Which Motor Oil Is Better?

[yevhen]

Hello there,

 

The manufacturer and dealer recommend SAE 5W-20 Motor Oil, but I have been looking through the internet and found the following statement:

 

"You get about 1% better fuel economy, but you get 30% shorter engine life! The above statement is based on real life experience and is comparison to SAE 5W-30 Motor Oil."

 

Found it here - http://www.synlube.com/sae5w-20.htm

 

I am planning to change the motor oil and I was wondering if anyone has any experience with motor oil other than SAE 5W-20 Motor Oil?

[jeffreybehr]

SEARCH, yehven, Search, You'll find among other things a FoMoCo engineer pleading with everyone to use 5W20 oil year-round.

 

I use RedLine synthetic and a Mobil 1 filter.

 

And that postist's 'real (sic) life experience'? Unless he/she works in a test lab and can do contolled testing on a high number of engines (the way FoMoCo and all the other manufacturers do), one person can't possibly have enough experience to make such conclusions reliably.

[GerRod]

As Jeff alluded to, I'd suggest going with the recommended 5W-20 as well. It's proven that the lighter 20 weight flows better and get into the tighter clearance parts better during the critical startup and warmup period. In other words, engine wear is reduced.

 

As far as brands, I use to use Mobil 1 but recently started using Royal Purple in my supercharged F150. I'll probably go with Royal Purple in the Edge when it's time to change the oil in it.

[solas989]

I am going to "third" the above statements.

 

w20 flows much better than w30 and under startup is where the most wear occurs - you need the most lubrication (flow=lubrication).

 

I use Amsoil Synthetic 5w20 (Class IV petrol stock) with Mobil1 filter. I use the EP 7500 Miles stuff. I have also heard good things about Royal Purple - but I have no personal experience in it.

 

I used to use Mobil1 but they dropped their class from IV to III without dropping their price.

 

Solas

[Grey]

Grey repeats himself ----

 

"Did you know that our engines are designed to operate at about 212 degrees? The oil specification required by Ford has a "viscosity" (really a centiStroke) value of 10 at that temperature. Most oils are designed to that level at 212 degrees (fairly easy to do.) If you kept your engine running 24/7 most oils would be satisfactory.

 

Did you know that 90% of engine wear happens at start-up? Ambient temperature sets the viscosity of the oil at start-up - thinner is better. A 0-5 weight oil has a flow rating of 40-60 cSt at 75 degrees. The flow ratings for a 10 weight is 100 cS, and for a 30 weight, 250 cSt at 75 degrees.

 

Where would you need the protection of the 20+ weight? When your engine operating temperature is 302 degrees (racing or extreme towing).

 

Why don't you want multi-grade 30-40 weight oils for normal operation? The VI (viscosity improvers) for multi-weight oils will affect the flow of oil at start-up and at normal operating temperatures. It is the flow of oil, not the oil pressure, that protects wear parts of an engine. It is also the oil flow that assists in the cooling of the engine. Inhibit oil flow and increase temperature, as well as start-up wear effects.

 

If thinner is better at start-up, why not specify a 0-20 weight oil? The additive package required to produce a 0-20 weight oil is quite extensive and would be more sensitive to break down over time and mileage. The oil is still oil, it's the additives that lose their ability to provide the correct viscosity at operating temperature, prevent sludge, reduce ash, varnish carbon build-up, etc.

 

Ford engineers have worked through the specifications required for their engine oils and have designed the total system to be compatable with this specification and the prescribed oil change intervals. But since everyone is an expert of sorts, there may be some that disagree."

[solas989]

I agree with you Grey - but I see no harm in adding extra protection (ie full synthetic vs Ford Semi Synthetic) as long as it meets Ford specs (which Amsoil does).

 

I know Amsoil is good (per lab results) and will continue to use it for my use. I in no set of means meant Fords oil is bad (which I forget who actually makes Fords oil). I just think going above and beyond protection is better in my case (that and I am anal).

 

When I get out of warranty in 2 years (as it seems), I will be moving oil changes to 15000 miles with oil filter changes in between. I just have to stay within the 7500 miles for Fords warranty.

 

Solas

[yevhen]

Thanks everybody for the comments and replies,

 

As I understood, there is no major difference between 5W20 and 5W30 motor oil. I am planning to use mobil1 5W30 and then will let you know how it went.

[Grey]

Several companies refine and produce oil for Motorcraft. The specification that the oil must meet is the key - not the supplier. You can use a full synthetic as long as it meets the Ford specs.

