Ford vs Audi (Edge/Explorer/F-150 vs Q5/Q7)

[kmarnes]

I'll start by saying I have been on the waiting list for the redesigned 2018 Audi SQ5 for about a year now. I'm coming from the side of the fence were I value performance and luxury. I also live in Canada, as market conditions for car shopping is different than the US. Less room for negotiation, no widespread Costco deals, etc. I have a family with 1 kid, so having a larger 7 seater is an option too and we like to ski, but realistically, a 5 seater SUV is totally workable. I have also owned a wide variety of Japanese, American, and German cars from commuter cars to sports cars, to the idiotic gas guzzling 9MPG Jeep Commander.

 

So a few days ago I got a email from Costco on a deal on Ford with Employee pricing + $1000 Costco discount and was impressed with the deep discounts. Impressed enough to take a very close look and seriously consider a Ford vehicle. Audi doesn't really give out good deals in Canada, especially for new model years.

 

So all prices I list are going to be in Canadian dollars

 

Obviously Audis are more expensive cars, and while I loved the new Q7 with all the amazing tech and fully digital dashboard with integrated navigation maps, a decently-equipped Audi Q7 is $80k + tax. More than I want to spend. So the Explorer is effectively the $55k equivalent. Further more, if you can get it under $55k, you avoid the +3% luxury tax in British Columbia.

 

So the Edge is more like the Q5 competition -- the size that I'm targeting. A top of the line Edge Sport with this discount is $50k (+$4500 tech, +1750 moonroof). The Edge sport is about 6" longer than the Q5 -- the Q5 is more like the size of an Escape, but I like the extra cargo space in the Edge. The 2.7 V6 Eco-boost engine is closer to the Q5 3.0TFSI engine. The SQ5 is faster and more powerful, and more expensive. This is where things break down a bit, as a $50k Edge vs a $60k Q5... close enough in price that the Audi is the obvious choice.

 

I drove the Edge Sport and Explorer Platinum. I unfortunately encountered a deal-breaker for me with both cars, and that was the transmission. The six-speed transmission with twin turbos was slow to shift and react. What was clearly a half-second of lag. Even when I hit the gas from a total stop, it would take a half-second before the car realized I was gunning it. The shifts were also quite clunky, and I could feel the power getting sapped each time it shifted. Sure, most people don't drive like a fiend, and in normal daily driving this wouldn't be an issue. But being keenly aware of how Audi's drive -- they have utterly mastered all-wheel drive and transmission responsiveness. Put a ZF-8 in these Fords, and I think it would have made a big enough difference for me to consider pulling the trigger.

 

Overall, I vastly preferred the Explorer over the Edge, especially considering the minor price differences $50k vs $55k. The Explorer looks nicer inside and out, feels better to drive, and the tron-like lighting is a real nice touch. A decked out Edge is definitely not worth $50k, even with the deep discount.

 

Ironically, I also spotted the F150 and couldn't help but notice that they had 4 doors and incredibly spacious back seats and very similar fit and finish to the Explorer. So I checked it out without driving one. I was amazed at how nice it was inside. In fact, the F150 had more space in the rear seats than sitting in the middle row in an Explorer or the back seats in the Edge, or the Audi equivalents. Could an F150 be the only car we truly need? Dump runs, ski trips, Ikea trips, commuting. I actually could seriously warm up to having a dedicated 5 seater with a completely separate truck bed for storage of skis or garbage. Plus the rear seats fold up to the back giving you a cavernous trunk space - 2 seater with truck bed too. But again, it comes down to transmission for me. If any of you are considering an Explorer or Edge, you definitely should check out the F150. So if I were to rank which cars I would buy... this is how it would fall.

 

2018 Audi SQ5 ($70k) -- insane performance, a proper Jekyll and Hyde CUV. 5 seater, same size as an Escape. And also incredible fuel economy. Even though Audi's must use premium gas, getting around 8L/100km is literally twice as good as these Fords for economy. I could shave off $10k and get the 3.0TFSI engine instead, but you lose some of the cool stuff. Also this is the same price range as the upcoming Mercedes GLC43, which are pretty equivalent cars, just some different aesthetics.

