What is leaking in these pictures?

[DunePearlEdge]

Many of the folks here on the forum are more mechanically inclined than I am. While doing an oil change I noticed the back of the trans on my 98k mile 2007 3.5 AWD looks very wet. The first picture is from the front underside of the car looking rearward and the second picture is a close up of the rear engine/trans mount. I checked the trans fluid after the car had been parked overnight and it is near max on the stick and very red in color. I noticed the car now has a slight vibration. Any idea what this is? It looks like a lot of fluid, is it possibly just condensation from the A/C unit?

[macbwt]

Check out this video at about the 25 min mark. You will see that I had the same issue. Combination of leaks, but for sure it was a rear main seal and a axle seal leak. I just started putting high mileage oil into the engine to swell the seals and it alway ran great and hardly leaked enough to even worry about.

 

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

It does look like an engine oil leak, like mac said. So try a good High Mileage motor oil. Should state clearly on the label that it has seal swellers. If you like, clean the area first with engine cleaner to observe current behavior. Doesn't look like an old/past issue, but it might be.

 

Are you referring to the 19 minute mark on the video, mac?

 

These are the engine oil leak points from the FSM:

 

Leakage Points — Underhood

Examine the following areas for oil leakage:

• Valve cover gaskets
• Cylinder head gaskets
• Oil cooler, if equipped
• Oil filter adapter
• Engine front cover
• Oil filter adapter and filter body
• Oil level indicator tube connection
• Oil pressure sensor

Leakage Points — Under Engine, With Vehicle on Hoist

Examine the following areas for oil leakage:

• Oil pan gaskets
• Oil pan sealer
• Engine front cover gasket
• Crankshaft front seal
• Crankshaft rear oil seal
• Oil filter adapter and filter body
• Oil cooler, if equipped

Leakage Points — With Transmission and Flywheel Removed

Examine the following areas for oil leakage:

• Crankshaft rear oil seal
• Rear main bearing cap parting line
• Flexplate mounting bolt holes (with flexplate installed)
• Pipe plugs at the end of oil passages

Oil leaks at crimped seams in sheet metal parts and cracks in cast or stamped parts can be detected when using the dye method.

 

BTW, here are links to the engine/transaxle mounting parts:

 

2007-2010 3.5L:

https://secure.revolutionparts.com/levittown-ford/auto-parts/2007/ford/edge/sel-trim/3-5l-v6-gas-engine/engine-cat/engine-and-trans-mounting-scat

 

2011+ 3.5L

https://secure.revolutionparts.com/levittown-ford/auto-parts/2011/ford/edge/sel-trim/3-5l-v6-gas-engine/engine-cat/engine-and-trans-mounting-scat

 

2012+ 2.0EB

https://secure.revolutionparts.com/levittown-ford/auto-parts/2012/ford/edge/sel-trim/2-0l-l4-gas-engine/engine-cat/engine-and-trans-mounting-scat

Edited July 27, 2015 by WWWPerfA_ZN0W

[macbwt]

You are correct I meant the 19minute mark. The video is about 25 minutes long. Looked at the wrong timing. I do know that the Orange Crush developed leaks at the axle seal very early, but the leak never became an issue. Just wet all the time. The rear main seal leak developed about the 160K mile mark and too a long time to develop into enough of a leak for me to start using High Mileage oil, which seemed to help slow it down. I will note that at no time did this effect the engine nor the oil consumption. Just a few drips but I never saw small puddles under the Orange Crush.

 

DunePearlEdge - just watch it and note that your edge will keep running great the oil leak is not worth the money to repair. Run it through a good car wash with under carriage washing and you will be fine. Also whatever you do, do not increase the oil weight thinking it will slow the leak as this will cause other issues.

It does look like an engine oil leak, like mac said. So try a good High Mileage motor oil. Should state clearly on the label that it has seal swellers. If you like, clean the area first with engine cleaner to observe current behavior. Doesn't look like an old/past issue, but it might be.

 

Are you referring to the 19 minute mark on the video, mac?