 

Motorcraft oils are formulated to meet the specification every batch - every test. Some oil suppliers will continue to test a marginal formulation untill they get a (lucky) pass - even though 9 prior attempts with the same formulation failed. All they need is one documented pass to say they met the spec.

 

As long as you are going to the expense of using a full synthetic, why not use 0w20. That will avoid even more wear at start-up.

 

 

Don't let anyone tell you that you need up to a 30 weight oil unless you are constantly towing or racing your vehicle (and operating temps will be up to 300+ degrees). You will not protect the engine with a heavy weight oil, just cause more wear at start-up.

[solas989]

I would stick with a 5w20 - Not only is it better than 5w30 in most applications, but Ford says to use it. You will be causing earlier wear than needed.

 

The reason I dont drop down to 0w20 is because there could be a small slight change of Ford denying warranty claims. I dont want to risk it. Yes it would be better - but I dont want a chance to be denied a warranty claim because they said to use 5w20 and I used 0w20. Small risk, but avoidable.

 

Once my warranty is up - that is definitely an option - dropping to 0w20. However, I have heard some older engines (2004's imports with many miles) do not like 0w20 and caused leaks at the seals etc. Now that should be taken with grain of salt as I did not personally see/experience it.

 

Solas

[fordaholic]

I just got an email back from Amsoil today about the oil they would recommend I use in our Edge. The tech that emailed me back recommended (AMS) 0w-20 and their EAO34 filter and a change interval of 25,000 miles or one year. I am not sure I would be comfortable going that long without at least a filter change or two.

 

Steve

[solas989]

I just got an email back from Amsoil today about the oil they would recommend I use in our Edge. The tech that emailed me back recommended (AMS) 0w-20 and their EAO34 filter and a change interval of 25,000 miles or one year. I am not sure I would be comfortable going that long without at least a filter change or two.

 

Steve

I would not have a problem doing that - but I would change the filter more than once in that interval. I have seen the lab reports from Amsoil that have 20K up 30K miles on it and it is still not broken down - per blackstone labs.

 

Now, I would NOT do that while under warranty (but that is me) - it would be easy for ford to deny a claim - especially on the 0w20 aspect (I would think). If it was not for the warranty , I would be considering 15K to 20K mile changes with 3-4 filter changes in that time (I would have to research how long the filters last). That is what I planned on doing with my Mazda - 15K miles with 3 filter changes. That was until we got the Edge and now there are no miles being put on it.

 

I have not used Amsoil oil filters - have heard pretty good things from them. I still use Mobil1 filters and have great experiences with them.

 

Just my thoughts

 

Solas

[fordaholic]

I would not have a problem doing that - but I would change the filter more than once in that interval. I have seen the lab reports from Amsoil that have 20K up 30K miles on it and it is still not broken down - per blackstone labs.

 

Now, I would NOT do that while under warranty (but that is me) - it would be easy for ford to deny a claim - especially on the 0w20 aspect (I would think). If it was not for the warranty , I would be considering 15K to 20K mile changes with 3-4 filter changes in that time (I would have to research how long the filters last). That is what I planned on doing with my Mazda - 15K miles with 3 filter changes. That was until we got the Edge and now there are no miles being put on it.

 

I have not used Amsoil oil filters - have heard pretty good things from them. I still use Mobil1 filters and have great experiences with them.

 

Just my thoughts

 

Solas

A good friend of mine is one of the service writers at the dealer we bought our Edge at. I had to be in there today to take care of a couple of things and I talked to him about using the Amsoil. He said what you said about not using anything but the Motorcraft 5w-20 at least until the warranty is up. I guess I have some time to decide what I am going to do with it then. The dealership services all of the sherriff departments patrol cars and he said that they use Amsoil in them and it did some weird stuff to the engines in those cars. Didn't have time to pick his brain anymore because he was getting busy.

 

Steve

[Grey]

It is interesting that Amsoil says their 5w20 oil meets the Ford spec (M2C930A) and that you can use any of their oils and maintain your Ford warranty. But, they will not not say that their 5w30 (for example) meets the Ford spec. They also claim that you can go to extended oil change intervals (25,000 miles or more) and maintain your Ford warranty.

 

Ford doesn't say you must use Motorcraft 5w20 - just use oil that meets the Ford specification and change oil according to the maintenance schedule. I guess I'd want to see an oil suppliers warranty on my engine before I decide to give up the Ford warranty.

[sengland]

Motor Oil is Motor Oil! That being said, Additives are what makes the difference, and there are a plethora of differences!