 

2017 Ford Explorer Platinum ($55k) -- 7 seats with all the bells & whistles and better cargo capacity, attractive looks inside and out. And could option it out to dodge the 3% luxury tax at the $55k threshhold. But the finance rates on the Explorer are 3.9% which is on the high side.

 

2017 Ford F-150 Platinum ($58k) -- super close to Explorer... definitely some tradeoffs, but I actually think it could work as a very versatile and practical car. Can finance for 2.9%.

 

2017 Audi Q7 ($80k) -- Beautiful car inside and out with beautiful technology, but at a painful price. There is an SQ7 coming out that would be more to my liking but it would be an insane $100k

 

2016 Ford Edge ($50k) -- I don't actually think I would ever buy this car. The Explorer just has so much more value and it also rode better with a higher seating position. In all, I think the Edge suits lower trim ranges and doesn't fit in the luxury/performance space at all. However, I could finance an Edge over 4 years and pay 0% interest. That's significant additional savings right there. Ironically the Ford Edge is closely matched to the new Jaguar F-Pace for size. The F-Pace was designed to be precisely the size between a Q5/Q7, X3/X5, or the Edge. But the F-Pace is very expensive. $80k for the S.

 

So I definitely had fun. I'm probably not buying a new car until next year around this time, but I will keep my eye on Ford. Things could grow on me. Fords also have some really nice features that Audi's don't such as superior interior cubby space, lots of connectivity with numerous USB and literally a 3-prong plug in the back, for those long road trips to recharge your Gameboy or laptop, etc.

 

 

 

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

Where did you get the Audi Q5 numbers from? Have they been officially released yet?

[kmarnes]

No they have not been released yet, but the Q5/SQ5 is the SUV version of the A4/S4 -- same engines, higher weight, better cooling, higher ECU tunings.... so the numbers are speculated.

 

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/668425-B9-S4-Announced

 

In the NEDC cycle, the S4 Sedan consumes less than 7.4 liters of fuel per 100 kilometers with 170 grams CO2 per kilometer (31.8 US mpg [273.6 g/mi]).

But now that I look at it closer, those numbers aren't the ones used in North America. NEDC is considered unrealistically optimistic, even in Europe where it's used. Also, I don't know how to convert it to our standards. The A4 which is a 4-banger with 252hp gets 8.8L/100km in Canada... so I guess maybe 12L/100km for the performance V6, which is closer to the 15-16L/100km for the Ford V6 engines. So I stand corrected on that. And then there is the fact that Fords can get away with using regular gas while Audis require premium... it likely levels the playing field to an insignificant difference.

 

[rwf78155]

No they have not been released yet, but the Q5/SQ5 is the SUV version of the A4/S4 -- same engines, higher weight, better cooling, higher ECU tunings.... so the numbers are speculated.

 

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/668425-B9-S4-Announced

 

In the NEDC cycle, the S4 Sedan consumes less than 7.4 liters of fuel per 100 kilometers with 170 grams CO2 per kilometer (31.8 US mpg [273.6 g/mi]).

 

But now that I look at it closer, those numbers aren't the ones used in North America. NEDC is considered unrealistically optimistic, even in Europe where it's used. Also, I don't know how to convert it to our standards. The A4 which is a 4-banger with 252hp gets 8.8L/100km in Canada... so I guess maybe 12L/100km for the performance V6, which is closer to the 15-16L/100km for the Ford V6 engines. So I stand corrected on that. And then there is the fact that Fords can get away with using regular gas while Audis require premium... it likely levels the playing field to an insignificant difference.

 

Get what makes you happy. I have an Edge Sport and I love it. My friend has an Audi SUV...that's beautiful and very classy....on the days it's not in the dealer service bay

[Waldo]

Sounds like you need to go check out a Lincoln MKX. Same size as the Edge, more luxury features, still in your price range.

