cv27 Posted May 26, 2016 Report Share Posted May 26, 2016 (edited) Just got back from my 2nd visit to the dealer for the seat back non coolness. Attached is TSB16-0080 which confirms what others have said: it is the same fix as TSB15-0166 plus additional information. I had a good talk with the technician. I've always been under the impression that the seat back cooling mechanism included a TED (ThermoElectric Device). In fact, the seat back only has a blower that sucks supposedly cool ambiant air from under the seat and funnels it up the seat back. This approach probably relies on the fact that cold air falls, hot air rises. But... So, on a hot day, you get the A/C going and, if like me, you leave it on Auto Climate. What typically happens is that the upper vents will get selected because the sensors (I think) detect that the upper portion of the car is much warmer because of heat coming through the windows, and they'll likely stay like that for some time. You may feel the cool air coming out of the vents but the overall ambiant air temperature is far from that. That cool A/C air blowing near the upper portion of the car gets warmed up. By the time it gets to the floor, it's much warmer than what comes out of the A/C vents. So here's what the dealer suggests: select the lower vents, so cooler air gets in the seat back blower. My answer: why did I pay for Auto Climate again? TSB16-0080.pdf Edited May 30, 2016 by cv27 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cv27 Posted May 26, 2016 Report Share Posted May 26, 2016 (edited) Deleted Edited May 30, 2016 by cv27 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cv27 Posted May 26, 2016 Report Share Posted May 26, 2016 I thought I had seen a post on the seat bottom having a TED, but can't find it. Can anyone confirm or refute a TED is used for the seat bottom and perhaps provide details? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t0lkman Posted May 30, 2016 Report Share Posted May 30, 2016 so somebody who has upper backrest seats cooling fixed, can confirm it's working and literally cooling as much as the bottom part? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cv27 Posted June 1, 2016 Report Share Posted June 1, 2016 I thought I had seen a post on the seat bottom having a TED, but can't find it. Can anyone confirm or refute a TED is used for the seat bottom and perhaps provide details? Anyone? Some of the posters have access to the schematics. I'd be really grateful: I could then put this to rest and move on with my life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Proefrock Posted June 2, 2016 Report Share Posted June 2, 2016 cv27, what are you looking for, specifically? The Titanium Edge has two TED's per each seat; one for the bottom (seat portion) and one for the back. The bottom one vents out to the free air under the seat. The one for the back vents to the inside of the seat and that is where the problem begins. The ambient air used by the TED gets heated and reaches a point that the TED can't overcome the heat in the system. If you get the hot air out of the seat back, then it works fine. Same problem on the F150 and the Explorer. All use similar seat designs. TWakefield from F150Forum.com has developed a fix to help alleviate this. I've applied it to my 2015 Edge, after Ford applied the TSB, which didn't fix it. After all this, my seat finally works like it should. FYI Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t0lkman Posted June 2, 2016 Report Share Posted June 2, 2016 (edited) I have Titanium Edge (2016 MY), and even in not hot weather I feel only the bottom part of the seats are being ventilated Edited June 2, 2016 by t0lkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cv27 Posted June 2, 2016 Report Share Posted June 2, 2016 cv27, what are you looking for, specifically? The Titanium Edge has two TED's per each seat; one for the bottom (seat portion) and one for the back. The bottom one vents out to the free air under the seat. The one for the back vents to the inside of the seat and that is where the problem begins. The ambient air used by the TED gets heated and reaches a point that the TED can't overcome the heat in the system. If you get the hot air out of the seat back, then it works fine. Same problem on the F150 and the Explorer. All use similar seat designs. TWakefield from F150Forum.com has developed a fix to help alleviate this. I've applied it to my 2015 Edge, after Ford applied the TSB, which didn't fix it. After all this, my seat finally works like it should. FYI Paul Hi Paul, There seems to be confusion around 'how' the seats are cooled. If you read my previous post, the technician says that the seat back is cooled by funneling up ambiant cool air via a fan at the bottom of the seat. You mention the seat back making use of a TED as well as the bottom. Does each piece, seat back and bottom, have a TED, each with or without a fan? What I'd like to see are the schematics for the ventilated seats, bottom and back, for the 2015 Edge (Titanium). That in my opinion would settled the debate once and for all. It would also help me determine if the technician knows what is is talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
