Tail light Condensation

[GenEDGE]

Will have to upload a pic of the dealer notes when I get home.

 

My claim was DENIED. They claim there's exterior damage to the lense (what looks like a cat tried to jump up on the car scratched the lense slightly). Asked what I'll have to do to actually get it replaced and asked if I would have to call a Ford rep. Was told that they would be willing to look at it a a later time and see if they could reseal the unit or something.

 

Also was told by the manager that he's seen a few other units with the same condensation issue.

 

Smh....what do you think guys??

Edited October 31, 2017 by GenEDGE

[GenEDGE]

Will have to upload a pic of the dealer notes when I get home.

 

My claim was DENIED. They claim there's exterior damage to the lense (what looks like a cat tried to jump up on the car scratched the lense slightly). Asked what I'll have to do to actually get it replaced and asked if I would have to call a Ford rep. Was told that they would be willing to look at it a a later time and see if they could reseal the unit or something.

 

Also was told by the manager that he's seen a few other units with the same condensation issue.

 

Smh....what do you think guys??

[enigma-2]

The owners manual starts the lighting chapter by addressing condensation.

 

"Condensation in the Exterior Front Lamps and Rear Lamps Exterior front lamps and rear lamps have vents to accommodate normal changes in air pressure." (This is on page 85 in the 2017 manual).

 

They go.on to say "Examples of acceptable condensation are:

The presence of a fine mist (no streaks, drip marks or large droplets).

A fine mist covers less than 50% of the lens."

 

Based on the pictures you uploaded, I would say your lenses don't exceed the Ford requirement for replacment.

 

If the scratch goes deep enough to penetrate all the way through the plastic (no cat is going to scratch all the way through the plastic), you could reseal it with some clear fingernail polish or brush applied topcoat.

 

Under normal conditions, warm, moist air enters the lens through the vent hole in the lens, and condenses in the cool night air.

 

If you want to get ahead of this, you could get the water vapor out (hair dryer?) and close the vent with a piece of heavy, plastic sealing tape.

.

Edited October 31, 2017 by enigma-2

[rerhart]

My 2015 Edge SEL has had dripping condensation in it for about 1 year now. I've mentioned it to my dealer now 3 times...before my warranty was up, and now I'm at 42k. They say the same thing every time... "It will clear up in the right conditions". This last time I brought it in they said it can't be fixed and that even a replacement won't fix it, I have to live with it.

Edited December 7, 2017 by rerhart

[ONEDGE16]

My 2015 Edge SEL has had dripping condensation in it for about 1 year now. I've mentioned it to my dealer now 3 times...before my warranty was up, and now I'm at 42k. They say the same thing every time... "It will clear up in the right conditions". This last time I brought it in they said it can't be fixed and that even a replacement won't fix it, I have to live with it.

Have you tried a different dealership?

[Shaun_inuk]

Bought a 2017 Edge Vignale last week with 600 miles on it, after rain and a wash this weekend the lights are fogged with condensation and water droplets, contacted the dealer who said there is a fix for it on Fords system, so took it to my local dealer today and it's been booked in for Friday to have new lights and bar fitted under warranty.

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

not bad turnaround.

[Shaun_inuk]

Very pleased with that, for a 40k car you'd expect a good level of service though, very disappointing for others on here who seem to have been told to suck it up.

[Shaun_inuk]

Thought i'd post an update, my dealer cancelled my original appointment as they were having trouble getting the middle section of the 3 part rear light display, I gave them a week and contacted them again, this time showing much displeasure, they still had no time frame for the middle bar so the car is going in Monday and they are going to fit the new outer lights and a light bar from one of the new vehicles in their inventory, now thats what i call service, cannibalising a new car for parts for me, just hoping the light unit from that car is an updated part if such a thing exists, at least having the work done puts responsibility in their court.

[Gail Hicks]

I too have had condensation/water droplet build up in my rear tail lights of my 2016 Ford Edge. I first noticed it while out of town and immediately went to my home Ford dealership on my return. Of course, the condensation was gone by the time I got back a week later, The service department told me they had to actually see it before they could do anything about it. Well, the next time it happened, I was out of town so I took pictures. Again, on my return I went back to dealership and one of the lights still had the water droplets in there, I was told that Ford considered it normal and probably wouldn't do anything about it? SMH. But, they would send in some pictures to see if Ford warranty department would approve fixing it. I don't find the water/condensation build up "normal" at all. I have NEVER seen it on any other make/model vehicle. This is my first new Ford I have ever bought in my life and really enjoy the Ford Edge. But if this doesn't get resolved, I would not purchase another Ford just based on the customer service department not honoring an obvious flaw in the design of their product. I see problems arising from condensation/water buildup. It also cosmetically looks really bad.

