Car suddenly won't start - My DIY Mission to resolve

[mrtm2016]

2007 Ford Edge SE. Very first, very basic. But it works. Hopefully this will help somebody out there.. I know this has been a frustration of mine for quite some time now. Here's the abridged version.

 

 

 

Never worked on cars before - fast learner and attention to detail.

 

1. Transmission seemed to start slipping; didn't do anything about it until seemed to be persistent/safety concern.

2. Drained Transmission oil (there's a simple drain plug on bottom of transaxle, sticks out) and refilled. Required 10 quarts, though about 1.5 quarts remained from the old fluid, so needed to drain some of the extra to level off correctly. Did NOT see metal flakes in the old (disgustingly black) transmission oil. Smelled burnt, definitely not a lifetime oil, and serious concern for transmission health. Transmission works fine, it just seems the car is getting old and worn and should be handled with more care than previously given (don't drive as a performance car if it ain't designed for it).

3. Week later, car slow to start. By third time starting it that day, won't start and need jump from running vehicle. Battery is only a year old, under warranty got it replaced. THEN, five days later, car SUDDENLY really slow to start.. obvious problem. Don't want to bother auto store with more battery tests, talk to mechanics at Jiffy lube and listen to car.. Diagnosis:

 

- No normal signs of Alternator issues

- Starter is turning, probably not the issue, could be though since alternator seems not to be source

- Fuel pump likely culprit (but ford put them inside the gas tank, so that's a pain in the ass and unrealistic to fix)

 

Go back to get battery tested, it's completely dead. Considering new option..

 

4. Replaced starter. When starting first time, it sounds like the engine has a better grasp and run on itself, though it's still slow to start. Take it back to Auto store, run test, battery dead. That's only 6 days with the new battery. It's now believed that there's likely an electrical issue that's causing the battery to drain.

 

CURRENT DAY..

 

Through a post on this thread I've determined it's possible to service your own fuel pump, but that the electrical issue may just be the wires feeding into the fuel pump, causing it to slow possibly from corrosion or a blockage of some sort. Learned that you can take out the seats, but it's a sweaty job in TX.

 

5. Fuel Pump inspection.. HOW TO GET THERE..

a. take out floor in back

b. take out smaller rear passenger-side seat first (will need deep socket wrenches and some legit strength, some of those nuts are tight), THEN driver-side rear seat.

c. BE SURE TO UNHOOK ELECTRICAL CONNECTORS TO SEATS.

d. lift carpet and use regular phillips screw head to open floor to access fuel pump electrical connections..

 

 

.. Resuming in the afternoon.

 

I seriously lack in electrical knowledge, but I grew up around people who understood it so I feel confident I can atleast recognize if there's a legit burn or corrosion.

 

 

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

How many miles on your Edge? Any devices plugged into the power outlets and always on? Can you get access to a digital load tester like the Solar BA5 or BA7? That would check the alternator and battery for you. Could be wiring in between the alternator and the battery as well. The battery should show 12.6V across the terminals with all devices & engine turned off. Check 1/2 hr after engine is turned off, to allow modules to go to sleep.

 

There is a video that macbwt made re Alternator replacement, should you need to do so.

[mrtm2016]

Hey there. About 116k, bought used at 67k from the dealer. Never had any issues until recently. I'm considering replacing spark plugs as well. Thanks, I'll check for the Alternator replacement, but the battery itself is holding a charge, it's just that when I try to start it's having a serious issue starting. When I turn the A/C off it seems to alleviate the battery load and then get enough power to somewhere else to get the engine going. Doesn't start with the A/C on.

 

I went to the auto store and they ran a test that said it wasn't the alternator. ran it twice. said it was just a dead battery and then had it replaced, which means something has to be draining it, yeah?

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

There could very well be an amp draw from somewhere draining the battery. And AC is a very heavy draw. Could be any number of modules not turning off like they are supposed to, including the Body Control Module, Climate Control Module, etc. Aftermarket components (especially audio systems) are notorious for causing battery drains. Could be a short in the system, and usually that involves methodically pulling fuses one by one to figure out where the amp draw is coming from.

 

I wouldn't necessarily trust what the store had to say. I would want to verify for myself. A basic digital voltmeter should be in your toolkit at minimum. I suggest the load tester because it is not tied to any one vehicle make/model in any way (well maybe not for hybrids ...), so it will pay off in time.

[macbwt]

Just to be sure the auto store tested the alternator under load with AC, LIghts, radio, interior fans all running? Do not turn on wipes as they are intermittent and can cause varied readings. My issue resulted in the alternator not showing it's full potential and if I did not pay real close attention a quick check would of slid me in the wrong direction. My alternator was putting out charge but under load is was good enough to not send a low battery system light but just enough not to charge the battery under load so when the Edge was running it was draining the battery. Real tricky deal. Once I replaced the alternator the battery problem disappeared.

 

Hey there. About 116k, bought used at 67k from the dealer. Never had any issues until recently. I'm considering replacing spark plugs as well. Thanks, I'll check for the Alternator replacement, but the battery itself is holding a charge, it's just that when I try to start it's having a serious issue starting. When I turn the A/C off it seems to alleviate the battery load and then get enough power to somewhere else to get the engine going. Doesn't start with the A/C on.

 

I went to the auto store and they ran a test that said it wasn't the alternator. ran it twice. said it was just a dead battery and then had it replaced, which means something has to be draining it, yeah?

[macbwt]

This and about 140 videos on the Edge.

[mrtm2016]

Okay, so I've taken out the fuel pump and inspected it but it seems not to be an electrical issue. I went ahead and ordered a replacement while I'm here.. I'd like the car to last a long time so might as well replace it since I'm here and it seems like the filter is dirty. Getting it on Friday so will post with an update.

