Double Edged

[macbwt]

Temp was about 40 degrees. Battery was down to 12.02 volts on the second test and CCA was down. Registered weak. Watch this next video as I check both Edge's and Lullubelle is sick. Not sure what is going on. I plan on upgrading to a 65 series battery and then checking the system again hoping it is the battery. If not I have an electrical/charging issue which is strange because the system test put the voltage out that I thought would be normal. 14 or so volts.

[macbwt]

Ok this is a test on Blueberry first then a follow up on Lullubelle. What may be the issue I do not know, but will start with a new battery since this one is bad or going bad.

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

Cool to see MG back in action Could be the plates are shorting internally on Lullubelle's battery. There have been some duds lately even with the Tough Max series. Will definitely need a BMS reset after a swapout.

[macbwt]

do I need a scan tool to reset the Battery Management system or is there a another way to do this?

Cool to see MG back in action Could be the plates are shorting internally on Lullubelle's battery. There have been some duds lately even with the Tough Max series. Will definitely need a BMS reset after a swapout.

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

Supposedly it's a dealer-only (IDS-only, actually) to reset the BMS. But there may be a way around it if you charge the battery and let the vehicle sit undisturbed for 8 hours (?) ... Don't know how that would play with a new battery.

 

This is how the factory manual explains it:

Battery Management System

Load Shed Strategy

NOTICE: When any vehicle module is being programmed, connect an external battery charger to make sure that the module programming is completed without the interruption due to the load shedding feature becoming active. The external battery charger must maintain a system voltage above 13 volts. This can require a charger setting higher than the lowest charge setting. The external battery charger negative connection must be made to an engine or vehicle chassis ground and not the negative battery terminal. If the connection is to the negative battery terminal, load shedding cannot be prevented from being invoked and module programming may be corrupted. After charging has begun, start the engine to clear any load shed states and then turn the engine off and proceed with programming.

NOTE: To maintain correct operation of the load shed, any electrical devices or equipment must be grounded to the chassis ground and not the negative battery terminal. A connection to the negative battery terminal can cause an inaccurate measurement of the battery state of charge and can cause incorrect load shed system operation.

This vehicle is equipped with a load shed strategy. The Body Control Module (BCM) uses the battery current sensor to keep track of the battery state of charge. The battery current sensor is a Hall-effect sensor attached to the battery ground cable. On vehicles equipped with Intelligent Access (IA), the ignition state can also change.

Engine Off Load Shed

The BCM uses the battery current sensor to keep track of the battery state of charge. The battery current sensor is a Hall-effect sensor attached to the battery ground cable. When the engine is off, and the BCM determines the battery state of charge is below 40%, 10% of the charge has been drained or 45 minutes have elapsed, a load shed message is sent over the Controller Area Network (CAN). This message turns off the audio system to save the remaining battery charge. Under this condition, a message may be displayed on the IPC or center stack display to alert the driver that battery protection actions are active.

When charging the vehicle battery by connecting the charger to the negative battery terminal is necessary , such as when using a combination battery charger and battery tester/analyzer, like the GR 1 190 V3.0 Intelligent Diagnostic Charger, the BCM will not immediately update the battery state of charge. In this instance, after charging, you must CARRY OUT the Battery Monitoring System (BMS) Reset using the scan tool. This reset is needed for proper engine off load shedding and to prevent invoking of engine off load shedding earlier than normal.

NOTE: If the reset is not carried out, when the battery is charged by connecting the charger to the negative battery terminal, it takes approximately 8 hours for the BCM to learn the new battery state of charge. During this 8 hour period, the vehicle must be undisturbed, with no doors opened or keyless entry button presses. If the vehicle is used before the BCM is allowed to learn the new battery state of charge, engine off load shedding can still occur and a message may be displayed.

When charging the vehicle battery by connecting the charger to engine or chassis ground , the negative charger clamp must be connected to an unpainted chassis surface or a solid engine component such as a generator mount or engine lifting eye. In this instance, after charging, the BMS reset is not required if the ignition was ON during charging by above method. Through this method of charging, the BCM updates the battery state of charge during the charging process. If the ignition was OFF during charging by above method, a BMS reset may be required since the BCM does not update battery state of charge with ignition key OFF unless the vehicle is parked undisturbed for 8 hours.

