Direct Injection and Carbon Buildup

[tamugrad2013]

I have looked online and I am having issues finding information about carbon buildup in the current 2.0L Ecoboost engine. First off I want to avoid any issues in the future and I feel like sitting at ~35,000 miles it may be around the time to do some routine maintenance to avoid buildup. I am trying to find information or a place here locally in Odessa, TX thatch do the service or if I should even worry about it right now. Someone mentioned looking at BG's online to find a place, but I can't seem to figure out what website it is. If someone could post a link and some insight on to these DI engines on the ford ecoboosts.

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

A quick search on the interwebz pulled up this vid:

 

Here's the DI cleaner from BG:

https://www.bgprod.com/catalog/gasoline-fuel-system/bg-gasoline-direct-injection-cleaner/

 

Find a shop that provides the service:

http://www.bgfindashop.com/

 

This is a good interval to get the service done. The caveat is to see if you have TOO much carbon buildup to do it safely already, due to a poorly designed PCV system. That is where the shop should give you guidance. To be honest, a boroscopic examination of the valves should be conducted first.

Edited February 18, 2015 by WWWPerfA_ZN0W

[tamugrad2013]

Thank you very much. I believe you were the person who suggested BG's but I couldn't find which BG you meant. Thanks a million.

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

Sure thing, good luck, let us know what you decide

[LorenAZ]

I just watched the BG's top end cleaning. You can do the same thing yourself with Sea Foam Top End Cleaner and Lube available at Amazon and other automotive dealers. Here 's a video from Chris Fix on YouTube that shows you how to do it.

 

 

I have not done this to my 2012 Edge 2.0L EcoBoost as I just purchased it last week. But it is on the list.

 

Check out Chris's other videos as he has a lot of good information.

 

You might also check out the use of an Oil Catch Can. We are discussing this topic on another thread on this forum. It will help eliminate the recycling of oil fumes coming through the PCV to the air intake. We're still trying to find a source for the kit and the installation.

 

 

Hope this helps,

Loren

Edited February 15, 2017 by LorenAZ

[chefduane]

I Sea Foamed my '98 Explorer at about 200k. Used the brake vacuum method. Can't really say that it did any good (or bad, for that matter) but it did REALLY smoke out the neighborhood. If you feel that it might help, I'd say go for it but it probably would just be the placebo effect. I've heard of the issues with carbon build up in the EB 2.0's - I think there are a few utoob vids on it if you take the time to search. Don't know if Ford has officially addressed the issue tho.

[LorenAZ]

The carbon build up in the engine seems to be located mostly on cylinders 2 and 3 as the return pipe from the PCV is right in the middle of the air intake. Because this engine is a direct injection, no fuel is passing over the intake valve. In a multi-port fuel injected engine, fuel passing over the valve helps keep the valve cooler and cleaner.

In the 2.0 L EB motor the incoming air, most likely contains oil fumes from the PCV because of the higher pressure from the turbo.

That's why we have been looking for an oil catch can kit, which isolates the oil fumes between the PCV and the air intake, so the air is cleaner, helping to reduce the carbon buildup on the back side of the intake valve.

So the only way to clean the valve is to manually clean them, or do a chemical clean like the BG's commercial application or one similar to the Sea Foam method. I know Amsoil make a product for this purpose and probably other companies as well. I was wondering if the chemical would clean the exhaust and turbo chambers too? Probably some cleaning I would imagine.

I have not done the chemical clean to my 2012 Edge 2.0 L EB yet, as I just purchased it, but it is on the list, as well as the OCC install.

 

Hope this helps,

LorenAZ

[Beezz]

You do risk damaging your turbos if you put in too much cleaner, they aren't meant to ingest that much soot and flammable liquid/vapour. A manual cleaning will be the safest but most time consuming way to tackle the buildup. I have heard that most of the time a dealership has to fix misfiring due to carbon buildup they manually clean everything.

[KLinNBC]

So how does one manually clean the intake valves? Doesn't that require cam and//or head removal?

Edited February 17, 2017 by KLinNBC

[LorenAZ]

Too much soot and misfiring are things I'm trying to avoid. I don't want to be too aggressive about cleaning the engine. I have 52K on my 2012 and I don't know if the previous owner did anything to the motor to keep it clean.

I plan to use some Sea Foam gas additive once every 3-4 tanks of fuel to see if that makes a difference.

I'm still looking for an OCC.

[lildisco]

The teamrxp.com design is one of the best out there as it pretty much is catching things when it's boosting or in vacuum,hence the 3 ports on the can. Most catch cans go between the intake manifold & the PCV & only catches stuff when a vacuum is present, this catches more because of its design.

[Beezz]

Walnut shell blasting is the way some pros do it, others might just scrape off the buildup with small tools and then vacuum the soot out. Intake manifold has to come off for sure to have enough access to the intake tract and valves.

 

There is a post of someone installing a catch can on the 2.0 very recently !

[lildisco]

There is a post of someone installing a catch can on the 2.0 very recently !

*cough* ORLY? *cough*

 

;)

Edited February 18, 2017 by lildisco

[enigma-2]

Due to the limited mounting space available on the Edge & MKX's, I was wondering if it were possible if a catch can couldn't be mounted in a remote location and have the drain extended to the underside of the engine compartment? After all, you could then drain it at the same time as the oil drain.

[lildisco]

Extra long hoses might decrease the efficiency of the catch can. The the fluid/gases have much longer to travel to reach the catch can.