 

Ford Motor Company does NOT make oil. They go out for bids using their specs. Low Bidder wins, and produces Motorcraft Motor Oil.

 

Currently Valvoline has the contract.

 

As far as 5W-20W if Ford thought the engine they made needed something else they would state that. However as long as what you use meets or exceeds their specs then go for it.

 

Motor Oil Brands cause as many fights as Politics, Religion, and Nascar. I use what Ford says to use and I have it changed at a Ford dealership. Why? Because if there is ever an issue I have proof of intervals and oil use. Just my own little personal piece of mind I guess. Heck Fire for 36.99 you get the oil changed and the overall inspection. I don't want to waller around on the Garage Floor and clean up the mess then dispose of the oil properly for 37 bucks.

 

I have owned many Fords for many many years now. I have modified several and gained ZIP except loss of MY MONEY. You aren't supposed to drive over 70/75 mph in most states anyway.

 

Claims about this and that are simply claims. They are sales people trying to sell YOU what They make and try to justify their claim anyway they can. I guess I am just getting old! My Edge is Bone Stock! It has 12,000 miles on it, since October of 2007. I just made a trip to Cape Girardeau MO and over into IL and got 23.4 Overall mileage on this tank of Gas. Many Backroads through Cape and into Il over to Buncombe IL. I am very well pleased with my mileage and my Edge.

 

The vehicle you own is yours and you can do whatever you wish with it. As for me and my Edge we are sticking with Ford Products.

 

Just my Opinion, I am certain you all have yours and I respect that!

[solas989]

I have a problem with my local ford dealers - they are all a bunch of idiots.

 

I have 4 dealers locally. 1 refuses to acknowledge the Limited Exists - never did trust them. 1 over filled my dads windstar (by a qt it seems) and caused engine damage. 1 did a tire rotation on my contour and left a lug nut off the rear passenger. These were all different dealers. I dont trust Ford Service Depts.

 

You gotta use what Ford specs state - anything else they can deny you warranty work on the engine.

 

I also agree that Oil is like religion and politics - it brings the worst out in all.

 

EVEN if Amsoil said that you can go 25K (which that sounds like them), I would NEVER attempt that while in warranty because you go to Ford, not Amsoil if there is an issue.

 

I still put Amsoil in - have not noticed anything odd.

 

fordaholic - can you get more details by chance? I know the Police engines are suped up and heavy duty - nothing like ours. But details would be great.

 

Solas

[Gtessex]

I own a 2001 Mustang that calls for 5W20 oil. For the past couple of years I've used Pennzoil Platinum Full Synthetic 5w20 oil. Cheaper than Mobil 1 and can be found at Walmart.

[IowaEdge]

Amsoil has been to court with numerous manufacturers who have tried to deny warranty service due to Amsoil. To my knowledge, Amsoil has won every one of them.

 

So, when they tell me they're oil won't void my Ford Warranty, then I beleive them. They have said that what ford will do is test the oil with oil analysis. As long as it holds up (which Amsoil and independent tests have confirmed they do for 25-30K miles) then it is ILLEGAL for Ford to deny you warranty service.

 

I have not used amsoil yet, but am considering it. Improved fuel economy, easier and less harmful startups are a couple of the reasons.

 

Here is the basis of AMOIL's Warranty claims:

 

 

Warranties and the Magnuson-Moss Act

If you are interested in using AMSOIL motor oil, but concerned that using a synthetic oil or extending your oil drain interval will void his warranty, you have no need for concern. Congress in 1975 enacted the federal Magnuson-Moss Act to regulate written consumer product warranties. An examination of the law reveals warranties remain intact when AMSOIL Synthetic Lubricants are used.

 

The law was meant to give consumers detailed information about warranty coverage before they buy.

 

Congress charged the Federal Trade Commission with creation of the specifics of the law.

 

The FTC set down three rules under the Act: the Disclosure Rule, the Pre-Sale Availability Rule and the Dispute Resolution Rule.

 

Those rules require warrantors to title their written warranty as either full or limited, provide a single, clear and easy-to-read document that spells out certain information about coverage and ensure that warranties are available where the products are sold so that consumers can read them before buying.

 

In passing the Act, Congress meant to give consumers access to warranty information, let consumers comparison shop for warranties, encourage warranty competition and promote timely and complete performance of warranty obligations.