27Sport Posted June 2, 2016 Report Share Posted June 2, 2016 Hi Paul, There seems to be confusion around 'how' the seats are cooled. If you read my previous post, the technician says that the seat back is cooled by funneling up ambiant cool air via a fan at the bottom of the seat. You mention the seat back making use of a TED as well as the bottom. Does each piece, seat back and bottom, have a TED, each with or without a fan? What I'd like to see are the schematics for the ventilated seats, bottom and back, for the 2015 Edge (Titanium). That in my opinion would settled the debate once and for all. It would also help me determine if the technician knows what is is talking about. The seat bottom and back each have their own TED, with a fan on each. I have seen the schematics and even taken apart a Titanium seat myself. Your mechanic does not know what he is talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cv27 Posted June 3, 2016 Report Share Posted June 3, 2016 Anyway you could share the schematics? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
27Sport Posted June 3, 2016 Report Share Posted June 3, 2016 Anyway you could share the schematics? It's proprietary information and I'm not going down that road just so you can see for yourself, sorry. I'm not sure why you don't believe Paul or myself, or even the post about the F150's having the EXACT same seat heating/cooling design and TED's. Anyway, I'm done with this subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Proefrock Posted June 3, 2016 Report Share Posted June 3, 2016 (edited) cv27 Your mechanic doesn't know what he's talking about. If he is your resource, you might want to look elsewhere. He's going to get you in trouble. I've attached a clip of the Ford wiring diagram for the drivers seat. Two TED's, with fans. Spend a couple bucks and get the service manual and wiring diagrams from MotoCraft.com to all the naysayers 1) to the sales guys who said the backs don't cool - why'd Ford put a separate TED in the back and perforate the seat. Go back to school on your product. 2) to the mechanics and service advisors who say the bottom gets its cooling from the A/C system - why the TED in the bottom? again, learn your product. Come on people, it's not that complicated. Ford's got a hiccup in their design and they're trying to fix it with the lowest cost impact. But that approach isn't working too well. F150's, Edge's, Explorers. They've got some issues and it is beginning to haunt them. Edited June 3, 2016 by Paul Proefrock 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t0lkman Posted June 3, 2016 Report Share Posted June 3, 2016 (edited) Guys, so to conclude those TSBs fix the problem or not? Should I go to my dealer and ask to fix the cooling issue on my brand new titanium 2016? I just don't want to have them work on my car if the problem won't be fix or will be fix partially. currently I feel like only the bottom parts of the seats are being cooled Edited June 3, 2016 by t0lkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TourGuide Posted June 3, 2016 Report Share Posted June 3, 2016 Guys, so to conclude those TSBs fix the problem or not? Should I go to my dealer and ask to fix the cooling issue on my brand new titanium 2016? I just don't want to have them work on my car if the problem won't be fix or will be fix partially. currently I feel like only the bottom parts of the seats are being cooled I think people have noted here that the TSB doesn't really address the issue - which is that the warm air isn't expelled from the seat back properly. A new blower motor won't fix that issue. The 3D printed exhaust vent is probably the only near term solution right now. I ordered a set, but it hasn't arrived yet. I'll update this post after I install them to let you know how it works. Someone else in either this post or a similar one has said though that this fix returns the seat back operation to approximately 85% of what you get in the seat bottoms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cv27 Posted June 3, 2016 Report Share Posted June 3, 2016 cv27 Your mechanic doesn't know what he's talking about. If he is your resource, you might want to look elsewhere. He's going to get you in trouble. I've attached a clip of the Ford wiring diagram for the drivers seat. Two TED's, with fans. Spend a couple bucks and get the service manual and wiring diagrams from MotoCraft.com to all the naysayers 1) to the sales guys who said the backs don't cool - why'd Ford put a separate TED in the back and perforate the seat. Go back to school on your product. 2) to the mechanics and service advisors who say the bottom gets its cooling from the A/C system - why the TED in the bottom? again, learn your product. Come on people, it's not that complicated. Ford's got a hiccup in their design and they're trying to fix it with the lowest cost impact. But that approach isn't working too well. F150's, Edge's, Explorers. They've got some issues and it is beginning to haunt them. Paul, Thank you VERY much for that diagram. I'd like to mention to you and the other offended poster that my request for the schematics was NOT because of a lack of faith. As you suggest, I believe my technician is either not up to date on technology or possibly trying to brush me off. I'm heading back to the dealer next week, this time armed with your diagram. This should lead to an interesting conversation that starts with "but you told me last time...". Thank you again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjonis Posted June 3, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2016 cv27, what are you looking for, specifically? The Titanium Edge has two TED's per each seat; one for the bottom (seat portion) and one for the back. The bottom one vents out to the free air under the seat. The one for the back vents to the inside of the seat and that is where the problem begins. The ambient air used by the TED gets heated and reaches a point that the