 

There is space on the top passenger side rear of the engine, but residential fluid tends to go down with gravity, so we decided to mount it on the frame rail. Lower than the intake & PCV system. There is several installs that show the catch can mounted off the passenger side motor mount, but the bracket that came with my kit was much smaller. You still have to remove the bottom engine cover to drain the catch can, but you should be draining it every oil change anyways.

 

We have nearly 100 miles on the car since the catch can install, so i was going to put it up on ramps & drain the can to see what has been caught. It hasn't been real cold, maybe in the 20's, since we installed it and this weekend it's supposed to be in the 50's - 60's. Should be interesting to see what, it anything has been caught. I also did an oil change a 100 miles or so before the catch can was installed, so that 'may' effect what was caught as the oil has been diluted yet.

[enigma-2]

Extra long hoses might decrease the efficiency of the catch can. The the fluid/gases have much longer to travel to reach the catch can.

Sorry, I didn't make myself clear. I meant to mount the resovior in the back of the engine compartment and attach a drain connection (perhaps copper tube) so that 'it' extended down to below the engine.

The end of the pipe plugged, but accessible, when doing an oil chainge.

Point I was so poorly attempting to make was, mounting the can at the back of the engine would make accessing it difficult otherwise.

But extending the drain connection to under the engine made draining it readily accessible and it no longer mattered where the actual can was mounted.

[lildisco]

We have nearly 100 miles on the car since the catch can install, so i was going to put it up on ramps & drain the can to see what has been caught. It hasn't been real cold, maybe in the 20's, since we installed it and this weekend it's supposed to be in the 50's - 60's. Should be interesting to see what, it anything has been caught. I also did an oil change a 100 miles or so before the catch can was installed, so that 'may' effect what was caught as the oil has been diluted yet.

About 3 or 4 drops of light brown liquid came out. Kinda looked like fresh oil. I wasn't expecting much as everything is still settling in (oil/stuff in the tubes making their way to the catch can). But, HEY, that's 3 or 4 drops not making back into the intake.

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

Not bad! The colder the location of the catchcan, the more condensate you will catch. It's nice in the XSport, where it can be fender mounted, so the temps are ambient essentially.

[junehhan]

Guys, DO NOT use any induction service or spray anything into the intake. Ford came out with a bulletin to dealers a while back saying exactly that. I will take the word of Ford engineers before I will take the word of a company that makes their living selling these things which includes many dealers who are their clients.

 

The cliff notes version was that you can destroy your turbos by using these induction type services. There are 3 ways that you can destroy your turbos. The first is that it can blow chunks of carbon loose which goes through the engine and out into the turbos which destroys the turbine blades. The second is that these chemicals can seep past the piston rings and get into the oil and destroy the turbo bearings. The third is that when running these services, it can cause the catalytic converter to get hot enough from running rich that it can destroy the turbos due to their proximity.

 

From what I have seen from looking at videos of the Bimmer, VW, and Audi crowd is that walnut shell blasting followed by using a solvent and sucking it out may be the best way to handle this if you develop drivability issues.

[TheWizard]

Too much soot and misfiring are things I'm trying to avoid. I don't want to be too aggressive about cleaning the engine. I have 52K on my 2012 and I don't know if the previous owner did anything to the motor to keep it clean.

I plan to use some Sea Foam gas additive once every 3-4 tanks of fuel to see if that makes a difference.

 

 

Gas tank additives won't do any good because they never get to the valves on a direct injection engine.

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

Carbon doesn't build up that quickly on the IVs, so if the induction service is done as a preventative, let's say annually or more frequently, it should not be an issue. Now if you have 30,000 miles already and its been 3 years, for example, definitely, I would not recommend induction services, but rather media blasting. The decision to do either should be preceded by a visual inspection of the valves.

 

And as far as the chemicals seeping past the turbo rings, sure, it could happen. But as with any service, engine flush, seafoam intake cleaning, etc. it is always a good idea to change the oil within 500 miles or less of the service. So time the service for just before your OC, and you should be golden.

[enigma-2]

Here's a good discussion which covers all aspects of how the deposits form and ard removed: http://www.aa1car.com/library/intake_valve_deposits_gdi_engines.htm

 

(Does not address turbos however).

[tamugrad2013]

Sorry to dredge up an old topic, but I did have this done with about 46,000 miles and I had no detrimental effects as far as I could tell. Now I did have to have the Turbo replaced at 80,000 miles although I kind of don't now why to be honest because it was running just fine before the dealer had it for transmission issues. I highly doubt a service done at 46,000 miles would cause the turbo the fail after 34,000 additional miles were put on it. Also it seems strange that a service bulletin was put out for this to ford on not having it done, but they still do it at their service lanes and quick lanes. It seems like that would make them highly culpable if and when a turbo failed shortly after service.

[MaX83_ZA]

Turbo souldnt be affected by carbon build up.

[Snox801]

The turbos are not affected by the carbon on the valves they are affected during the cleaning. When that carbon breaks free and leaves the exhaust its a solid piece that goes through the turbine. Even liquid can have bad effects on turbos. That being said I have more than one boost with over 180,000 with no cleaning and they are fine. Even livernois said they dont run into the carbon issue that people keep saying is so bad. On my new stuff they all get meth injection so its a none issue. But why dont some of you look at startified aux fueling. They have a simple single port spacer that is plug and play. That fuel will wash the valves. It also gives you the ability to run e85. It does requires a tune but even adding both the cost together its cheaper than a Manuel cleaning service. Plus way more power and cheaper fuel. Even a catch can or spray cleaner voids warranty so thats a non issue either way.