 

Alternator:: never had the check engine light come on, though we did do a load test while checking the first new battery before replacement.. It came back to say the alternator was fine. No regular signs of alternator issue with lights dimming and such. Didn't turn the wipers on during test. Revved up the engine to about 1.5 - 2k RPMs and had the stereo and ac and lights all on at the same time. When the car is off, actually, the remote locks respond a lot quicker now with the new battery and it hasn't drained at all it would seem. Just still slow to start.

 

I've got no after-market parts. But what's this one-by-one testing? I may do that.. I'm not the most experienced with electrical equipment, would be scared of shocking myself without trusted starting information.

 

I'm also replacing all the spark plugs. The first three I've taken out seems to be decently worn - figured that's an easy thing to switch out while the car is stalled anyway. Haven't had an misfires, but who knows - mileage has been shitty for the last year so this could likely be a cause of the issue, battery issues aside.

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

The one by one simply refers to pulling one fuse at a time to check if the current draw at the battery drops when everything is off.

[macbwt]

Locate your body to frame grounds and remove them, Clean them and the contact areas and re-attach them. If you want to go the whole way on the testing. test your grounds before you clean them and then after. you may very well have a bad ground as far as the starting issue. Check other positive connections also. As things rust and get old contact can be lost.

[mrtm2016]

Thanks guys!

[mrtm2016]

Okay, so I got a new fuel pump in the mail from Amazon: TOPSCOPE FP2470M - Fuel Pump Module Assembly E2470M fits 2007 2008 2009 2010 FORD EDGE, LINCOLN MKX https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01DM6IQE0/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Amazon said it didn't fit but the same model for Advance Auto Parts and others said it was fine. The only difference I noticed was the protrusion at the bottom.

 

 

I assumed it was a change made after release for easier fuel consumption, but I could be wrong. Here's a picture of my old pump. And the new one is on that page. I'm still having problems with starting the damned car and I'm honestly about to lose it. I've replaced the starter, the fuel pump, spark plugs, battery, and so it looks like it's either an electrical issue (which I'm not gonna diagnose myself, unless it's really as easy as you guys say it is) or the Alternator.

 

Also, side note. The new pump doesn't float on top like the old one did. It's extended all the way to the bottom of the tank and you can hear the hum it makes vibrating the tank. Is this normal for a new pump or did I neglect to pull out a stopper at some point? K thanks. Appreciate the help guys!

Edited August 26, 2016 by mrtm2016

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

Do you have AWD? Then this pump should fit. Will not fit FWD. Might be the difference right there.

[mrtm2016]

Pretty sure I have a FWD vehicle. So lame. But yet, the pump has been working... is having that extra valve at the bottom going to ruin the engine??

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

No idea. But vibration in a fuel tank is never a good thing.

Edited August 27, 2016 by WWWPerfA_ZN0W

[mrtm2016]

Good point. Okay, so let me see if I can run it back up, may use the old fuel pump for now.. I do have an enquiry.

 

I got a multimeter and tested the Alternator.. Connecting the positive end to Alternator and negative end to negative battery terminal it read a pretty solid 13.58, sometimes dropping to 13.42 but not often. Suggestions?

 

macbwt, I'm confused what you're suggesting I do with the grounds testing. What exactly does that mean? Please excuse my noobishness. I'd rather take your word than research online if you are able to provide me a clear example. Thanks!

[macbwt]

You should be running 14.1+ or minus for voltage at the alternator. You need a good tester as you can be lured the wrong way with just a voltmeter.

 

You need to trace the negative terminals for body ground and engine ground. Find the fastening points and then remove them and clean the surfaces. Then refasten them to ensure you have a good ground to the body and engine. Rust and corrosion can weaken the ground and cause issues.

[mrtm2016]

Okay, so aside of the type of multi-meter I'm using, dirty terminals would mean that the testing is inaccurate, not the alternator voltage, yes?

[macbwt]

Once you get your alternator tested under load and it is not determined to be the issue you will need to check your grounds for continuity. If ground continuity is not an issue.

 

You will need to then place your multi meter to the battery to determine drain of voltage. There should be a small drain of voltage. I have not tested to see what the acceptable amount of drain is. You then have to locate the source of the HIGH drain and that will be your problem.

 

Just for reference my alternator puts out about 14.2- 14.4 volts when systems are operating and I am driving. As the length of my drive increases and the battery is fully recharged it will drop to about 13 volts at highway speed. I doubt you drive like I do so your target voltage is most likely going to be 14.2 or so.

[mrtm2016]

Ah. The battery rests at 13.99 when running and the alternator is just about that. If the alternator voltage runs lower than the battery, is that a bad thing?

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

What is the battery voltage with everything turned off? Check 30+ minutes after everything is turned off. That will tell you if the battery is holding charge.

[mrtm2016]

Okay. So I replaced the alternator, serpentine belt, and some of the rivets in the flywheel because I broke some with my hammer getting angry learning how to reinstall them...

 

I'll check with the multimeter and post it for you tomorrow.. if i remember correctly it was still reading 13.99 last I checked.

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

Flywheel? What's that all about?

[enigma-2]

Been following this thread, I may have missed it, but did you ever pull the codes? You will definitely get codes for a no-start, what were they?

[macbwt]

I am confused (officially) so you pulled the engine to change the serpentine belt and then beat on the fly wheel with a hammer and broke some rivets? I might be wrong in my understanding. I am also going to say the fly wheel most likely has no rivets as it is most presumably bolted on to the engine. This is going down hill fast I suggest contacting a knowledgeable mechanic friend to assist you.

[fit1446]

 

I'm having a hard time believing all this.