Rear tire toe

[rgigowski]

I was following my wife driving the Edge and noticed the rear tires are toed out, sort of like what you see on VW bugs where the tires are squared down slightly.

 

Obviously, tread wear on the inside of the tire is compromised. What causes this and what is the fix?

 

Thanks

 

Somehow this posted twice, sorry.

Edited June 1, 2016 by rgigowski

[akirby]

Toe is whether the tires are pointed out or in horizontally. I think you're referring to camber - whether the top of the tire is tilted out or in vertically.

 

Waldo should be able to comment on the factory standard Camber setting.

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

Alignment Specifications
Item LH RH Total/Split

Front
Caster 4.4° ± 0.75° 4.4° ± 0.75° 0° ± 0.75°
Camber -0.30° ± -0.75° -0.30° ± -0.75° 0° ± 0.75°
Toe — — 0.10° ± 0.20°

Rear
Camber -0.40° ± 0.75° -0.40° ± 0.75° 0° ± 0.75°
Toe +0.05° ± -0.20° +0.05° ± -0.20° 0.10° ± 0.20°
Thrust — — 0° ± 0.30°
angle

[enigma-2]

Are the Edge's and MKX's cross-castered vehicles? (Thinking they are from the above specs). If they are, that would explain why several were reporting their Edge's drifting to the right when properly aligned.

 

I think Ford does cross-caster for safety (causing a car to drift right if the driver is unresponsive, the car goes to the edge of the road rather the into oncoming traffic.)

[Waldo]

No, Ford designs for no cross-caster. They use the aligning torque of the tires to control the "right drift".

 

To the OP - assuming you're talking about camber, not toe, the reason there is camber when the vehicle is going straight is because when the vehicle rolls in the corner, you want the tire to stay straight relative to the road in order to provide the most grip. Finding the balance between grip in the corners and inside tire wear is why engineers are always employed!

[macbwt]

Are the Edge's and MKX's cross-castered vehicles? (Thinking they are from the above specs). If they are, that would explain why several were reporting their Edge's drifting to the right when properly aligned.

 

I think Ford does cross-caster for safety (causing a car to drift right if the driver is unresponsive, the car goes to the edge of the road rather the into oncoming traffic.)

That is also where all the rumble strips are located.

[macbwt]

Just how many miles are on those shock in the rear . Worn rear shocks will also cause inner rib wear on the Edge rear tires.

[rgigowski]

Just how many miles are on those shock in the rear . Worn rear shocks will also cause inner rib wear on the Edge rear tires.

 

Sorry guys, I got pulled in a different direction after I posted this and have only now been able to get back on this.

 

I have 120k on the car, give or take.

 

And yes, I meant camber and have no idea why I said toe other than things were crazy at that time.

 

Are the shocks gas charged? Not sure why they would have the car sag like a VW. Are the springs shot?

[macbwt]

Yep need new shocks. I always change mine by 100k if not sooner. I inspect them and if leaking any small amount I replace them. You are over due for shocks and struts. Plus it will make the Edge handle better.

[rgigowski]

That's what my thoughts were... Any idea what are the best cost conscious replacement shocks/struts out there and possible source?

[macbwt]

I use KYB excel G shocks and struts closest thing to OEM other than Motorcraft. I think the KYB's offer a little stiffer shock and I like that more than a softer shock like the OEM

[rgigowski]

Question on this, camber of my vehicle for the rear tires is pointing in at the base... How are struts and shocks correct this?

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

Shocks & struts don't directly impact camber & toe. But they do contribute to suspension geometry, which changes as you drive (more so on turns, bumpy roads, etc). Having properly functioning shocks & struts at that time will help the suspension geometry to work as designed.

 

People lower their vehicles all the time, using the same shocks/struts they had before the change. But this changes suspension geometry, and also the resultant stresses on the shock/strut. This additional stress can decrease the life of the shock/strut, if the alignment does not adjust for the change in suspension geometry. Hence the need for an alignment in this case. If the geometry changes are extreme enough, you can add additional suspension geometry capabilities by using camber/caster plates, adjustable lower control arms, camber adjustment bolts, etc.

 

Are you eyeballing the camber/toe on the rear wheels, or do you have an alignment sheet to work with?

http://www.santafegarage.com/precision-alignments/camber-explained/

http://www.superstreetonline.com/how-to/chassis-suspension/htup-0712-camber-101-honda-camber-guide/

[rgigowski]

WWWPerfA_ZN0W

 

Awesome reply and thanks for taking the time to do this.

 

Eyeballing it and tread wear on the inside of the rear tires, no alignment specs.

 

I am going to sell it but want to correct this before I do. My gut says shocks/struts won't correct it and something else is needed.

 

What would be the best way to determine that?

 

Again, thanks!

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

Well, I think you have to replace the tire(s) if you want to correct that situation (unless they are non-directional and can be flipped), get an alignment done to correct the camber/toe, and replace the shocks to correct the SAS issue.

[EDST777]

Hello. I also want to ask a question in this topic. After replacement of summer wheels by winter I find out what pulls the car slightly in the right and still..... if to go directly the spoke of a wheel isn't parallel to the earth and is located under not a big corner (about 2-3 degrees). When are established summer (more rigid tires) this effect is almost absent. Question my such: I heard that it is present at Ford how the normal phenomenon, that is pulls the car in the right, or it isn't correct?