Edited March 7, 2018 by Gail Hicks

[CTFordfan]

Cornelius24- where are these o rings located and do you have a part number and any related info from the invoice?

 

Does anyone know why these LED lights need to be vented? As others have said this seems like an issue of quality, for many years manufacturers have been able to seal the lenses properly. The design of the lighting on modern vehicles plays into the body lines and is probably a factor for some to choose a vehicle over another, making this a highly visible quality issue. Also the lighting is actually a safety device so if this condensation eventually causes failures this should certainly qualify as a recall by NTSB.

[CTFordfan]

I owned a commercial truck for a while and if I installed a bunch of lights on it- they all need to work or chance failing a roadside inspection.

Lighting is for safety and even if it was decorative, the code says all lights must function. It does not mention decorative lighting.

Same should apply to the car manufacturers- if they put it on the vehicle- it should reliably function for the life of the vehicle-

[keys213]

replaced right and left tail lamps twice, center reflector once, all three again showing condensation, took pictures brought to the dealer, they received a reply in less than four hours ? from FORD. here is their reply:

 

The images provided are very small but we only see normal condensation in both tail lamps and the center deflector. Exterior lamps are vented to the atmosphere to accommodate normal changes in pressure. Condensation can be a natural by-produvt of this design. When humid air enters the lamp assembly through the vents, there is a possibility that condensation can occur. This can happen after a vehicle has been driven in the rain, after being washed, or when there is a significant drop in ambient temperature in comparison to normal operating temperature of the lamp after the lamps are turned off.

 

When normal condensation occurs, a thin film of mist can form on the interior of the lamps lens similar to a windshield fogging in cold/rainy conditions. The thin mist eventually clears and exits through the vents during normal lamp operation. Clearing time may take as long as 48 hours under dry weather conditions. These conditions are a natural condensation process and not a defect in the manufacturing of the lamp assembly. THANK YOU FORD. Owning cars for over 56 years not once did any of those cars ever have this problem. An engineering marvel from FORD. Once again THANK YOU FORD. So don't drive your car in the rain, wash it or ever have it in an non-ambient temperature.

[omar302]

Keys213, the reply is clear stating that the images they received are very small, so they made a standard reply.

 

My feeling is that the dealer is not presenting the case correctly. Maybe they have even installed the older version taillights.

[PCCuda]

We have the same condensation problem on the lift-gate lens. Have it scheduled to be replaced. Nothing takes it out, when parked in the sun, it doesn't dry out. I started looking at other Edge's in the area and it seems chronic. Already had the windshield replaced twice because of distortion. This lens is a flaw that wasn't remedied up for this generation. The Engineering/QC department at Ford must be napping..!! The response I read here from Ford is unacceptable, this area should be sealed just like the regular taillights!! Gets to be frustrating especially when you pay a good price for a vehicle, can't very well trade in a vehicle with 5,000 miles on it...I don't believe Toyota, Honda, Mazda etc... have Engineers that would not figure this out and fix it, maybe in the future we should look at other makes. We've owned Fords for 30 years and never had this type of thing happen.

[m__________d]

I have the same problem with my 2017 Edge which I bought last week (see top pictures below)

I just joined this group today so I could share my findings....

I read all of your above posts (very informative)...but no known fix; dealers useless etc ... deep despair ... however ...
Yesterday I removed the rear trim and the centre lamp assy and retreated to my workshop with it.
On inspection the central (behind Ford badge) connector sealing cap was dettached and I 'think' this was the path in for moisture.
In order to remove the moisture I peeled off 2x blue circular stickers which cover holes at either end of the assy and then blew air into each by rigging up-- i. an electrical inflation pump at one end and ii. the wife's hairdryer at the other (see pictures).
The centre seal which i mentioned above was left off to allow the moist air to vent out.
One hour of this and the lamp was clear of all moisture.
I replaced the 2x blue stickers (they are crap) + some extra tape over them & then reassembled the lamp to the car -- in all 2hrs work -- time will tell if I need to do this again ….

 

 

condensation.pdf

Edited August 17, 2018 by m__________d

[Chipster]

By all means keep us posted. Nice job by the way!

[enigma-2]

Is it your opinion that the moisture is getting in though these stickers?

 

Or if through the "vents", why not just dry out the lights and seal the vents with clear silicon sealant?

Edited August 17, 2018 by enigma-2

[m__________d]

...reporting back after my post 4 days ago.

It didn't work.

The night after my "fix" it rained heavily for a prolonged period of time and when I went out to the car in the morning the lamp was again full of condensation. Damn.

Not one to be easily defeated off it came again and I gave it a good looking at...this time in very bright sunlight.

I spotted something that I missed last time...2x pin holes drilled in the lower outboard corners at each end (see 1st picture).