Vehicles without Intelligent Access (IA)

Load shed only occurs when the engine is not running, and the ignition is in the ACC, RUN or delayed accessory position. To clear the load shed state, restart the engine. If load shed occurs, the audio system turns off.

If a fault occurs with the battery current sensor or circuit(s), the only load shed strategy is a 45 minute timer. After 45 minutes have elapsed, the audio system turns off. To clear the load shed state, restart the engine.

Vehicles with Intelligent Access (IA)

Load shed only occurs when the engine is not running, and the ignition is in the ACC, RUN or delayed accessory mode. To clear the load shed state, restart the engine. If the ignition is in RUN and load shed occurs, the audio system turns off and the ignition remains in RUN. If the ignition is in ACC and load shed occurs, the audio system mutes for 1 minute then the ignition mode changes to OFF. For example, if equipped, the memory seats move to the easy exit position and the dome light may illuminate.

If a fault occurs with the battery current sensor or circuits, the only load shed strategy is a 45 minute timer. After 45 minutes have elapsed, the audio system turns off. To clear the load shed state, restart the engine.

Generator Current Sensor

The generator current sensor is attached to the generator B+ cable. The PCM supplies a 5-volt reference and ground to the generator current sensor. The generator current sensor is a Hall-effect sensor that supplies an analog feedback signal to the PCM.

Battery Current Sensor

The battery current sensor is attached to the negative battery cable. The BCM supplies a 5-volt reference and ground to the battery current sensor. The battery current sensor is a Hall-effect sensor that supplies a Pulse-Width Modulation (PWM) feedback signal to the BCM .

 

As far as having the dealer do it, this is what a post on an F150 site has to say:

 

Perfroming a BMS reset will reset the battery SOC to a default of 85%- regardless of its true state of charge and reset the SOC drain timers. This should get you out of load shed. The following is the procedure using the Diagnostic Engineering tool.

BMS reset procedure with Ford "Diagnostic Engineering Tool":
Go to Gen Diagnostics and select Module ID to 726 (BCM)
Select Service 0X10 and extendedDiagnosticSession, and press "Send Message" button
Select Service 0X31
Check "User Defined" box, and type in "201A"
Press "Send Message" button

For all future reference, do not connect the negative charge lead to the negative battery post. Connect it to another ground attachment point on the truck. That way, the re-charge will be measured by the BMS hall sensor (very near the negative battery post) and will correctly re-adjust the battery SOC

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

Also found this interesting little blurb in the owner's manual:

 

Electrical accessory installation
To ensure proper operation of the BMS, any electrical devices that are
added to the vehicle should not have their ground connection made
directly at the negative battery post. A connection at the negative
battery post can cause inaccurate measurements of the battery condition
and potential incorrect system operation.

 

Note: Electrical or electronic accessories added to the vehicle may
adversely affect battery performance and durability and may also affect
the performance of other electrical systems in the vehicle.

 

A link to battery performance/testing:

http://www.therangerstation.com/Magazine/Fall2008/truck_batteries.htm

 

Also:

http://www.linnbenton.edu/auto/perform/no_start.html

Edited February 1, 2016 by WWWPerfA_ZN0W

[macbwt]

I only have 12v plug in devices that I unplug. Although I am guilty of leaving them running on occasion and a couple of times until the battery was dead. This most likely did not help the MC battery. I am seriously thinking AGM deep cycle as an alternative. Just have to locate one that will fit. AGM should be able to help with the accessory drain the Ford Edge is constantly placing the batteries under.

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

Look up NAPAonline.com to see what batteries will fit the Edge. They list "normal" SLA as well as AGM & Optima batteries when available. With Optima, look for the right "size" battery by checking physical dimensions and correct placement of the +/- posts. On the '07, the terminals are reversed, and it's hard to find replacements that will work (cables are not long enough to flip).

 

You can also look for Motorcraft Tough Max BXT65-850 batteries that have 850 CCAs (!). Interstate offers this:

http://www.atbatt.com/interstate-mega-tron-plus-mtp-65-automotive-battery-850-cca.asp

[macbwt]

Does it make a difference if I replace the wet cell 54 with an AGM 650CCA w/Power Code Remote Start Car and Truck platinum AGM battery?