TED can't overcome the heat in the system. If you get the hot air out of the seat back, then it works fine. Same problem on the F150 and the Explorer. All use similar seat designs. TWakefield from F150Forum.com has developed a fix to help alleviate this. I've applied it to my 2015 Edge, after Ford applied the TSB, which didn't fix it. After all this, my seat finally works like it should. FYI Paul Eeesh. $130 for the exhaust part (not sure if you need the intake/exhaust and have no idea how much it is because it's sold out). I'm a tad confused by their instructions, but short of a YouTube video... Wow, wonder/hope they have it fixed in the 2017 then. Either that or *if* I can get a 2016 in Nov. with what I want (ha), make the dealer take off $500 for me having to fix Ford's screw up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pardo714 Posted June 20, 2016 Report Share Posted June 20, 2016 Took my 15 Edge in today backs of the seats are not cooling. Dealer just called said they have ordered seat motors. I will update when I get it back tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omar302 Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 Today I was at the dealer checking the 2016 Edge, finally they arrived, unfortunately too expensive $54K! Anyway, I noticed that the seat backs, just above the rear map pockets, are perforated. Thought this might be a new change to allow the seat back to ventilate the heat. Maybe those facing the problem can chime in if this is indeed a new design change to fix the issue. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TourGuide Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 (edited) Today I was at the dealer checking the 2016 Edge, finally they arrived, unfortunately too expensive $54K! Anyway, I noticed that the seat backs, just above the rear map pockets, are perforated. Thought this might be a new change to allow the seat back to ventilate the heat. Maybe those facing the problem can chime in if this is indeed a new design change to fix the issue. IMAG2328.jpg IMAG2329.jpg My seats have this perforation and I can tell everyone conclusively that the perforation doesn't do ANYTHING to assist the problem with the seat backs not cooling properly. Each time the idea of the seat perforations somehow imparting a 'flow through' ventilation I am surprised anew. In order for the perforation to have THAT level of permeability the seat would have to contain all of the supportive characteristics of a hammock. Perforated leather does nothing to help with this problem. Edited June 25, 2016 by TourGuide Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjonis Posted July 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2016 Today I was at the dealer checking the 2016 Edge, finally they arrived, unfortunately too expensive $54K! Anyway, I noticed that the seat backs, just above the rear map pockets, are perforated. Thought this might be a new change to allow the seat back to ventilate the heat. Maybe those facing the problem can chime in if this is indeed a new design change to fix the issue. IMAG2328.jpg IMAG2329.jpg Nope. I finally test drove a 2016 Edge Titanium AWD/Turbo with 302A package. It was very warm today. Seat cooled extremely well. NOTHING on the back. I sweated all over the back of the seat (ha) Too bad as it will go in my "con" column when I test drive the Hyundai and Kia this weekend. Unfortunately my current car is pooping the bed big time, hence why I'm re-looking again now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t0lkman Posted July 1, 2016 Report Share Posted July 1, 2016 let us know if hyundai/kia have their cooling seats working properly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjonis Posted July 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2016 let us know if hyundai/kia have their cooling seats working properly Will do. I know the 2014 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport cools back and bum. I didn't test it out in Nov. when I last looked (too cool). but now that I know it's an issue on the Fords, will hopefully be able to test this weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TourGuide Posted July 2, 2016 Report Share Posted July 2, 2016 I'm looking for a good explanation of how to get the seat back covers unzipped on the 2016 Edge Sport. I ordered one of the exhaust kits but I am finding the direction set leaves me with questions. Can anyone help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Proefrock Posted July 3, 2016 Report Share Posted July 3, 2016 The seat covers on an Edge do not unzip. They are "slipped" over the foam seat. You have to peel them off, kind of rolling them back on themselves. There is some velcro tabs on the front side in the seams and once they've been loosened, it peels back a little easier. It's not an easy job but it can be done. I've attached a pdf of the shop manual showing how to do it. Paul Edge_Seat Back blower motor.pdf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TourGuide Posted July 3, 2016 Report Share Posted July 3, 2016 The seat covers on an Edge do not unzip. They are "slipped" over the foam seat. You have to peel them off, kind of rolling them back on themselves. There is some velcro tabs on the front side in the seams and once they've been loosened, it peels back a little easier. It's not an easy job but it can be done. I've attached a pdf of the shop manual showing how to do it. Paul Fantastic - that is EXACTLY what I needed! Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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