 

These are the engine oil leak points from the FSM:

 

Leakage Points — Underhood

Examine the following areas for oil leakage:

• Valve cover gaskets
• Cylinder head gaskets
• Oil cooler, if equipped
• Oil filter adapter
• Engine front cover
• Oil filter adapter and filter body
• Oil level indicator tube connection
• Oil pressure sensor

Leakage Points — Under Engine, With Vehicle on Hoist

Examine the following areas for oil leakage:

• Oil pan gaskets
• Oil pan sealer
• Engine front cover gasket
• Crankshaft front seal
• Crankshaft rear oil seal
• Oil filter adapter and filter body
• Oil cooler, if equipped

Leakage Points — With Transmission and Flywheel Removed

Examine the following areas for oil leakage:

• Crankshaft rear oil seal
• Rear main bearing cap parting line
• Flexplate mounting bolt holes (with flexplate installed)
• Pipe plugs at the end of oil passages

Oil leaks at crimped seams in sheet metal parts and cracks in cast or stamped parts can be detected when using the dye method.

 

BTW, here are links to the engine/transaxle mounting parts:

 

2007-2010 3.5L:

https://secure.revolutionparts.com/levittown-ford/auto-parts/2007/ford/edge/sel-trim/3-5l-v6-gas-engine/engine-cat/engine-and-trans-mounting-scat

 

2011+ 3.5L

https://secure.revolutionparts.com/levittown-ford/auto-parts/2011/ford/edge/sel-trim/3-5l-v6-gas-engine/engine-cat/engine-and-trans-mounting-scat

 

2012+ 2.0EB

https://secure.revolutionparts.com/levittown-ford/auto-parts/2012/ford/edge/sel-trim/2-0l-l4-gas-engine/engine-cat/engine-and-trans-mounting-scat

[DunePearlEdge]

Wow, thanks for the great help! I had been changing the oil every 7,500 with full synthetic 5w20, which is what I used during this past change when I noticed the leak. Should I keep this in there and just add oil if it looks low on the dip stick or shall I change it again and put in synthetic with oil sweller (if synthetic is available with sweller)? Very rarely I notice a slight burning smell while waiting for a stop light, could this be related to the oil leak or it landing on the hot exhaust pipe?

 

Also, I've recently noticed a speed dependent humming noise has developed. It's not rough but the pitch changes with speed. Could this be related to this leak? Could this be the due a to wheel bearing or the dreaded PTU?

 

And finally, I have to hold the steering wheel slightly crooked when driving on the highway to keep the vehicle moving straight. And when holding the wheel at one particular angle the left front wheel seemed to have a very slight bounce to it (more audio than feeling through the wheel). Could this be related to the leak?

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

Some of that oil must be landing on the exhaust pipe, and with no airflow (i.e. idling), the pipe gets hot enough to burn it off.

 

If it's labeled as a High Mileage oil, it more than likely has seal conditioners listed on the label, as for Mobil 1:

https://mobiloil.com/en/motor-oils/mobil-1/mobil-1-high-mileage

http://www.valvoline.com/our-products/motor-oil/full-synthetic-max-life

http://www.castrol.com/en_us/united-states/motor-oil/synthetic-blend-motor-oil/gtx-high-mileage-motor-oil.html

 

 

Switch to a full synth HM oil, that should help. Also, if you have not done the PCV valve/spark plugs yet, now is a good time to do so. If the valve is blocked partially or completely, it will increase backpressure in the engine leading to leaks at the most vulnerable point.

 

Speed dependent is usually wheel bearing, does it increase more when turning the steering left or right? I assume the noise is coming from the front since you mention the PTU. If you see any leaks on the PTU side, you may have leaks there also: reddish is trans fluid, brownish is PTU gear oil.

 

The steering issue could simple be a wheel alignment issue. When did you last have this done? Steering components would be checked at alignment time. It is possible the steering column needs a bit of adjustment also to keep it pointed straight.

Edited July 27, 2015 by WWWPerfA_ZN0W

[macbwt]

First the oil - Just change the oil at your next interval with a high mileage oil. I used Mobile One, but you can go with your preference.

 

The smell may be from your PTU? Akirby/WWW? it can drip and cause the burning smell. You may wish to flush the PTU and reintroduce new oil/lube into the PTU.

 

Wheel bearing noise will change at speeds and you can verify by driving down a straight highway then changing lanes. When you change lanes the pitch or noise will reduce or increase. If this occurs then you have wheel bearing worn. Then you have to determine which bearing, which can be hard to tell sometimes, but you can just by jacking it up and turning the wheels and or pulling pushing on them. No one wheel bearing will wear out first so I could not tell you which to check, but I tended to have more problems with the right rear wheel bearings.

 

Left front - Few issues here. If you are on the original struts then change them. It is time. The bearing mount wears out and will provide an audible thump. Also if the wheel is bouncy the strut is worn and needs replacing (remember replace in pairs) You may also want to verify the left and right ball joints are in good shape along with the outer tie rod ends. I never had an issue with the inner tie rods or the outter ones but I replaced them when I replace the Lower Control arms

 

Lower control arm replacement.