[kmarnes]

I can't stand the aesthetics of any of the Lincolns -- inside or out. And they are priced in the same range as Audi's. Also Audi's were 3rd best brand for reliability last year. I am still considering a Platinum Explorer... it's a very decent value.

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

Style is the one intangible that can be pretty tricky to get over ... When I was looking to buy my Edge, I really really did not like the big-a** chrome grille, the huge headlamps or the clear tail lamps. But for me, utility won precedence, and it has been a remarkable machine in most respects. I was able to correct the taillight "issue" with units from DTBL, and have learned to "live with" the front end counterparts Most of the time, unless you are not using your vehicle as a daily daily driver, utility will win over style, IMHO.

[kmarnes]

I wasn't against the looks of the Edge. I just failed to see the value of it compared to an Explorer. The Flex on the other hand....

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

LOL. Not being against is not quite the same as loving it, tho! I have seen mods done to the Flex that make it look quite good actually. Now if you compare it to a sports car ...

[kmarnes]

So a couple things have happened. First, a month later, Ford Employee pricing is still here (and will be around for another month). Two... the finance rates fell to a much more reasonable 1.9% over 4 years or 2.9% over 5 years (in Canada)... where finance rates are higher than the US. Three... I ran the numbers on the actual Audi Q7 I wanted and after fees & taxes & negotiation, it was $90k CDN. I mean sure, I could buy it but it is a ridiculous amount of money. And it's hard to justify with family, retirement, etc to balance. The Ford Explorer is under $60k CDN after fees and taxes and is fully loaded for the price.

 

While I first focused on the Platinum trim, it came in just over the $57k luxury tax limit in BC... which means +3% tax. (+1% at 55k, +2% at 56k) But if I get an utterly loaded Sport, it's under that limit coming around $53k before taxes.

 

I liked the chrome accents on the Platinum exterior, but disliked the look of the leather even though it's fancier, and couldn't get past the wood trim inlays and on the steering wheel.

 

I disliked the black accents on the Sport exterior, but loved the more modern interior with brushed aluminum inlays and accent stitching in red. Also it's cheaper but doesn't come with all the fanciest options of the Platinum (lane assist, better stereo which isn't an option in Canada, park assist, massage seats, and fully digital dashboard). I just wish Ford would make these more flexible, but I get that's how you get pricing down. In the end, the Platinum costs about $3k more than the Sport and the trade-offs aren't super significant. For me the interior aesthetics was the most important factor combined with the fact that I could completely avoid paying any luxury tax -- as that would have added another $2k to the bill and made the effective difference $5k instead of $3k.

 

Anyways, given the lower interest rates offered now, I was able to get best of all worlds (Employee Pricing, Costco rebate, and low interest rates) and pulled the trigger on a fully loaded Sport in Smoked Quartz. I didn't like that color on the webpage -- looks like a dark blue, but in real life it's actually a super dark metallic gray and I loved it. It almost looks black, but looks more expensive and will hide dirt better than a pure black color. Also was lucky enough to secure one in holding, so it's brand new and I'll get it in two days. Only options it had that I didn't care about were the all weather mats and the roof rack cross bars. only adding $375 to the price, compared to what I would have ordered.

Edited August 22, 2016 by kmarnes

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

Welcome to Edge ownership, hope it proves to be a perfect choice!

 

EDIT: EXPLORER ownership (LOL Burrcold!). Regardless, same sentiments apply

Edited August 21, 2016 by WWWPerfA_ZN0W

[Burrcold]

He got an Explorer not an Edge lol

[kmarnes]

Yeah, thanks! Well I started on this forum because I wasn't sure if I wanted an Edge or an Explorer, but the Explorer was what I ended up going with.

[zillafreak]

Just buy a Superduty crew cab and be happy. Pretty sure the 2016 models will be very cheap with the new 2017 model coming out.

They have the room and power. Plus a loaded on has many nice interior features.

[kmarnes]

I was really impressed with the trucks, but for the one or two times per year I might actually use the truck bed, it didn't trump my need for more cavernous interior and luggage space. Plus my wife's parents have a pickup truck that we can borrow whenever we need to make a dump run.

