Edge vs. Santa Fe Sport vs Sorento - update

[mjonis]

Original thesis:
Replace 2005 Chevy Equinox LT AWD.

Initial requirements for what to replace with:
a) Must be approx. same size (length, height, width)
Must have same "power" (Chevy is a V6)
c) Must get same or better gas mileage
d) Must have heated steering wheel
e) Must have smartphone integration and/or AA/Carplay
d) Must have heated/cool front seats
e) Must have heated rear seats
f) Must have AWD
g) Must NOT be a GM product. Burned by GM too much with this car

Based upon initial "must haves", and web research (did look on the web at Lexus, Acura, Toyota Highlander),
the initial list:

Ford Edge
Subaru Outback/Forester
Nissan Murano
Hyundai Santa Fe Sport

Initial I test drove:
2015 Ford Edge SEL (nobody had the Titanium) w/ecoboost
2016 Subaru's (fully loaded)
2015 Nissan Murano Platinum
2016 Hyundai SFS 2.0 Turbo w/tech AWD
2016 Kia Sorento SXL Turbo

ALL vehicles are AWD and fully loaded.

Immediately ruled out the Subaru's for 2 reasons:
a) No heated steering wheel
Both have Very loud engine/road noise. 85db on the Outback and lots
of wind noise (problem on that year model).

Of the 4 remaining, I liked the Nissan the best, although it was slightly larger
but the V6 and gas mileage, coupled with very stylish interior made it my first
choice. However, lack of ANY smartphone integration killed it. Nissan disabled
all Nissan Connect features in their Platinum (or anything with the NAV head unit)
for no apparent reason. to this day, even the 2016 models have all those features
disabled. Only Google Search works. Nissan refuses to say why or when (if ever) they
will re-enable. Rumor is that the 2017 will have AA/Carplay.

OK, so that leaves 3.

Of the 3, it was almost a tie with the Ford/Kia. However, massive QA issues with the 2015
(water leaks, tail light condensation, etc) and that Sync 3 was coming out, kinda ruled that
out. I decided to wait until next year.

So now we are "next year". Was going to wait ANOTHER year and maybe pick up a used "whichever"
one won on this round. But the Chevy POS Lemonox said otherwise (more repairs).

Testing Methodology:
Originally used Samsung Galaxy S4 with sound meter app, and g-force app to measure loudness in db
and "smoothness" in g-forces. Drove same route (from home to work, turn around, come back). Gives
good mix of low/high speeds, and lots of potholes. This was to provide objective data for how loud
something was.

Also input data into spreadsheet and finally assigned weighting and scores. Weighting because not
all items are "as important" as others, but they do make a difference--to me.

Ultimately by this Sunday will make a decision in terms of ranking #1, #2, #3. Then we start
with the negotiations. There is almost an $8k price difference between the lowest MSRP (Hyundai)
and the highest (Kia). That may be a factor if my #1 can't be purchased for what I want.

2016 Ford Edge Titanium, 302A, Driver's Pkg, Cold Weather Pkg, Ecoboost
Finally found a dealer locally with a 2016 Ford Edge Titanium with 302A package. However, it's
white (ugh) and doesn't have the Driver's Package. But for test drive purposes, it will suffice.
It did not seem as quiet/smooth as the 2015 SEL that I remember. Unfortunately I also switched
smartphones from Android (Samsung Galaxy S4) to iPhone 6s, so my sound meter measurements and
g-force measurements from before were off. (different apps, different phones). Seat backs
did not cool at all. This is a known issue. Requires TSB and also third-party product $350 to
actually fix. Taking a 2nd test drive this weekend to reconfirm. As it currently stands, main
cons with the Ford are lack of availability. Only one dealer in a 100 mile radius has an Edige
Titanium with 302A, drivers package, cold weather package. Unfortunately it's in a color I don't
particularly want (red) and has 20" rims. All the other dealers that have a color I want with the
packages (regardless of tire size) are all V6 engines, not ecoboost. This may be a major issue
as it will hamper price negotiations. Overall I like the exterior and interior styling of the Ford.
I like a lot of the features. My biggest dislikes: No fog lights, have to purchase extra modules
for smartphone remote start, have to purchase extended warranty, possible QA issues still with fit/trim,
and random squeeks/noises. I hate random squeeks/noises.