[macbwt]

As WWW mentioned you are due a few regular maintence items go to my channel and you will find several videos on the topics he mentioned.

 

click here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJb7karK2nhyA7G1BW6xESg

Edited July 27, 2015 by macbwt

[DunePearlEdge]

Again, you guys are great! With this much help Im tempted to just keep the car running for a long time. Macbwt: Ill check your youtube channel when I get home this evening.

 

Oil: I'll follow your recommendation and wait until the next oil change to move to synthetic high mileage. I assume going another 7500 miles is okay as long as I keep an eye on the oil level via the dipstick.

 

Spark plugs: Does changing the spark plugs require any special skill or tools? My socket set has a spark plug socket which Ive never used. I know you have to remove the windshield cowl to reach the rear cylinder bank set, is removing the intake manifold necessary? I've changed oil, brakes, engine bolt-ons, EVAP system, and coilovers (in my import tuner youth days) in the past. Would this make one qualified to change spark plugs?

 

PCV: WWWPerfA_ZN0W: I assume PCV = positive crank vent and this is just a tube on one (or both) of the cylinder heads that dumps into the intake manifold. Do I just pull this apart and look for a blockage and is this hard to get too? Are there any other components that are worth changing while things are apart?

 

Suspension: I assume the best approach is to start from the bottom (cheapest) option and move up which in this case would be an alignment. Is it better to get the alignment done at the dealer or an independent shop like NTB? Is the dealer more likely to tell me if other suspension components need remedy or replacement than a small independent shop? Do wheels ever need rebalancing over time if the tires are not changed?

 

Next would be suspension components. For ball joints are these checked mainly by looking if the rubber boot is ripped and devoid of grease? The last car I did work on was my little cousins Acura RSX; I installed coilovers and noticed that his ball joint boots on the steering tie-rod ends were slightly ripped and starting to push out grease. Im a little reluctant to change the front struts because my wife loves the smooth ride but I will if the bouncing isnt fixed by the realignment. I assume Ford branded struts is the best bet? In my youth Honda days it was possible to get aftermarket shocks (Koni) that could be adjusted to be even softer than stock, almost Grand Marquis like. It would be great if this was possible for the Edge.

 

Macbwt: Is changing the front lower control arm a good idea or was that done just because it came with the ball joint?

 

Wheel bearing: Macbwt: does the wheel bearing change pitch change pitch because youre momentarily reducing the weight on one tire when changing lanes? It seems like the noise is coming from the rear. A colleague has an automotive press in his garage (I was there when he recently used it to reassemble a manual transmission for his old 4Runner), is it possible to change a wheel bearing on ones own using just a press? Can I jack the car up using the front lower radiator core support or rear tow hook to get one entire end of the car in the air, I assume this will make it much easier to push/pull or rotate the tires to get a feel for play/movement in suspension components.

 

PTU: This is what I dread being the most. The staining/wetness on the bottom of the car doesnt appear to be brown. Are there any good picture tutorials on how to check or refill the PTU? Looking under the car it looks like the exhaust will make working on the PTU difficult.

 

I really like the EDGE and was considering buying another one but these recent issues are making my wife question that idea. Im excited because fixing these problems would really help assuage her fears.

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

How many miles on your Edge?

 

Oil: Now that you have noticed the issue, it is better to err on the side of caution and switch to the High Mileage oil as soon as posible. Not knowing the cause, this is cheap insurance. Don't want it to become a full-on gusher by waiting 7500 miles, because at that point it WILL get expensive.

 

Spark plugs: Yes, the intake manifold has to be removed. You will need a basic tool set, an extension bar, a torque wrench, etc. as outlined in this thread:

http://www.fordedgeforum.com/topic/8724-sparkplug-replacement-job-info-with-photos/

mac also has a video or two on this process on his channel. Takes 1-2 hours the first time. Very easy, just take your time!

 

PCV valve: sits atop the rear (firewall side) valve cover. If you don't have a 2007 Edge, there is only one type of valve to replace. Mine is a 2007 and is an electrically heated valve. In any PCV system, there are two pieces, a fresh air intake (the hose you see coming out of the front valve cover, next to the engine fill cap), and the "engine fumes" return (through the PCV valve on the rear valve cover on the Edge). You DO have to take the intake manifold off first, that is why spark plugs & PCV go together.