 

While the Magnuson-Moss Act does not require manufacturers to provide a written warranty, it provides specific rules when one is provided. Among those provisions, FTC regulations state: © No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumers using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name; except that the prohibition of this subsection may be waived by the Commission if (1) the warrantor satisfies the Commission that the warranted product will function properly only if the article or service so identified is used in connection with the warranted product, and (2) the Commission finds that such a waiver is in the public interest. (15 U.S.C.2302©)

 

That means your warranty stands when you use AMSOIL Synthetic Lubricants.

 

Vehicle manufacturers recommend lubricants according to their viscosity grade and service classification. Any oil, whether its conventional petroleum motor oil or synthetic, meeting the correct viscosity grade, 5W-30 for example, and the current API and ILSAC North American service classifications may be used without affecting warranty coverage. AMSOIL motor oils are recommended for use in applications requiring these specifications.

 

Furthermore, the practice of extending oil drain intervals does not void warranties. Original equipment manufacturers pay or deny warranty claims based on the findings of failure analysis. To affect the vehicle warranty, the lubricant must be directly responsible for the failure. If the oil didn't cause the problem the warranty cannot be voided, regardless of brand or length of time in use.

 

Synthetic motor oil was introduced to the automotive public in 1972 by AMSOIL, INC., with the world's first API rated synthetic motor oil specially formulated for long service and superior performance and protection to that of conventional oils.

 

Nearly 30 years ago, AMSOIL synthetics represented a vision of the future and technology ahead of their time. Since then, every major engine oil manufacturer has introduced synthetic oils of their own. To be sure, many original equipment manufacturers would like you to believe you can only use their products. However, it s a violation of the consumer protections set forth in the Magnuson-Moss Act, unless they re willing to provide you those products free of charge.

 

AMSOIL offers a warranty that covers the cost of repair or replacement of a proven mechanically sound engine damaged as a result of using AMSOIL synthetic motor oil. However, it has never happened. Thirty years of experience proves AMSOIL can be installed in any vehicle with complete confidence.

 

AMSOIL further backs its products with action when a Dealer or customer reports being told their warranty is voided if they use synthetics.

 

If you have heard from any member of a business that the use of AMSOIL Motor Oil or the practice of extending drain intervals will void warranties, send AMSOIL all the details including the name of the business, business owner or manager and the individual making the claims, in a signed and dated letter. Send the letter to the Technical Services Department at corporate headquarters and an AMSOIL representative will send them a letter explaining the facts.

 

Access to the complete Magnuson-Moss Act is available on the Internet by key words Magnuson-Moss Act or Federal Trade Commission.

Edited April 4, 2008 by IowaEdge

[solas989]

I, personally, would not hesitate for a second to use Amsoil - it is the oil of choice for my vehicles and several others in my family.

 

Every now and then (when going for long periods of time), send sample kit for analysis. Everytime (total of 6 in my family), all results stated the Amsoil oil did not break down. These samples were from Mazda, Nissan, Toyota and Hyundai (notice a foreign trend) engines with 15K to 25K miles with filter changes in between. Once we get out of warranty, I am curious on the Edge - my first American car test.

 

There is a problem with Amsoil - it is not readily available (not at Walmart etc) and is not cheap when compared to other synthetics.

 

Just my few cents

 

Solas

[Grey]

You don't have to look far to find a situation where a vehicle owner thought not following the manufacturers recommendations on oil change intervals or not using properly spec'd products was "OK" and they were subsequently denied warranty coverage by the vehicle manufacturer.

 

Engine damage due to sludge is not warrantable.

 

Engine damage due to overheating because the wrong lubricants were used is not warrantable. (Oil is a temperature regulator also.)

 

Engine damage due to "lack of lubrication" is not warrantable. (Wrong weight of oil used, oil run low, etc.)

 

Don't even think that a hand full of receipts, or a copy of Magnuson-Moss or a copy of somebody's post on a forum will change their minds.

 

Proper lubrication and maintenance of the engine is the owner's responsibility. It is not the manufacturer's responsibility if somebody uses incorrect products or improper oil change intervals. If "Corner Luber" uses 30w oil (because it's cheaper), wipes off the filter rather than change it, puts in 4 quarts instead of 5-6 quarts, improperly installs a drain plug or filter, etc. then it's between you and them.

 

If you trust that other products will provide proper lubrication at extended maintenace intervals, then I hope you never have a maintenance related problem.

[bbf2530]

Hi all. :D For what it's worth, I tend to agree with what Grey states above.

 

While my vehicles are under Warranty, I follow the Manufacturers Recommended Maintenance Schedule (oil changes every 7,500 miles/6 months). Nowadays with Ford and Mercury Powertrain coverage, that is 5 years/60,000 miles. Lincoln is 6 years/70,000.