2017 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport AWD 2.0 Turbo Ultimate w/tech Package
Hyundai has updated the 2017 model with AA/Carplay support, added DRL, more comfortable seats (or
so they say), and seems to have smoothed the ride and noise compared to the 2016 model year. However
sales guy was blabbing the whole time so taking another test drive this weekend sans sales guy. Overall
this vehicle is the best value for the money, IMO. I like the exterior look and interior look. Slight
turbo lag. Regular Santa Fe is too large and I don't want third row or really bad gas mileage that it has.
It's even larger than the Murano, which was my max size. While it has remote smartphone app via BluLink,
it has most annoying feature of requiring the doors be locked, and while the car is running it flashes your
hazard lights. Apparently lots of people have had police/security/etc. called because "someone's car
has the hazard lights on and nobody's there". Would require aftermarket solution to bypass. Some 2017
Santa Fe (I think 18 or 23 complaints to NHTSA so far) have acceleration issues. There is confusion
as to if the Sport is affected, I see 2 complaints on the forums about it. Supposedly Hyundai has a programming
fix, but it's not for the Sport. This could be a serious issue (almost getting hit, etc.). Did not
observe during test drive, but that doesn't mean anything. Since the fix for the Santa Fe appears to have
worked, lurking to see what the Sport outcome is. Local dealers do have units in stock with the color I want.
Don't particularlyl care for the gas pedal that's attached to the floor. Makes it impossible to get any floor
mat to go behind it, so the salt in the winter will drip onto the actual carpet. Kia has same issue.

2017 Kia Sorento SXL V6 Limited
Taking test drive this weekend. Shortage in our immediate local area (50 miles) of V6. Supposedly unit is
back-ordered due to V6 parts (remember Kia discontinued the Turbo version, so you can only get V6 version).
If I remember from the 2016 test drive, it was just as quiet/smooth as the Ford, if not slightly more so. I
love the surround-view camera (much better than the "self-parking") and 10 year warranty. Things about the
2017 I do not like: possibly poor gas mileage (although the few "combined" reports on the Fuelly website
indicate it's getting better than stated--this may be due to Kia being very conservative on EPA statements since
they got in trouble a few years ago for overstating results). Don't like loss of storage space underneath
cargo due to mandatory 3rd row seats. The interior styling is NOT sleek at all. For some reason neither
is the Lexus or other "high end" SUV. Dunno why. Also most expensive MSRP of all. But it has so many
features. Don't like missing the DRL though. I think I'd rather have fogs more than DRL. Same issue as
Hyundai with gas pedal. But seeing no complaints (yet) about QA issues with 2017. Only complaints about
2016 were with the Panoramic roof (edge has same issues that I see). Kia supposedly has a long-term fix
but it requires complete replacement of the entire glass/rails/panel assembly. For some reason Hyundai doesn't
seem to have the issue.


Things I have to do for test drives this weekend:
re-measure loudness/smoothness
Sit in the car for 30-45 minutes whilst playing with the infotainment area. This will let me observe how
"comfortable" the seats are vs. a 15 minute test drive. I found out my roomate's 2014 Hyundai has the most
uncomfortable driver seat after about 30 minutes (the end is up "too high" even at its lowest setting for me
and it puts too much pressur on my thigh).


So here's my spreadsheet as it stands. (ignore the lease calcs/price stuff, I was just playing "what if").

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-gsOu2-WzByy2qsJcD4xNMaOb8kKvCepkbwIB7splFc/edit?usp=sharing

 

 

[akirby]

So I take it you're not an impulse buyer?

[mjonis]

So I take it you're not an impulse buyer?

 

LOL! I sometimes am, but I did that with my Lemonox and I've regretted it ever since.

 

Plus it's a huge chunk 'o money for me.

[zillafreak]

Have you looked at the Honda CRV?

I am not 100% it meets your list.

http://cars.axlegeeks.com/compare/34905-49291/2005-Chevrolet-Equinox-AWD-vs-2016-Honda-CR-V

a) Must be approx. same size (length, height, width) Chevy has inch more headroom, honda has .1" more leg room in front, chevy has 1.5" more headroom and 1.9" more legroom in back seats
Must have same "power" (Chevy is a V6) Chevy V6 is 185hp/210ft-lbs, Cr-V is 185hp, 181ft-lbs.
c) Must get same or better gas mileage Chevy is 23/17, honda is 31/25
d) Must have heated steering wheel, no clue
e) Must have smartphone integration and/or AA/Carplay, no clue
d) Must have heated/cool front seats, only has heated front seats on the higher models.
e) Must have heated rear seats don't see this.
f) Must have AWD Honda has AWD
g) Must NOT be a GM product. Burned by GM too much with this car

[mjonis]

Have you looked at the Honda CRV?