 

PTU: Do you have a garage or a driveway where you can see any leaks from the PTU? You'd definitely need to look closely to see if there are any leaks from the trans-PTU seal or from the PTU vent itself. PTU fluid smells nasty when new, and even worse as it gets used up, so if you see a smear on the PTU (passenger side of the Edge), it's worth the finger touch&smell test.

 

Find a reputable repair shop to look over your suspension/steering components (repairpal, yelp, friends/family). They may even do it for free, and let you know what needs to be fixed when. With any luck, an alignment would be all that's needed.

Edited July 27, 2015 by WWWPerfA_ZN0W

[macbwt]

DunePearlEdge

I would recommend watching my videos and you will gain a much better understanding of what you need to have for tools and what you need to do. I also just recently changed the plugs and made a three part series on the plug change and show what needs to be accomplished. You sound as if you have the above beginner knowledge of mechanics and can accomplish these tasks.

 

Note the first time you do the plugs will be the most difficult. Once you do it, it is like riding a bike you never forget.

 

I do not have an AWD but yes a press will be needed.

 

Ball joints - I changed out the whole LCA just because it was almost as much work to change out the and press out the Ball Joint. Check out my LCA review and also the installation video and you will understand better.

 

Just tell your wife that a 2008 ford edge made it to 285K miles and was running great (even with leaks) right up until it was traded in.

 

If you noticed though I am rather partial to the 2011 model with FWD. You are from Chicago and I bet a FWD with Snow tires would be just about as good as a AWD with all weather tires and the FWD would be less expensive to maintain.

[DunePearlEdge]

Thank you WWWPerfA_ZN0W and macbwt.

WWWPerfA_ZN0W: My Edge is a 2007 with 98K miles (we purchased it at 51K miles 4 years ago) and the only maintenance I have ever done is brakes and oil. I'll try the spark plugs/PCV this weekend. Is there any brand/type of spark plug that is recommended by the wise folks here?

I normally park in my asphalt driveway in the same space so Ill look for a leak on the surface although it will be hard against the dark blue/black asphalt. Underneath the car I see a lot of dripping from the shiny foil heatshield foam pad in the driveshaft tunnel area, I assume all this water is from the A/C system.

Macbwt: that is very high mileage, which is reassuring. Did you ever have any major failures during that time or just routine maintenance? If we could do it again I too wish we had bought an FWD model for better mpg, and no PTU headaches. To be honest, I cant tell when AWD is active and I wonder if it ever turns it on at all. I notice you live in Davenport which I assume is snowy, do you change to winter tires each winter and do you have keep them on a second set of wheels?

As these cars age are alignments are needed more frequently? I ask because some alignment shops offer unlimited alignments for three years for a little more money than a one-time only alignment.

Edited July 27, 2015 by DunePearlEdge

[macbwt]

I think if you read this posting on the life of the 2008 Ford Edge (Orange Crush) you will gain a lot of answers to your questions. By the way get that transmission fluid changed ASAP!!

http://www.fordedgeforum.com/topic/14129-what-to-expect-at-200000-miles/

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

I sure hope you have done air filter too, else you might find gummy bears and french fries and all that jammed up in there!!!

 

The Motorcraft plugs do just fine, and they are relatively inexpensive to boot, no mention of any problems with them. So I'd stick to that (SP411). They will likely be gapped close to what they should be (0.054-0.057), so you can check with a spark plug gap gauge, being careful not to be hard with the center electrode on the spark plug. Not worth re-gapping if under 0.060.

http://www.amazon.com/K-Tool-International-KTI73701-Spark-Gauge/dp/B000J544IU/

I prefer "feeler" gauges, but haven't found one for our application that I like.

 

As for the PCV valve, I had pre-ordered both a heated EV261 and a non-heated EV257 valve because I did not know which one I had. If you order from RockAuto, you can return the one you don't use pretty easily.

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframecatalog.php?carcode=1434490&parttype=5052

5% discount when checking out at RockAuto with codes found here:

http://www.shoforum.com/index.php?threads/rock-auto-discount-code.55138/page-17

3380536525584995
This discount code expires on September 20, 2015 so don't wait!

 

As for alignments, look first for a good shop, those 3year guarantees don't mean much if they don't have competent personnel or uptodate machinery in the first place. Should cost right around $90 for a 4wheel alignment.

Edited July 27, 2015 by WWWPerfA_ZN0W

[DunePearlEdge]

Thanks again guys.

 

I should clarify; I do change the filter about once a year and when I got the car I did take it in for the automatic transmission output shaft TSB and they changed the auto trans fluid then so it's about 45K old.

