perrytime Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 no check engine light set, I noticed the cruise @ 70mph MPG dropped from near 30 when i last checked it to 22-23. picked up one those cheap blue tooth OBDII scanners, and saw O2 sensor was lazy, not switching very fast at all, new O2 coming in soon. It is such an easy job, and going to dealer such a pain, and I doubt Emissions warranty covers it, I am doing it myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWPerfA_ZN0W Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 Do you have the 2.0EB in the Edge? I take it there were no codes set either? A lot of them will not trigger the CEL. Which sensor was it? Bank 2 sensor 1 by any chance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perrytime Posted October 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 looks like I was careless, the scan tool was showing bank1 sensor 2, which is after cat, my scan tool cannot show bank1 sensor1 , i guess the new wide band O2 sensors are something different. no codes were set, new up stream O2 sensor didn't help my MPG, I see at idle my LTFT is high, 15. I need to see what it does on the highway, finding scantool software that will let me read fuel rail pressure sensor, ( 2000psi) may be difficult, starting to think a visit to dealer is un avoidable.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWPerfA_ZN0W Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) Torque Pro on Android and ForScan on Apple/Android are the most popular software titles out there for low-cost scantools. If your OBD adapter is wifi, best to stick with Torque Pro. ForScan can be rather demanding with refresh rates (it is internally set, you cannot change it). Bluetooth should work with either OK. If you decide on Torque Pro, you will have to see what PIDs (process identifiers) are available to you. Shouldn't need custom PIDs for O2 sensors/FRP. Do you know what FRP you are supposed to be seeing? Different MYs might have different limits, depending on the HPFP employed. I believe we have had at least one instance of fuel pump issues with the 2.0EB on this forum. If you suspect that is the culprit, here are some TSBs related to the fuel system: MALFUNCTION INDICATOR LAMP (MIL) - DIAGNOSTIC TROUBLE CODE (DTC) P0456 TSBID: 179345 Mfg Num: 13-2-2 Issue Date: 2013-02-07 2.0L/FWD - FUEL GAUGE WILL NOT READ FULL - SLOW FILL - BUILT ON OR BEFORE 10/1/2012 TSBID: 180526 Mfg Num: 13-5-10 Issue Date: 2013-05-09 CERTAIN 2012 MODEL YEAR EDGE VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH 2.0L ENGINE - FUEL LINE INSPECTION AND REPLACEMENT TSBID: 182385 Mfg Num: 12S40-S1 Issue Date: 2012-09-01 2.0L GTDI ENGINE-DRIVABILITY CONCERNS-DTCS P0128/P0106 OR P0236 TSBID: 182451 Mfg Num: 13-9-8 Issue Date: 2013-09-09 The fuel line pulse damper metal housing may crack as a result of an improper manufacturing process. A cracked fuel line pulse damper housing may result in a combination of fuel odor, weepage, or a continuous leak while the fuel system is pressurized. TSBID: 182752 Mfg Num: 14V002000 Issue Date: 2014-01-06 EASY FUEL CAPLESS-CONCERNS WITH FUEL NOZZLE INSERTION OR REMOVAL TSBID: 186074 Mfg Num: 14-0132 Issue Date: 2014-07-22 Edited October 30, 2015 by WWWPerfA_ZN0W Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perrytime Posted November 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2015 thanks for help, I had the recall for fuel damper done, have 2012 with 2.0 engine. no pending codes. last weekend i saw LTFT at 15 on highway as well at idle. web searches suggested MAF or low fuel pressure, or injector can causes lean condition on highway. I am not sure if I have a MAF, scan tool doesn't show any values, so out of desperation i add can of sea foam to tank. so a week goes buy and i buy a OBDII app, OBD fusion. this one shows fuel pressure. not even a listing for MAF. pressure is 288lbs at idle, i take edge on highway, 1900lbs while accelerating, 1400lbs while cruising, and now I see LTFT at 6, and getting 30mpg at 70mph, seems like edge is running right. I still have LTFT of 15 at idle or coasting, but about 6 when crusing. App still doesn't show voltage for O2 bank1 sensor1 sensor, but since the sensor is new no concerns there. To measure tank fuel pump pressure you need a special Tee to put in fuel line to be able to attache gauge. So i have no idea what normal fuel rail pressure at idle should be, does anyone else know? a $10 ford mechanic manual on CD, from ebay, didn't have test procedure.. did the sea foam help or do i just have a intermittent problem? keeping finges crossed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWPerfA_ZN0W Posted November 9, 2015 Report Share Posted November 9, 2015 (edited) The EB engines use a MAP sensor, not a MAF sensor, so look for that, it should be available to monitor (as a basic, common PID). I'll have to look to see how a 4 cylinder's O2 sensor might be titled in the app, but that info should also be