This is a rework according to me made by the supplier to Ford-- the lamp is marked with a date (june 2016) with a paint-pen which indicates to me the date of the rework.

Also the welding of the lens to the body of the lamp appeared to be incomplete in areas--I think this is the root-cause of the problem...a supplier quality issue...the drilled holes are the half-arsed attempt to let that moisture out. Never gunna work (would love to see the 8D for that)!

So... I again got the condensation out using the same method as before. And then went on to seal the complete lamp up with black silicon (@enigma-2 we're on the same wavelength I think).

I completely sealed it all round (pics attached) and replaced the blue stickers with something more substantial.

After I had done this I took the car for a jet-wash and whilst I went easy around the lamp there was later evidence of condensation again. This could be some residual stuff from before my rework and it went away after a bit of sun.

I'm keeping an eye on this....but in any case I don't know what to do next if its still not fixed.

As an aside I relocated the rubber seal between the lamp and the screen. Having looked at it I do not believe it was designed to be fitted under-flush to the lamp/screen assy. The profile suggests it should be fitted the way I have (again a pic below). Debatable whether it looks worse than the original build...but it will certainly keep more moisture away like this.

Edited August 20, 2018 by m__________d

[wildbillpookers]

Hello, I bought my new Edge SEL in November of 2016.

Since then I have had the tail lights replaced 3 times and once on the rear lift door due to water inside the lamps!

I have 80,000kms on it now so no warranty left and the rear lift door lights are full of water AGAIN?? 

The dealer ship told me I would be responsible as there is no warranty on my car!

I thought parts had a 1 year warranty on them?

They told me that warranty goes back to the first claim???

I am really pissed at FORD over this to the point that I could sell my Edge and NEVER buy Ford again!

 

This water in the tail lights is a joke!

Who has ever heard of vented LED lights ?

[TheWizard]

Lights are vented for two reasons... heat dissipation and pressure changes.  Pressure changes are independent of lamp type - incandescent, halogen, HID or LED.  Although LEDs themselves don't produce any significant heat, the circuitry to run them (called the driver, equivalent to the ballast on HID lamps) does produce a lot of heat.  That's why you'll see heat sinks and sometimes even fans attached to LED bulbs and why the enclosures will usually be vented.

 

As far as warranty goes, all of the "Big 3" manufacturers have the same policy regarding replacement parts.  The warranty starts with the first replacement and runs for the warranty period (usually one year) regardless of how many additional replacements are made during that time.  It is, after all, a limited warranty and that's one of the limits.  I agree that it's not fair but it's not a Ford thing.  I suspect that even the major imports have the same or similar warranties.

 

[wildbillpookers]

23 minutes ago, TheWizard said:

Lights are vented for two reasons... heat dissipation and pressure changes.  Pressure changes are independent of lamp type - incandescent, halogen, HID or LED.  Although LEDs themselves don't produce any significant heat, the circuitry to run them (called the driver, equivalent to the ballast on HID lamps) does produce a lot of heat.  That's why you'll see heat sinks and sometimes even fans attached to LED bulbs and why the enclosures will usually be vented.

 

As far as warranty goes, all of the "Big 3" manufacturers have the same policy regarding replacement parts.  The warranty starts with the first replacement and runs for the warranty period (usually one year) regardless of how many additional replacements are made during that time.  It is, after all, a limited warranty and that's one of the limits.  I agree that it's not fair but it's not a Ford thing.  I suspect that even the major imports have the same or similar warranties.

 

So, are you trying to tell me that there are heat sinks and sometimes even fans attached to LED bulbs inside my lights?

I really don't think so!

Yes, aftermarket headlights have these because they are not stock!

[TheWizard]

No, your tail lights don't have fans but they definitely have heat sinks.  Sometimes heat sinks are not obvious because they are integrated into the bulb structure (aluminum backing and similar technologies).  Sometimes they are external - my Mustang tail lights have fairly large aluminum discs on the backs of the LED modules.  With aftermarket they are usually integrated into the bulb structure for miniature bulbs (1157, 3157, etc.) and external for high output bulbs like headlights and fog lights.  But they are always there in one form or another - the physics of LED lamps requires it.  LEDs are sensitive to heat (like any integrated circuit) and will fail prematurely if heat isn't properly dissipated.

[wildbillpookers]

Well I think we are off topic here.

I have been driving for 50 years and have NEVER had vented lights! 

Personally they are a joke for FORD to make money. 

[TheWizard]

Okay, I understand... we're off topic because you don't like the answer to your question "Who has ever heard of vented LED lights ?"  You just want to be angry at Ford without getting explanations.  I'd bet that in your 50 years of driving you haven't had factory LED lights before (because if you did, they were vented).