junehhan Posted August 16, 2016 Report Share Posted August 16, 2016 Hey guys, have any of you guys ever experienced this while stock? I have 900 miles on my 2016 Sport and have noticed that my rpms fluctuate by about 300 rpms when the engine is lugging in overdrive on the highway at 55-60 mph with the cruise control on. You can feel this slight fluctuation and I cannot tell whether it is the engine, torque converter, or tranny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junehhan Posted August 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2016 Update, the actual rpm fluctuations appear to be closer to 100-200 rpms and seems to occur around 1400-1600 rpms in a tall gear. The sensation I feel is a light surging feel. It occurs on the highway only when going up a light incline in 6th gear at between 54-59 mph. It does not appear to be fuel related as I have gone through several tanks now. I also got it to do it around the same rpms up a hill by my house using manual mode to keep it locked in 4th and 5th gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 16, 2016 Report Share Posted August 16, 2016 It could be the torque converter locking/unlocking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junehhan Posted August 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2016 That was my thought, but it would not be normal for the torque converter to be locking and unlocking like that. No vehicle I have ever owned does that. It almost felt like the torque converter was unable to handle the load or the engine was surging in that rpm range. When I am putzing around town, the car spends quite a bit of time on the highway with cruise control on in that rpm and speed range. I am a little bit disturbed but the engine is so darn quiet that I cannot make any exact determination. Even when I turned my climate control off, I still could not hear the engine sounds which might give me a clue. I am mostly curious before I have someone look at it if they have noticed anything like this before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinyin Posted August 17, 2016 Report Share Posted August 17, 2016 It's the powershift transmission. I have the same issue. Driving with cruise control at 65 mph, it frequently jumps from 4th to 5th to 6th gear. Also kills your fuel economy. Is it a safety feature where the vehicle engine brakes to slow you down? I just chalk it up to being a poorly engineered subpar Ford product. I've had numerous vehicles in the past 4 years (Audi, Volvo, Nissan) all with 6 speed automatic transmissions, and none of them had this issue while using cruise control at 65mph. They would all stay in 6th gear and use the low end torque of the engine, rather than upshifting at the slightest incline or decline in the tarmac surface. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junehhan Posted August 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2016 The transmission is actually staying in 6th gear. If I force a downshift with the paddleshfiters and get the engine running at higher rpms, it stops doing this. It is only doing it in an upward incline when running in that rpm range. Once I am driving over 60mph, it is at a high enough rpm in 6th gear that it does not do this. I am not sure what this transmission is called(6F55 maybe?), but the Powershift is that dry clutch based dual clutch transmission exclusively in the Focus here in America. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omar302 Posted August 17, 2016 Report Share Posted August 17, 2016 (edited) What fuel are you using? Regular or Premium? if regular, try premium next time. It is probable the torque converter as akirby stated, locking/unlocking since as you described the engine is lugging. It is a small step to get a little more engine power before downshifting. Try premium fuel first, then if it is still there, show it to your dealer, may an update to the PCM is available that would solve it. Edited August 17, 2016 by omar302 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junehhan Posted August 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2016 This vehicle has seen nothing under 93 octane. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omar302 Posted August 17, 2016 Report Share Posted August 17, 2016 Try to test drive another Edge Sport under the same conditions or just take it to the dealer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 17, 2016 Report Share Posted August 17, 2016 It's the powershift transmission. Is it a safety feature where the vehicle engine brakes to slow you down? Edge Sport uses the 6F55, not the Powershift. That's Focus/Fiesta only. It's not a safety feature - it just helps with speed control. If you're going downhill and touch the brakes it will downshift to maintain speed without you needing to ride the brakes. Tap the accelerator to cancel it or don't hit the brakes to avoid engaging it in the first place. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinyin Posted August 17, 2016 Report Share Posted August 17, 2016 (edited) Edge Sport uses the 6F55, not the Powershift. That's Focus/Fiesta only. It's not a safety feature - it just helps with speed control. If you're going downhill and touch the brakes it will downshift to maintain speed without you needing to ride the brakes. Tap the accelerator to cancel it or don't hit the brakes to avoid engaging it in the first place. I think you misunderstood. What is happening in my vehicle is the ECM engine brakes by downshifting the transmission. I am not touching the brakes physically. Edited August 17, 2016 by pinyin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 17, 2016 Report Share Posted August 17, 2016 If you're using the cruise control it will downshift to keep from going over the set speed. If you're not using cruise control I think it only downshifts if you are touching the brakes while going downhill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 17, 2016 Report Share Posted August 17, 2016 That doesn't sound like enough RPM for a downshift. I still think it's the torque converter locking/unlocking. It may be defective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junehhan Posted August 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2016 Correct, if the transmission was downshifting there would be a much larger jump in rpms. Even a torque converter unlocking would result in at least a 500 rpm jump under those rpm and load conditions. It almost seems seems like something is struggling to stay locked or the engine is boncing around trying to adapt. I cannot verify anything by ear because the engine is so quiet that I cannot hear it unless it is at higher than 2100 or so rpms. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tjm623 Posted August 18, 2016 Report Share Posted August 18, 2016 I have a 3.5L and think I have something along same issue. It happens on one hilly road in particular that's 45 mph. I'll get to about 40 and 4th gear, let off gas and you'd expect it to coast and up shift to pick up speed. It instead stays in 4th and immediately feels like engine braking from the lower gear. I have to use paddle shifter to move it up to 5th and then 6th. It won't shift back down until tach is below 1000, which to me is normal. The annoying part is it not wanting to up shift and the feeling of immediate engine brake when letting off the gas. The car should have some ability to coast without needing brake or gas input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junehhan Posted August 18, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2016 What you are experiencing would be considered to be normal behavior in most adaptive transmissions. It is sensing that you are on a hilly road and is keeping the transmission from upshifting to make sure that you have enough power to tackle any uphill grades and enough engine braking for the downhill sections. My case is that there are very small fluctuations in rpms of about 100-200rpms when driving along a slight uphill grade while the transmission is in a tall gear and hovering around the 1500rpm range. Each upward rpm fluctuation is like a very short blip. I had a chance to do a bit more driving to hone things in, and I wonder if it is the engine trying to adapt to the high load low rpm conditions that it would be experiencing at such engine speeds. Increasing the load by giving it more gas while in that range does not make the fluctuations any worse. If it was a transmission or torque converter based issue, increasing load at such low rpms would make the issue worse in the form of slippage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junehhan Posted August 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2016 Ok. I am now 99% convinced that this is not transmission or torque converter related. Our roads are so bad that I could not hear it, but I had a meeting out of town and took some hilly rural roads to avoid the disaster they call I-75. Each fluctuation in rpm gets accompanied by some noise from under the hood. It only does it going up an incline in one of the overdrive gears when the engine is below 1700 rpms with it most likely to occur between 1400-1600 rpms which would be below 58mph in 6th. I cannot tell what the noise is as our cars have so much sound deadening. For those of you guys for whom this is your first GDI engine, this is the quietest I have ever experienced(my 3rd GTDI engine). What I am hearing has a rumbly or hissy sound to it. None of this exists once the engine is over the 1700 rpm threshold or the engine is not in an overdrive gear. Could this be spark knock? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cds71 Posted August 19, 2016 Report Share Posted August 19, 2016 could it be a mild fluctuations in the turbo pressure....which gives you little mini surges....I get that from time to time in the lower rpm range with my sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junehhan Posted August 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2016 Yeah. I am starting to believe that what I am seeing is something that is not normal that is on the border between being normal and not normal. This means that this will be something that the dealer probably will not be able do much about. I am still taking it in next Thursday as there could be an ECM update or something else. I am starting to think that I may be able to fix this with a call to Livernois and maybe buying a custom transmission only tune that keeps the engine from lugging. Maybe have them only modify the shift points so that the engine never lugs below 1700rpms. If I can document that the only thing I ever did was modify the shift points, that could be much safer than going all out and getting a full blown tune as those can almost guarantee a voided warranty in the event of a powertrain or drivetrain failure. However this would be the first time I have experienced this. My 2.0 never did this and my 3.5 in the Lincoln MKT never did this. Of course the 2.0 is a single turbo only setup. The MKT was pretty darn amazing as that sucker would pull like crazy up the steep mountains in Northern BC, Canada from as low as 1200rpms without a hiccup. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 19, 2016 Report Share Posted August 19, 2016 What about the throttle body? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junehhan Posted August 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2016 What about the throttle body? I have never heard of TB problems manifesting itself within such a narrow rpm range, but who knows. Once I get a scantool, it should allow me to see if timing is being retarded or boost pressure is surging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 19, 2016 Report Share Posted August 19, 2016 If the butterfly was moving slightly that could cause the rpm to fluctuate a little. I don't think I've heard of that type of failure but you never know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junehhan Posted August 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2016 Yeah, all of which is why I am trying to get a scantool. I may have to order it as I originally thought a speed shop like Jegs or Summit would carry them in store. I long for the old days when things were not as complex and engines came in 2 sizes. Small block and big ass block. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junehhan Posted August 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2016 could it be a mild fluctuations in the turbo pressure....which gives you little mini surges....I get that from time to time in the lower rpm range with my sport. Out of curiosity, do you also notice any engine rpm fluctuations or speed blips on the tachometer when you get these mini surges at low rpms? If so, how many rpms do you see in the fluctuation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cds71 Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 yes i do.....and it usually occurs in S mode. Surges seems to be around 100 to 150 rpm.....to me it almost seems like the turbo wants boost just before you add more fuel....like its dancing on the edge between - and + boost pressure. Ive had two 2015 edge sports and they both did it. Im surprised more people have not noticed this.....it doesnt seem to be a big deal, it just seems like the engine wants to go.....and who am I to stand in the way of my Edge wanting to have some fun! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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