available. Since OBD Fusion is an Apple app, Forscan is an alternative tool that will work great. Per their webpage, this might be what to look for: 0x06 Short term fuel % trim - Bank 1 0x07 Long term fuel % trim - Bank 1 0x08 Short term fuel % trim - Bank 2 0x09 Long term fuel % trim - Bank 2 0x14 Oxygen sensor voltage, Short term fuel trim (Bank 1, Sensor 1) 0x15 Oxygen sensor voltage, Short term fuel trim (Bank 1, Sensor 2) Also see if there is a misfire counter available in the software. I am more familiar with the V6 3.5 EB's, but on well-running vehicles, LTFT is always 2-3 or below, never in double digits. Even STFT should not be > 5. These engines are very tightly controlled. Do need to see the O2 voltages to see if maybe a leaky injector is an issue. Try pulling the MAP sensor and cleaning it with MAF cleaner, it could very well be as simple as that (tho I am skeptical of that). NOTE: If it IS an injector issue, should be covered under the powertrain and possibly even under the emissions warranty. Fuel pressures at the rail under acceleration look fine to me (I don't have the specs for the L4's tho). The V6's use 2400-2700 psi at WOT typically. Idle might be high, usually at or under 200 psi for the V6, but again, for the L4 IDK. The values might be listed in the specifications section of the Fuel System on the manual's CD. Have you finished the tank w Seafoam? Keep a watch on the mpg, acceleration, misfires, etc. If there IS a problem, it should manifest in SOME way. Edited November 9, 2015 by WWWPerfA_ZN0W Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perrytime Posted November 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2015 you really got my curiosity up, how does watching the O2 sensor help find leaking injector? Since the LTFT is positive 15, doesn't that mean engine is lean and wouldn't a leaking injector create rich condition? thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWPerfA_ZN0W Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 You are right, +ve LTFT implies lean conditions, implying low voltage at the O2 sensor, which could be caused by sticking fuel injectors (rich conditions by leaking injectors). Seeing the O2 voltages directly tells you if the sensor is working properly, flipping back and forth on a regular basis like it's supposed to. Have you installed the new sensor already? Rear O2s traditionally switch slower than Front O2s, as their information is not considered as critical to the operation of the engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perrytime Posted November 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 thanks again for the help, the new O2 sensor was installed a week before I added the sea foam, that tank has been used up. I have 45,000 miles, a little room before emissions warranty is up. no miss fires. I will keep watching and see what develops, i think finding out if 280lbs of fuel pressure at idle is okay or not is important. And seeing O2 sensor is important, 4 different free apps and my OBD fusion can't see it, maybe torque pro could. my OBD fusion is not apple, running on android tablet. the MAP sensor does move, maybe I will pull it out and use a vacuum pump hooked to it and see if matches scan tool. STFT is near always near 0 at idle when LTFT is 15. SInce vehicle seems to running fine now, good mpg on highway, not sure how important to solve this idle LTFT issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWPerfA_ZN0W Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 Would just get familiar with patterns as much as possible for now (but at a relaxed pace ). If any noticeable issue develops, it will be easier to tell what is off (besides possibly having codes to assist). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perrytime Posted January 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2016 just a quick update, the poor mpg on highway returned and long term fuel trims rose, 20 at idle compared to 15 before. I observed on cold start the fuel pressure was several hundred pounds higher than when hot and still the LTFT was still quit positive, so i doubt fuel pressure is my root cause. Took car to dealer with my documented issues, high long term fuel trim, poor MPG at 70, and how the injector cleaner temporarily helped. Much to my disappointment, the starting service adviser left and the the replacement knew nothing, the technician report showed he recorded mpg at around town speeds, didn't address my LTFT concerns, and declared nothing is wrong with car. Disgusted. I just got my follow up survey form, will let them hear it. I have since done another dose of cleaner, this time ran a few miles with cleaner added to near empty tank, long LTFT dropped to 5 at idle, and MPG improved. Maybe once the issue returns, I will try the other Dealer with specific discussion about last visit to dealer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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