I am not 100% it meets your list.

http://cars.axlegeeks.com/compare/34905-49291/2005-Chevrolet-Equinox-AWD-vs-2016-Honda-CR-V

a) Must be approx. same size (length, height, width) Chevy has inch more headroom, honda has .1" more leg room in front, chevy has 1.5" more headroom and 1.9" more legroom in back seats

Must have same "power" (Chevy is a V6) Chevy V6 is 185hp/210ft-lbs, Cr-V is 185hp, 181ft-lbs.

c) Must get same or better gas mileage Chevy is 23/17, honda is 31/25

d) Must have heated steering wheel, no clue

e) Must have smartphone integration and/or AA/Carplay, no clue

d) Must have heated/cool front seats, only has heated front seats on the higher models.

e) Must have heated rear seats don't see this.

f) Must have AWD Honda has AWD

g) Must NOT be a GM product. Burned by GM too much with this car

 

Yes, I did originally, but it's 9" shorter in length. However, I will admit that if it's 9" shorter, it still has the "same" amount of cargo space (or so they claim), but that may come at the expense of the 2nd row legroom.

 

Which reminds me, I need to measure that too. One of the few redeeming qualities of my POS is that it has/had the most legroom in 2nd row at the time. I'll have to write that down on the spreadsheet and actually sit in the back with the front seat back all the way and see if my knees touch.

[zillafreak]

Check that axlegeek, you can use to compare many specs between many cars. Such as hp, mpg, space, etc.

[mjonis]

Check that axlegeek, you can use to compare many specs between many cars. Such as hp, mpg, space, etc.

 

Will check it out, but they don't seem too accurate so far. They're stating that some vehicles like the 2017 Kia Sportage SX Turbo doesn't have heated front seats, when it's a standard feature.

[junehhan]

You can get a heated steering wheel on the Subaru Outback 3.6r Touring. That and the STI was what I was considering before deciding on the Edge Sport. If you want a big grin on your face each time you blow away a ricer kid with a fart can exhaust, the Sport has V6 power in a big way.

[mjonis]

I'm fine with any comments on the spreadsheet if anyone has anything. My roomate suggested I change some of the weightings because it didn't make much sense to give my "must haves" a 4 or a 5 for a weighting and then give some of the "nice to have" a 4 weighting as well. That would imply they weight the same, which would imply that it's "equal", and in my mind, a "must have" is more important than a "nice to have".

 

Also warranty should be considered. Not sure if I'll leave that as a deciding factor or not. Obviously Kia/Hyundai have same 10-year warranty. If it comes to that (warranty between Ford and the others) I'll see if the dealer would throw in the 10-year warranty at no charge, and if not, then it gets dinged.

 

Looking at the pictures, I'm really dis-liking the interior steering wheel controls/console of the Kia more and more, but we'll see once I actually drive it. I look at the interior of my car now and think it's hideous, but at the time, it wasn't too bad (haha)--at least compared to the Toyota Highlander I test drove back in 2005.

 

From what I can tell, Ford is less likely to deal as compared to Kia/Hyundai, at least based upon Truecar sales. It seems a very good chance to get a 10-12% discount off MSRP vs. Ford at like 4%.

 

We shall see.

 

[junehhan]

Remember that there is a reason why the Korean cars need to be so heavily discounted. The market has judged that the Edge is better and thus supply meets demand at a higher price point.

[zillafreak]

There is a reason the korean cars will give a deal on their car compared to ford. The korean cars are not that great and they are cheaply made. They might look fancy, but if you put lipstick on a pig, it is still a pig.

My girl use to have a KIA before she got her Pilot, I will never own a KIA because of it. Everything about it just pissed me off, the looks, the interior, the ergo, the lack of power, the cheapness of everything.

[mjonis]

Remember that there is a reason why the Korean cars need to be so heavily discounted. The market has judged that the Edge is better and thus supply meets demand at a higher price point.

 

Well, not sure that's true any longer. Consumer reports rated the Kia Sorento 2016 the #1 "mid-size" SUV (I think that's the category). I believe the Ford was #7 or #8 on that list?

