do not need an external crossover. as for plug and play.. it if comes from Crutchfield and you but the harness, it will be as plug and play is it can be - they make it about as easy as possible. wiring from the head unit will have a pigtail plug, speakers likely do not - would just be exposed wire - so you will have to wire up the pigtail plug on the speaker end I would assume. in my case, it was as simple as stripping 4 wires per door and connecting them up as I chose to cut off the factory pigtail harness so I could include them with the factory speakers when I sold them. so I just installed wire to wire with no harness and thus no pigtail plugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auge.dog Posted December 4, 2008 Report Share Posted December 4, 2008 Thanks, Lex. The way I think it works - you plug in the pigtail plug from the head unit into the receiving end of the harness - and then attache the speaker wires from the harness to the speaker. So what you say makes sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Talionis Posted December 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2008 (edited) Thanks, Lex. The way I think it works - you plug in the pigtail plug from the head unit into the receiving end of the harness - and then attache the speaker wires from the harness to the speaker. So what you say makes sense to me. yes, if they make a specific harness for the Ford Edge, it will certainly have the head unit side pigtail plug and likely even the speaker side already done for your speakers. but, since after-market speaker side plugs could vary speaker to speaker - while the head unit plugs in the Edge are all the same - I am not sure if their harness already comes specific to the Edge and the chosen speakers you buy at the same time or just the Edge side and then a plug you must attach to wires on the speaker side you buy and then plug in. either way.. it is simple whether they come plug and play or you decide to connect wire to wire like I did since I never planned to take them out again so a plug/harness was not a concern for me. helpful if wiring is scary to you, but not really needed in a simple speaker hook-up. Edited December 4, 2008 by Lex Talionis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanatronic Posted December 4, 2008 Report Share Posted December 4, 2008 (edited) well.. technically, I would say you do not "need" a crossover, so you do not need an external crossover. as for plug and play.. it if comes from Crutchfield and you but the harness, it will be as plug and play is it can be - they make it about as easy as possible. wiring from the head unit will have a pigtail plug, speakers likely do not - would just be exposed wire - so you will have to wire up the pigtail plug on the speaker end I would assume. in my case, it was as simple as stripping 4 wires per door and connecting them up as I chose to cut off the factory pigtail harness so I could include them with the factory speakers when I sold them. so I just installed wire to wire with no harness and thus no pigtail plugs. That is not correct, and be careful guys, unless the crossover is integrated into the speaker, that some of them do, it doesn't have to be external, you do need a crossover, of course. The crossover is the device in charge of distributing the freq on the drivers, and make the curve from 20Hz to 20KHz flat, removing the part of the spectrum in which the particular driver is not efficient enough. If you do not have a crossover you will overlap freqs, or part of the spectrum, and you will have a bump in that region, leading to a an uneven sound at the end...please consult the seller to find out if you need crossovers or not...most of the time it is integrated but always ask!!! Edited December 10, 2008 by Kanatronic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Talionis Posted December 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2008 you make a better explanation on the crossover function no doubt, I was more thinking, and thought I explained what I meant, that an "external" crossover is not needed... but I am sure, if he buys from Crutchfield - I know I know they are just a seller - they will steer him into speakers with the correct configuration (crossover no crossover external crossover built in crossover) to run with the standard or audiophile system he has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanatronic Posted December 4, 2008 Report Share Posted December 4, 2008 you make a better explanation on the crossover function no doubt, I was more thinking, and thought I explained what I meant, that an "external" crossover is not needed... but I am sure, if he buys from Crutchfield - I know I know they are just a seller - they will steer him into speakers with the correct configuration (crossover no crossover external crossover built in crossover) to run with the standard or audiophile system he has. External crossovers are really annoying, and they take extra space, and sometimes you do not have it, but given the level of design you have no other choice as the circuit becomes to big to be placed on the speaker itself, specially while the crossover is from higher orders, 12, 18, 24db etc...and include more numbers of parts, but it is true that mostly today are included on the speaker in one way or another, and if they are designed and boxed, they come ready to go. External crossovers are in no way better than the onboard ones, being passive or active, if those others are well designed according to the parameters of the speakers, the problem is that most of the times they are not, and they just drop a 4uF filter in series with the tweeter and period... Also to place an external crossover in an speaker not designed for such system or combination of drivers, is not the way to go neither, as you will not know the parameter of the speakers and the right xover point in any case...see what Boston Acoustics say here regarding some of those nice aftermarket crossovers. Crutchfield are sellers but at the differnce with others, they have tons on information, sometimes useful, and sometimes not that useful, as sometimes the info published by the same manufacturers is not accurate, and as they only use it, if it is wrong, you will get the wrong approach...Also the selction they have on hand of products is not the best you cna get, simply put it this way, the best manufacturers do not like to sell where the competitions is shown, as they tend to have exclusive distributors, that happen in high end home audio as well...One thying is sure with them if they made a mistake, they will try to fix it at least, as they stand behind of what they say and promote... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanatronic Posted December 4, 2008 Report Share Posted December 4, 2008 BTW is there any reliable not so expensive place to purchase the harness that attach the stock speaker to the wire, I do not want to cut it as maybe in the future if I get rid of the car, I will place the stock back, IIRC it is the Metra 72-5512... I would like ot see a pic ti be 100% sure of the shape... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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