[zillafreak]

Luggage space. umm the truck will have way more luggage space than any SUV. Put a cover on the bed and done.

Cavernous Interior, again, truck wins here too.

 

Having owned a 2002 F250, 2013 Honda Pilot and a 2010 Ford Edge, the F250 interior had way more room in it. I had a hard bed cover and this gave me massive storage. We drove it from Ohio to Florida and was able to pretty much take what ever we wanted. Enough clothes for 3 people (2 adults and a kid) for 10 days, cooler, 12x12 pop up canopy, beach stuff, etc. We also had a car seat in the truck that was big. Same car seat barely fit in the pilot and a Toyota Venza.

 

Being a taller guy, the truck offers way more head room and leg room for me than any other SUV I have been in (expect a true full size SUV aka excursion or suburban)

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

Definitely good reasons to own a truck, zillafreak!

 

EDIT: My only reasons would be so I could install a lift kit and 40" tires on it LOL

Edited August 22, 2016 by WWWPerfA_ZN0W

[kmarnes]

We would like to have a vehicle that can carry more than 5 people legally.

 

I do agree that the interior space of the supercrew truck was exquisite and super roomy for everyone, impressively spacious in the 2nd row. If I went for the truck, I would have indeed got a locking cover. I found the F-150 to be an attractive truck, but the F-250 and up I do not like the exterior look, and a bit overkill for something I would not actually use as a truck. Also some questionable use of wood trim. Even though I'm getting old in my early 40s, I equate wood grain to old school. I'm from a generation of technology. I only want to see brushed aluminum steel, carbon, and leather inside my car. The only wood that would be acceptable is black wood in a Mercedes or grey oak in an Audi... basically neutral colors. The giant side-bar of wood inside each door is offensive to me. Even though the Explorer platinum has subtle amounts of wood that you can barely see when you are actually driving the car, it bugged me so much, I opted for the Sport model, sacrificing a few tech toys in order to do it. That's me.

 

Finally a truck is going to be less sporty handling than a SUV, even though the Explorer Sport isn't exactly sporty in the curves. And one thing I love about SUVs is sitting in the back while putting on or taking off skis and having some protection from snow by the rear door

 

I'm a programmer. I don't get blisters. I don't need a truck. But I like the truck a lot. But I prefer the Explorer based on my family's needs.

[zillafreak]

Ford Raptor for handling.

[zillafreak]

Definitely good reasons to own a truck, zillafreak!

 

EDIT: My only reasons would be so I could install a lift kit and 40" tires on it LOL

I ran 35s on my truck without any lift and I still got 16mpg, diesel ftw.

[kmarnes]

So picked it up yesterday, loving it! Pics here:

 

http://www.explorerforum.com/xenforo/index.php?threads/2017-explorer-sport-picked-up.450781/

 

EDIT: Purely coincidental how that link shortened...

Edited August 23, 2016 by kmarnes

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

Now all you need is a tune LOL!

[kmarnes]

Not going to tune it. It's got enough power. Also I got the talk from the Ford Dealer -- tuning invalidates warranty. I've never done it before, so don't really feel like playing with fire. Also got a 10 year bumper to bumper warranty

[akirby]

Not going to tune it. It's got enough power. Also I got the talk from the Ford Dealer -- tuning invalidates warranty. I've never done it before, so don't really feel like playing with fire. Also got a 10 year bumper to bumper warranty

 

Not true actually - nothing "invalidates" the warranty. But they can deny a warranty claim if the damage resulted from your modification.

[junehhan]

Yeah, thanks! Well I started on this forum because I wasn't sure if I wanted an Edge or an Explorer, but the Explorer was what I ended up going with.

Congrats! The Explorer Sport is a great choice. I did consider an Explorer Sport, but the Edge Sport was at the upper end of my budget. They are impressive with the 3.5 litre turbo. It is not much of a top end engine, but it has insane torque early through the mid range. I had that motor in my Lincoln MKT and it was a beast driving through Northern BC and the YT.