My theory on the AGM is it 1) is a better battery 2) is a deep cycle hybrid battery 3) want more CCA's The deep cycle IMO will help keep the electrical draw demand under control since I am seeing the conventional batteries married to the Edge are not performing and may be the reason for the Battery Saver System being activated. I may be wrong, but a lot of information is starting to point to this just due to the heavy technology demands now being placed on the electrical system. If Ford were smart they would start upgrading the battery they place in the Edge.

 

 

https://www.batteriesplus.com/battery/car-and-truck/ford/edge/2011/v6-3.7l-650cca-w_power-code-remote-start/sli65agm

[macbwt]

SOLAR replied to my question and ultimately watched my video and they believe the voltage regulator in my Edge is faulty. They provided me with the following steps to help confirm this diagnosis.

Dear Mr. Trammell,

 

Thank you for your inquiry about the BA7 and how it can help you properly troubleshoot your vehicle’s starting system. Your specific question and video led us to prepare a more thorough answer than; “it looks like you have a bad charging system component.”

 

Let me explain based on your video, and based on our BA7 manual which you can get by going to: http://www.cloreautomotive.com/uploaded_files/sku/431_841-029-000.pdf

 

First, when you look through your video, notice how stable the voltage output is on the first vehicle. It is right around 14.2 volts DC with very little movement up or down.

 

Second, if you look at the second vehicle notice how the voltage is drifting up from 14.44 over 14.6 volts. Also you point out correctly that the high voltage RED LED comes on (flickers) so it means the tester is catching a high voltage condition: Spikes from the alternator.

 

Taking that erratic jump up in voltage, we lean towards a voltage regulator issue; but there are a few more tests to narrow that down.

 

Let me take you to the manual to page 6 where it says: System Testing: Starting and Charging System Tests (Model No. BA7 Only), please read 1 – 9, but on #10 it starts with the following and I’m going to add a bit to what is in the manual.

 

1) Run up the engine to 1200 ~ 1500 rpm. Read the voltage while the car is running.

a. If the volts reading is between 13.4 volts and 14.6 volts

= Charging system ok.

Green LED lights.

b. If the volts reading is greater than 14.6 volts

= Charging voltage high.

Red LED lights.

Check regulator.

c. If the volts reading is less than13.4 volts.

= Charging voltage low.

Yellow LED lights.

Check connections, wiring and alternator.

 

Notice you are getting the Red LED that flashes on and goes off. This points to high voltage spikes of sufficient duration to trigger the LED, but then as the voltage returns it goes off.

 

Now let me help you use the full capability of the BA7 by doing a follow up test. Let’s put a constant load on the charging system. That starts in step 11 in the instructions for testing the charging system. I’ll add a bit to what is in the manual, but keep in mind the manual is very accurate in what it is telling you. I’m using the numbers only because your video gave us a chance to see and I’d like to help you feel more comfortable with the BA7.

 

2. Following the charging system at idle, continue the charging system test with accessory loads. Turn on the blower to high (heat), high beam headlights, and rear defogger. Do not use cyclical loads such as air conditioning or windshield wipers.

a. If the volts reading is between 13.4 volts and 14.6 volts

= Charging system ok.

Green LED lights.

b. If the volts reading is greater than 14.6 volts

= Charging voltage high.

Red LED lights.

Check regulator.

c. If the volts reading is less than13.4 volts.

= Charging voltage low.

Yellow LED lights.

Check connections, wiring and alternator.

 

Although you did not run this test, I believe you’ll find that the Red LED is flashing, and you’ll find again that the BA7 is calling into question the maximum voltage and likely pointing to the regulator.

 

Please let me know if this has fully answered your question, and thanks for the video, it helped us see what you were seeing.

 

And again, we wish to thank you with your informatively clear videos.

 

Sincerely,

 

Cliff Botham

Technical Service Representative

techservice@cloreautomotive.com

800-321-2928 option #2 Technical Service

913-310-1050 option #2 Technical Service

[macbwt]

Voltage regulators are not available as a part. I have determined the entire alternator must be replaced.