 

http://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability/most-and-least-reliable-cars-by-class/?loginMethod=auto

(although the above is only for one year instead of 3, so I take that with a grain of salt)

 

http://www.consumerreports.org/cars/best-cars-top-picks-2016/

 

Also, JDPower's reliability rating for 2016 (based upon the previous 3 years) has Ford #31 out of 32. Only Dodge had more repairs/100 cars or something. Kia and Hyundai were like #7 and #8.

 

http://www.jdpower.com/press-releases/2016-us-vehicle-dependability-study-vds

 

That being said, we'll see which one comes out on top, and then deal with pricing. If #1 can't get me my price, then I'll just go to choice #2.

 

If Ford is chosen, they're going to have to go below invoice, especially factoring that an "equivalent" warranty is going to cost around $800, plus the $360 for the 3rd party seat cooling fix issue.

 

But we'll see.

 

[zillafreak]

If you buy a new car at list price, you failed.

[TheWizard]

Having had a 2015 Sorento EX V6 for almost two years now, I can offer a few comments about them...

 

The V6 mileage has been outstanding compared to what we expected based on the EPA ratings and it seems to be mostly unaffected by increased speed. We get 30+ mpg on the highway whether we're going 70mph or close to 80.

 

The seats are a mixed bag - they are quite comfortable when sitting up but can become uncomfortable when slouching a bit. This is because of the seat cooling module which is mounted under the bottom cushion and creates a hard ridge in the cushion. The seat heating/cooling works great.

 

The electronics have been updated since the '15 model but they are still nowhere near state of the art. Simple things that we took for granted with our Edge are not even on Kia's radar. For example, with two drivers we became used to the seats and mirrors changing depending on which remote was used. Our Kia salesman had never heard of such a thing - you have to press a numbered button to switch settings. And the settings can only be saved if the vehicle is in park. You can't save the settings if you adjust the seat or mirrors while driving. Granted, those are minor annoyances but they show a lack of planning on the part of the designers.

 

I'm not sure I would have chosen the turbo engine even if that choice had been available to us. We test drove the Hyundai with it (same engine) and found that the V6 was smoother and quieter with more power and about the same torque. Considering that the fuel economy is similar (ours ended up actually higher), we felt the V6 was a better choice and have been happy with that decision.

 

Just as a side comment... the lack of DRLs is easily overcome - I posted instructions on how to convert the fog lights to DRL use on the Kia forum. Some wire and a relay is all it takes.

Edited August 26, 2016 by TheWizard

[James Costa]

From what I can tell, Ford is less likely to deal as compared to Kia/Hyundai, at least based upon Truecar sales. It seems a very good chance to get a 10-12% discount off MSRP vs. Ford at like 4%.

 

Like you, I did some pretty thorough comparisons between cars too when I was buying a few months ago. I got about 10% off MSRP on my 2016 Edge SEL AWD. Just gotta work em a bit ... especially with the 2017's about to come out. Work them against other brands (which you are), against other dealerships, against other sales people, and against the internet sales teams (even at the same dealership, or not). Also, may or may not still be active, but if you are considering the Edge, put in your email address on the Ford Edge website and in a few days corporate may send you a $750 off code. Use it as your 'ace in the hole' after you are 'done' negotiating, it should stack as cash back. ^_^ If not that, it may be a different offer, but they almost always have something brewing.

 

Best of luck! Looking forward to seeing what you come up with. I'm really happy with my AWD Edge and am definitely biased toward it!

[akirby]

The JD Power survey is for 2013 vehicles and 2013 was a terrible year for Ford. Fusion and MKZ were all new and had lots of problems although none serious. Focus and Escape were only a year old on their new platform and also had some issues. MFT was still having some stability issues.

 

They're still having too many issues - throttle bodies, vista roofs, door latches, ptus, etc. but they're a lot closer to average now not dead last.

[junehhan]

The JD Power survey is for 2013 vehicles and 2013 was a terrible year for Ford. Fusion and MKZ were all new and had lots of problems although none serious. Focus and Escape were only a year old on their new platform and also had some issues. MFT was still having some stability issues.

 

They're still having too many issues - throttle bodies, vista roofs, door latches, ptus, etc. but they're a lot closer to average now not dead last.