 

Having never purchased spark plugs before I didn't know they come closed, I guess you use the feeler gauge to push them open? I'll have to order a feeler gauge as well. Is it best to install a new PCV as opposed to cleaning out the old one? Per your reply above I'll purchase only the heated PCV (Part EV261) as my Edge is a 2007.

 

About 15 years ago when swapping the intake manifold on my civic I cleaned it out with carb cleaner. Because the Edge manifold is plastic, I assume this can't be done. Is it wise to clean the MAF sensor while doing all this work?

[macbwt]

Plugs should be pre gapped. WWW is only stating to double check them. Me I never checked them they looked uniform and I installed them, but hey that is how I roll....Watch my video on the sparkplug change on the 2011 it is virtually the same engine as your 2007 with a few minor changes. Yes you can clean the manifold with throttle body cleaner. I would not work about the MAF sensor just concentrate on the sparkplug change. You can access the MAF so easy that it is not an issue if you are having a problem. Motto is if it ain't broke don't fix it in this case of the MAF.

 

If you wanted to you could remove the PCV and hose it out really good with throttle body cleaner and reinstall it like I did in the video.

 

Note: use throttle body cleaner not carb cleaner. While you are at it this is a good time to actually clean the throttle body.

 

As far as the Gummy Bears they get into everything, just watch out for the one brandishing a french fry!!! Those you have to be careful with.

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

No carb cleaner on these engines, as mac said.

 

Plugs come pregapped, no real need to touch them other than to install. I am just obsessive lol.

 

You wont know which type pcv valve you have until you take the manifold off. I highly recommend buying both types and returning the one you don't use.

[DunePearlEdge]

Thanks again! The car also exhibits a low thumping rumbling noise when accelerating from 15-25 mph. Hopefully that's fixed by the alignment.

 

Do you guys ever jack your Edge up at the front radiator core support?

Edited July 28, 2015 by DunePearlEdge

[macbwt]

I would not recommend using the radiator point to lift the Edge. Use the jack/lift points.

[DunePearlEdge]

Pictures fixed and moved to later post

Edited July 28, 2015 by DunePearlEdge

[DunePearlEdge]

By the way, macbwt, you make some damn good instructional videos!

[DunePearlEdge]

Of the 4 PCV parts you've listed I assume I only have to order the 2 Motorcraft Parts.

 

When I hit bumps the front driver wheel will sometimes create a shudder. I removed the wheel and the tie-rod and ball joints look okay. I did notice a leak where the drive side axle inserts into the transmission (see first picture). Could this be the source of the shudder sound whenever hitting a bump?

 

Additionally part of the steering rack looks wet (second picture) but I assume this is from the oil leak mentioned earlier. Finally, I noticed the tires have a rib that extends sideways between the grooves (third picture). The tire appears to have some life left but where this rib occurs the depth is very little. Do most tires have this ribbing? Is it time to replace the tires?

Edited July 28, 2015 by DunePearlEdge

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

Look for part numbers EV257 and EV261. Both are Motorcraft parts. Only these 2 need to be ordered.

 

Not sure on the axle leak, possibly a seal issue, possibly an axle issue. That is, the rubber seal could be bad, OR the metal of the axle shaft could be pitted or scored, causing the seal to fail.

 

I see cracking in the nontread area of the tire, plus the whitish pastches look like the belts are starting to get exposed, but IDK. Are these tires original to the vehicle? Is there low tread depth remaining? If so, time to look for replacements.

[macbwt]

Just a note on the leaks. I know this will be hard to do, but do not concentrate on them. Until you are having to replace fluids due to the leaks the repair costs will far outweigh the benefit. My Orange Crush leaked, had leaks and seeped and I never had to add fluid until the power steering hose failed. Same with the axle seal and oil main seal. I recommend working on your maintenance items, changing fluids, spark plugs and getting the struts replaced. Then re-evaluate and keep driving.

[DunePearlEdge]

WWWPerfA_ZNOW: Thanks, that's what I'll order. We bought the car used at 51K, now it's at 98K, do tires last that long? There is cracking in the non-tread area. I don't know how to tell if there is low tread depth, do tires come with any sort of depth markings on them? I couldn't find one.

 

macbwt: Will do, I plan to do the spark plugs this weekend. I notice the shuddering in the drivetrain is getting worse quickly and was trying to determine the culprit.

 

 

When shops sell new tires I know it typically includes mounting and balancing. Does it also typically include a realignment?