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

Your "legend" status is growing by leaps & bounds! First, Moog, now Solar

[macbwt]

Maybe Solar will send me some swag LOL Did a video check and there are a lot of sites linking my videos now. It was crazy as the search came up with 3 pages of links to my videos that other sites have placed them on. The best thing is I do enjoy doing this. Pay sucks, but hey it is a hobby.

 

 

Your "legend" status is growing by leaps & bounds! First, Moog, now Solar

Edited February 3, 2016 by macbwt

[macbwt]

It is confirmed the voltage regulator has or is failing, but with one strange caveat to the story. The CEL does not show any problems. Nothing is noted and or recorded as a failure in the diagnostics. This leads me to believe I have have found an issue that is not being addressed by Ford or discovered by mechanics and is just being written off as a bad battery or the Ford Edge electronics are causing the drain. So Lullubelle is getting a new alternator and new battery because the failed voltage regulator has caused the battery to fail due to lack of charge and draining increasing causing the battery to sulfate at an accelerated rate which now as of the most recent test with a hot battery is only reading 320 CCA's for the 540 CCA rated 54 series battery. So far this repair conservatively will cost me about 600 dollars maybe more depending on shop time and fees. Parts 200 plus for alternator (Motorcraft) battery AGM 250.00 plus shop time 100 dollars more or less. Not sure what the labor at a shop would be but I bet the price would be more.

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

Just glad that the problem is not with the cabling, as it would cost you less to use your arm and leg as replacements than the Ford parts Which brand AGM did you go with?

[macbwt]

I have not decided on the brand of AGM I will purchase yet I am seriously considering this one

Odyssey 65-PC1750T Automotive and LTV Battery

 

I have decided on the Motorcraft alternator, just want to stay close to OEM on this one. Do not like surprises.

This is the video confirmation of the initial SOLAR BA7 tester. Glad I bought it The SOLAR BA7 is a great little device that is sure to be useful in the future.

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

The Odyssey is a bit on the bulky side, but otherwise they are pretty good batteries. Don't like Interstate or Diehard?

 

Hopefully you will never need to this:

Edited February 7, 2016 by WWWPerfA_ZN0W

[macbwt]

I have looked around and the interstate is equivalent is about 10-15 dollars more than the Odyssey. http://www.interstatebatteries.com/p/automotive-truck/mt7-65-ford-econoline-2014-standard-battery-oem-cca-650-v8-4-6l?dsNav=N~21-2147384906

 

I will of course have to measure to make sure the Odyssey will fit, but the match specs state it does.

Edited February 7, 2016 by macbwt

[macbwt]

I was thinking about the electrical and alternator and I overlooked a symptom. All my devices I plugged into the 12v power were not charging but remaining at their level but never actually charging and if they did they gained very little charge. Items were cell phone, Ipad, GPS, Dashcams etc. So keep this in mind if you are having charging issues and never seem to charge anything this could mean your alternator is not working.

[macbwt]

I have found the Motorcraft new alternator http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=1109652&cc=1446671&jsn=509at rock auto. There pricing includes a 75 core charge. MOTORCRAFT GL928 alternator Rockauto seems to have the best price when compared to Amazon and Ebay.

Edited February 8, 2016 by macbwt

[macbwt]

Just a note to thank all those who have tuned into MACTFORDEDGE youtube channel. I have reached and exceeded over 500,000 minutes viewed in just a little over a year.

 

Another video showing how to remove and install a new alternator will be forth coming. Should be on of the biggest projects I have done so far.

[macbwt]

Enjoy this video as I am in the DOG HOUSE outside due to MOMOSHA not approving of my washing that nasty air filter in her bathroom. LOL But honey it is for the youtube channel.....she was not happy so please send blankets.........

 

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

Just wait till you use the oven to open up headlamps or the dishwasher to clean out the intake manifold

[macbwt]

You are just trying to get me into more trouble. But if I did it while she was gone........?????

Just wait till you use the oven to open up headlamps or the dishwasher to clean out the intake manifold

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

I see a HOWTO video on building a bigger, better doghouse in your not-too-distant future, mac ... LOL! BTW, that'll be 10 bucks for the palm reading.