 

As far as I am concerned, the little money saved is not worth the possible Warranty ramifications. While a catastrophic engine failure due to an oil related problem is minuscule, if it does happen, it will be me against Fords lawyers. Neither Amsoil nor any other oil company will be sending their lawyers to help me plead my case, no matter what their advertising may say.

 

Nothing beats properly performed maintenance and receipts if a major Warranty problem should ever occur.

 

Once my vehicles are out of Warranty, then it is up to me.

 

Until then, as Grey said, all the copies of the Magnuson-Moss act and literature from an oil company website will not be worth a dime. You will still wind up in front of an arbitrator or a judge pleading your case. Why give an Auto Manufacturer the ammunition they need to deny your claim. Just perform the Recommended Maintenance, keep your receipts and you are as good as gold.

 

Again, just my opinion. I am more the play it safe type.

 

Whatever anyone wishes to do with their car is their own business, and I certainly respect their right to ignore every word I or anyone else says. :yup:

 

Good luck. :beerchug:

Edited April 4, 2008 by bbf2530

[solas989]

I agree with FOLLOWING MANUFACTURER OIL INTERVALS - period, the end. I am doing that - every 7500 miles - that is why I use the 7500 mile oil from Amsoil - fits great!!! Once out of warranty, baam, 15K to 20K intervals. But why add to manufacturers defense when you dont have to? Of course, plan to change the filter once within the 7500 miles.

 

Amsoil meets the required specs. Ford can not deny me a warranty claim when I used the proper oil in the proper intervals. Receipts will ASSIST in proving you did oil changes to get the process started. It does NOT prove you did them though. When Ford dismantles the engine to find it clean is when they will see they will have to warranty your claim. There is a process that must be gone through if Ford is bucking at the warranty work - at least there is for GM and Chrysler. The receipts are part of that process if you change your own oil.

 

I would NEVER go more than 7500 miles while in warranty - not worth ANY warranty risk. Especially since I am starting to dislike the vehicle - we have to baby it. Further, I will NEVER trust a Ford Service Dept to change my oil - bunch of MORONS.

 

Just my thoughts and experience.

 

 

Solas

[edgedout]

I think people should remember the months also. The owners manual says 6 mo or 7500 miles. I put

only 4000 or so miles in 6 months. Some might put alot less than that. I am old enough to remember

2000 mile oil changes. Seemed like you changed oil every time you turned around.

[solas989]

I think people should remember the months also. The owners manual says 6 mo or 7500 miles. I put

only 4000 or so miles in 6 months. Some might put alot less than that. I am old enough to remember

2000 mile oil changes. Seemed like you changed oil every time you turned around.

 

 

Yes, thank you - I put 7500 miles on in 3 month easily! I usually forget the Months factor because of this.

 

 

Solas

[fastswinger]

Just recently purchased an 08 edge SEL AWD in Feb. Getting about 19.6mpg with about 1300 miles driven so far.

 

Just a question to all the edge owners: did everyone wait 7500 miles to change their oil? A lot of people tell me I should drop the oil at 3000 or less just because its new. Going by ther service manual, I was going to wait the 7500 miles (or six months for that matter). Maybe I'll add a little prolong to it.

 

Thanks,

 

db

[bbf2530]

Just recently purchased an 08 edge SEL AWD in Feb. Getting about 19.6mpg with about 1300 miles driven so far.

 

Just a question to all the edge owners: did everyone wait 7500 miles to change their oil? A lot of people tell me I should drop the oil at 3000 or less just because its new. Going by ther service manual, I was going to wait the 7500 miles (or six months for that matter). Maybe I'll add a little prolong to it.

 

Thanks,

 

db

 

Hi db. :D You will receive all types of answers to your question. Some feel that the "original Factory" oil should be changed by 1,000 miles to remove any metal shavings, castings, etc, left over from the manufacturing process. Others wait longer but still change early, around 3,000 miles or so. Some, like me, follow Fords recommendation and just do it sometime shortly before 7,500 miles (or in my case usually six months, since I do not put on a lot of miles).

 

I will not force my opinion on you. Perform your first oil change somewhere between 1,000 and 7,500 miles (or 6 months, whichever comes first :shades: ), at whatever point you feel most comfortable with.

 

What I will recommend you not do, is put Prolong or any other additive into your oil. If you read your Owners Manual, it will specifically tell you not to use oil additives. Save your money, and your engine. They are not needed, can be harmful, and are just a drain on your wallet.

 

Good luck. :beerchug:

Edited April 7, 2008 by bbf2530