Whether to do me a camber a convergence of wheels? also I want to learn about the provision of a wheel, someone has still such problem - that is the wheel at the movement on a straight line is displaced by 2-3 degrees?

[EDST777]

somebody.

[Waldo]

Sorry, but that is very difficult to understand. I assume you're using some translator but that still doesn't make much sense.

 

Changing wheels will never change your alignment. But different tires have different tendencies to pull. Sometimes it's designed in and sometimes it's part of normal variation. Sometimes just changing tires from one side of the car will change the way it pulls, sometimes it will not.

Edited October 26, 2016 by Waldo

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

When was an alignment done last? Wheels will rarely point straight up when properly aligned because it would be an unpleasant experience taking sharp turns, leading to possible tipover.

 

You are correct, the Edge is designed to pull slightly to the right, just like the headlights are aimed slightly to the right. This is for safety reasons so the car does not drift into or shine light into oncoming traffic.

 

While I have never experienced the pull with tires, conditions may be different in your country. What tires do you run in the summer, and which ones in winter? Are the winter tires new or have you used them in previous years? Winter tires are a different compound, so they may be exposing a bias in the car that the summer tires are covering up.

 

Has the Edge been in any accidents lately? Is the steering wheel in the correct position when the wheels are pointed straight ahead?

Edited October 26, 2016 by WWWPerfA_ZN0W

[EDST777]

Thanks. I apologize if the translation isn't clear to someone.

[EDST777]

When was an alignment done last? Wheels will rarely point straight up when properly aligned because it would be an unpleasant experience taking sharp turns, leading to possible tipover.

 

You are correct, the Edge is designed to pull slightly to the right, just like the headlights are aimed slightly to the right. This is for safety reasons so the car does not drift into or shine light into oncoming traffic.

 

While I have never experienced the pull with tires, conditions may be different in your country. What tires do you run in the summer, and which ones in winter? Are the winter tires new or have you used them in previous years? Winter tires are a different compound, so they may be exposing a bias in the car that the summer tires are covering up.

 

Has the Edge been in any accidents lately? Is the steering wheel in the correct position when the wheels are pointed straight ahead?

Thanks. Now I precisely understood that EDGE slightly pulls in the right for safety and it is correct.

About tires: in the summer I use Nokian Hakka Z SUV 245/60 R18. I operate the second season. The general run on summer tires of 10 000 kilometers. Excellent state.

I use NokianHKPL SUV5 245/50 R20 106T XL in the winter. This year the fifth season of operation of winter tires began. All tires in an excellent state, the general run on winter tires of 20 000 kilometers.

When wheels are exposed directly (at advance on the road), the steering wheel has a deviation in 1-2 degrees in the right.

After I shipped the car I didn't do adjustment of tires never, therefore - that there was no occasion (or I didn't draw close attention to a deviation of a steering wheel on 1 - 2 degree on winter tires). On summer tires everything was good. Whether now after summer tires I thought again it is necessary to do me adjustment of tires or it is normal process because of softer tires?

Edited October 26, 2016 by EDST777

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

You shouldn't have to adjust alignment going from summer to winter tires IF alignment has not changed. But the only way to know that is to DO the alignment, which is always a good investment. Because, at the same time, you can inspect the tires for sufficient tread, abnormalities in tread, bulges in the sidewall, etc. and the tire/wheel for being properly balanced. Any of these items can crop up at any time.

 

Also, tires have a finite lifespan, usually 6-7 years in "normal" US climate. Don't know what it would be out in your area, but unless tires are stored in climate-controlled conditions, likely shorter. 5 seasons MAY be at or near the end for the HKPLs. (BTW, I wish I could easily get Nokians in MY area ) So you may want to consider getting a new set of winter tires next season.

 

But definitely get an alignment and wheel balancing done now, along with wheel/tire inspection. That would be my strategy. Then decide if there is more to do.

[enigma-2]

Also, tires have a finite lifespan, usually 6-7 years in "normal" US climate. Don't know what it would be out in your area, but unless tires are stored in climate-controlled conditions, likely shorter. 5 seasons MAY be at or near the end for the HKPLs. (BTW, I wish I could easily get Nokians in MY area

When I read this, the spare tire comes to mind. Setting back there in its little tire bed, sleeping peacefully, tooting a little puff of air every now and then, patiently waiting until that "Red-Nosed Reindeer" moment when it's called on to save us from being stranded.

 

Does 'anyone' ever change a perfectly good spare just because it's 6 or 7 years old? Isn't that the very definition of "age discrimination"? Get me my lawyer.

[EDST777]

o'k. thanks, from this is clear that after all, it is better to make check of adjustment of tires

on winter wheels, it will give the chance to estimate their condition. If I have correctly understood, then most of readers has no shift problem in the right for 1-2 degrees of a steering wheel? For me it was important to understand: if control of a running suspension bracket ford EDGE such what pulls the car a little to the right, respectively at the same time has to be not much displaced the steering wheel (is turned) to the right? or the steering wheel at the same time has to stand exactly (without shift)? Thanks.

Edited October 27, 2016 by EDST777