Not just that, but those surveys do not reflect reality. They penalize things such as infotainment software quirks almost as severely as major mechanical problems. Those surveys also have to be taken as a grain of salt because they are short term. Unless you are me, most people tend to hold their cars more than 2 or 3 years.

[mjonis]

OK, took a few early test drives today, but still going to the Ford place tomorrow.

 

Everything's been calculated and measured, etc.

 

If I go solely on my scoring (I did modify a few things like the weighting because it didn't make sense to have some "nice to have" items with "4" for a weighting when the must have also had 4's):

 

Ford comes in #1 at a score of 2,010

Hyundai next at a score of 1,971

and Kia last at a score of 1,943

 

Overall, I could be "happy" with any one of the 3. I think the Ford would be "happier" (not counting scores, just overall "gut" feel). I'd put Kia last as well by "gut".

 

Biggest cons for Ford:

Extra cost for warranty (about $800)

Extra cost to have seats that actually cool (I think it's $340 for the 2-seat kit)--plus the time to install it

Extra cost for smartphone remote start (I think around $350 as well)

 

Biggest Cons for Hyundai:

Ride was not quite as quiet (only 4-5 db on average, however)

Front seat thigh support seems a bit stiff, but I am going to futz with the seat some more, but WAY better than the 2014.

AC and seat cooling isn't as "cool" as the Ford (for AC) or Kia (for both). But at least the seats DO cool. I had all 3 vehicles at the lowest fan speed and the Ford and Kia froze my ass off (well fingers actually).

 

Biggest Cons for Kia:

Headrests are NOT adjustable (Kia's website and manual lie). It was extremely uncomfortable to drive/sit with my head tilted forward. I either had to recline the seat to the point my arms were stretched out or suffer. (BTW similar complaints on the Kia forums about this). Only "solution" *may* be to buy the 2016 headrests and swap them out.

Interior Console is just ugh (highly subjective/personal) compared to the other two. Steering wheel controls are just atrocious. TWO sets on each side of "roller" bars, plus buttons. It's not a "bad" car, but even the 15 minute trip to work I had a headache from the damn headrest. No auto-DRL is sucky too. I pulled into the garage and you can't see crap. You have to wait like 30-45 seconds for the stupid sensor to detect the "dark" to switch on the headlights.

 

All vehicles had the same ride quality (or perceived by the g-force meter in terms of bumps moving the car). They all felt different (don't know how else to describe it). I thought they all had "bumps" that were perceived, just differently. Given the above, I'm ruling the Kia out. It is in NO way worth the extra $8k price difference, IMO, especially given that it scored lower than the Ford, and the Ford is $5500 (MSRP) price difference. Based on MSRP of course. Heck even if they discounted it 10% and got it down to 40k, and Ford only down to 42k, I'd still take the Ford over the Kia.

 

Now the question:

 

The Hyundai dealer gave me an offer (nothing's signed, no credit report, I can sense he's kinda hungry so maybe I can squeez some more== it's just an offer) for almost 15% below MSRP. And what I "wanted" on Trade-in. This comes in below Truecar, and *my* acceptable # of 10% (you'll notice when I did the spreadsheet I assumed a 10% discount). I feel it's a fair offer. It's in my #2 color choice. Only one other dealer in the area has one (meaning no others in any color with the config I want in the area). Granted, could probably order one. I could use this as leverage, I dunno, but we'll see.

 

So, is the Ford "worth" almost $10,500 more (compared to the current Hyundai offer, excluding trade-in), given the extra costs involved?

 

I don't think so. But that's personal opinion. I don't think it's even worth $7k more.

 

However, to clear my conscience, I emailed the Internet Sales guy (whom I've already met twice and am seeing tomorrow as part of my meeting) basically saying:

 

Here's the config I want, here's my list of color choices (exterior) and interior (in order of preference)

I want $X for the trade-in (same as what Hyundai would give me)

I want 10-year PSP PremiumCare at no additional charge

I want the smartphone remote start at no additional charge

and I will offer $34,000 before tax/title/registration

 

I highly doubt they'll take it, but I personally don't think they will. That's $3500 more than the Hyundai (before tax/title/registration) which is what I think a slightly quieter ride and better infotainment system is worth.

 

So I think that's where things stand at this point.

[mjonis]

Without quoting myself (ha!), I slightly miscalculated. This actually works in Ford's favor I think.

 

The Hyundai offer was a large chunk of rebates, that could not be combined with special financing. I ran the numbers (to see which was better, full rebates, and regular financing, or partial rebates and special financing) and I realized:

 

I FORGOT to calculate the TOTAL price including interest.

 

Ford has 0% APR, and the dealer can probably get me the $1,000 cash back.

 

Anyway, I think Ford may have a shot, but it also gives me ammo to the Hyundai "offer" because of the pricing difference with the interest.

 

I think I win either way, but I'm now kinda hoping that Ford pulls through.

[junehhan]

Keep in mind that the $1000 rebate is harder to get than you might realize because it is only Edges that have aged out on the dealer lots. It is essentially ones that have remained in dealer inventory for 120+ days if I am correct. The Edge is hot selling in my region and my dealer even told me that they have nothing that has sat on the lot that long. I am rooting for the Ford because I am biased and would hate to see you drive something less.

[mjonis]

Well, it is done.

 

Unfortunately, while I liked the Ford the best, I could not justify spending almost $10k more vs. my #2 - the Hyundai Santa Fe Sport.

 

I was willing to go up to even $4500 more, but because it's end of year, a nationwide search on Ford's dealer locator (the guy showed me) only yielded ONE Ford Edge Titanium, AWD, 2.0 L Ecboost, with 302A, Driver's Pkg, and Cold weather pkg. One in the "area". All the others were out of state (like Arizona and elsewhere). Because of that, the dealers have little room to deal. The "best" deal was 40k which included $4500 for my trade-in. But that still left me having to spend about $800 for extended warranty, another $350 for parts to fix the seat cooling issue, and another $500 or so for the remote start. At that point, the "total price" would've been about $41,750. Before tax, title, registration. Hyundai before tax, title registration: 30k.

 

On the plus side, I got my Hyundai seat issue fixed. Apparently I did not realize that I sit very close to my steering wheel in my own car (because it doesn't have telescoping steering wheel). As such, I was sitting with the Hyundai steering wheel "out" too far, which made my legs stretch. I pushed the steering wheel in further and then I could move the seat up more and raise my legs. And the AC issue must've either been the model I test drove (it was still in plastic), but the model I bought (I did test drive today) worked fine.

 

So I am a happy camper. If money was no object, I would've taken the Ford, but in my old age, I look at things a little more practically now.

 

Thank you ALL for answering all my questions. The Ford is a fine vehicle, even if it's missing a lot of features of my Hyundai (and to be true, Hyundai's missing some features of the Ford).

 

Who knows, maybe in 3 years I sell mine and buy a used 2016 Edge.

 

[cv27]

I rented a SantaFe (limited, mind you) this summer for a 6000 km trek and was very impressed. I found a few features on the Hyundai that were missing on my Edge (actually working cooled seats), but overall I wouldn't trade my Edge for a Hyundai. Personal criteria are by nature subjective and at the end of the day, what counts, is your personal feeling, regardless of technical features. As an example, we were looking for a replacement vehicle for my wife . I thought the Escape was the One, did what you did, calculating and weighting, but my wife said "I don't feel good in this car" and we went for a Tucson.

 

So good choice!

[mjonis]

I rented a SantaFe (limited, mind you) this summer for a 6000 km trek and was very impressed. I found a few features on the Hyundai that were missing on my Edge (actually working cooled seats), but overall I wouldn't trade my Edge for a Hyundai. Personal criteria are by nature subjective and at the end of the day, what counts, is your personal feeling, regardless of technical features. As an example, we were looking for a replacement vehicle for my wife . I thought the Escape was the One, did what you did, calculating and weighting, but my wife said "I don't feel good in this car" and we went for a Tucson.

 

So good choice!

 

Amen! Yes, for *me* it's good.

 

I have no regerts (that commercial).

 

I will say I envy those of you that the Edge though. It's a VERY nice car. Just wish the dealers would've had stock and could've played "lets make a deal".

 

THANK YOU ALL for answering all my questions. This is the best Edge forum out there!!!!

[b4z]

Does the Hyundai product feel substantial or creaky? How is the road noise? This has been a very serious problem in the past for them. What about the quality of the materials inside? This has been a problem for them as well, interiors didn't hold up. I am also looking at the 2017 gmc acadia. Because it has 42 cu ft. In the cargo area.

Edited October 6, 2016 by b4z

[akirby]

If you're looking at an Acadia you should consider an Explorer as well.