briandye Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) 2009 AWD Edge As I finally get this damn thing back on the road, I drive it to work for the first time in a month, (Drove it down the highway a few times, along with across town and back multiple times before this issue), and I noticed the cabin was getting cold. Look at my temp gauge and its all the way to the right, (You'd think there would be a chime/warning light or something to get my attention to that, but there wasn't) and the air from the vents wasn't warm anymore. I pull over, and steam is pouring out from under the hood. (Specifically the coolant tank cap). About 10-15 minutes after standing out in the -30 temp with cars flying by, it was back down to a little below halfway on the temp gauge. Started it up, still no heat but odd click/thump noises kind of towards the glovebox area, drove about a mile and the temp started to rise. Repeated this process (Heat off though, no more weird noises) until I could limp it into my friends apartment complex, and thankfully he was awake (5am) to give me a ride home. What could cause this? He thinks water pump just from what I said, but he said they usually make an awful sound when they die, which I didn't have. I was thinking stuck-closed thermostat maybe? More info: When I would stop and let it cool down, with the cap off, the tank would be very high when I stopped. By the time the steam slowed down, the tank would be almost empty. When I would stop, the upper hose by the radiator was rock hard with pressure, and when the steam would stop and coolant would go back down, the hose was pliable as normal. (Well, normal as in able to be squeezed like I thought they should usually be?) I flushed/changed my coolant about 4 (+/-) months back, and haven't had a single issue until now. Edited February 16, 2015 by briandye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briandye Posted February 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 After some reading on here, I really really really pray that its not the water pump...I will never buy another Ford product in my life if thats the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWPerfA_ZN0W Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Coolant level checks out OK? Radiator fans running normally? I would check those 2 things first. Did you disconnect any electrical connections in prior repairs and perhaps forget to reconnect? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWizard Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) A stuck closed theromstat can certainly cause overheating but you would not experience the lack of heating in the cabin because the water circulating through the heater core would be very hot. In fact, that's an old trick for helping to limp home with a stuck thermostat - turn up the heat full blast even if it's mid-summer. The heater core acts as a small radiator and helps you get farther before it inevitably overheats. I suspect your friend is correct - the water pump is the most common cause that fits the symptoms you describe. The coolant is overheating because it isn't circulating through the radiator. And you also lose interior heat because no hot coolant is circulating through the heater core. Cooling fans not running would explain the overheating but not the lack of interior heat. I'm not familiar with that model so I'm not sure how the water pump is driven. It might not be the pump itself that has failed (as in seized up). If it is belt driven, you could have a very loose or broken belt (although if it's a serpentine belt you would loose charging capability as well as cooling). If it's electric, you could have something as simple as a blown fuse or bad connection (it could also be the electric motor itself). I would say your best bet is to make sure the coolant level is topped up and limp it to the nearest mechanic you trust. It sounds like it's a little too cold outside to be working under the hood yourself. Bear in mind that it is a six year old vehicle and mechanical failures do happen with any manufactured product. Even if it is the water pump, I really don't see how that is justification for condemning Ford. Edited February 16, 2015 by TheWizard 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Don't overlook the radiator fans. Those are simple and inexpensive to replace (relatively speaking). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briandye Posted February 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 TheWizard- The water pumps on the Edge is internal, and driven by the timing chain... As for the fans, they were spinning faster than they ever have before, I could hear them over the engine before Id shut it off. Coolant is definitely low right now, but I don't suspect that to be the culprit. Seems like there's a stoppage somewhere. Hopefully I'm wrong. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWizard Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 TheWizard- The water pumps on the Edge is internal, and driven by the timing chain... Well, in that case I would say it's safe to assume that it's not a broken timing chain. Normally I would say that failure of a chain driven pump would make lots of noise as your friend said but I suppose a catostrophic failure of the pump gear might have made a one time noise at the time of the failure and then just be sitting there since then. I can also see how that would be an expensive repair if it is indeed what happened. Sometimes I miss the old days when many of these types of repairs could be done in the driveway for minimal cost. Water pump, gasket and hose clamps could be picked up at the local parts store and replaced in an hour or two with basic hand tools. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briandye Posted February 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 You and be both. I was pretty happy when I went online and saw a new water pump is around $60. Then I did some googling and saw a average estimate of $800-$1100 for labor. Then dug some more to find out why, and of course what a wonderful design. Internal. Driven by timing chain. Awesome. I am so tapped out from pouring money into this thing, and I still owe big time on it. I keep telling myself, as much as I love the amenities of these new cars, I need to stick with pre-2000's vehicles. Too much is controlled through the computer and too much stuff is not user serviceable anymore. I prefer todo all my own work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWPerfA_ZN0W Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Well, I think changing the TStat should still be relatively straightforward, if you want to try that first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briandye Posted February 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Yeah that'll be my first thing. I have to get the thing home first. Can't work on it in friends apartment parking lot, and don't want to since its so far below zero outside. Any suggestions there? Never had to have anything towed or anything before. It's like a 22 mile hike from his place. Now that im thinking about it, when I last had it in the garage I think 2 days ago, I noticed some steam coming out by the radiator area when I popped the hood. Thought nothing of it, assumed it was some snow or melting snow hitting the hot hoses/rad. Now I'm thinking definitely coolant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briandye Posted February 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Just read some more online and it said to squeeze the top hose, if it's at all firm, then chances are your thermostat is stuck. Thinking this could possibly be a loose hose and stuck-closed thermostat situation coincidentally at the same time. How long might I be able to drive it in this very cold weather? If I can drive it home Id much prefer todo that, than paying probably $100+ for a tow. My friend said when his water pump went out on his Jeep, he drove it about 18 miles to the mechanic and it was fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 When my 08 overheated due to the fans I had to add over a gallon of water to make it home. Also - I thought the typical failed water pump scenario included leakage so maybe it's not the water pump. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWizard Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 As long as you ensure that you aren't too low on coolant, you should be able to drive it. Just keep a close eye on the gauge and let it cool off before it gets to the point of boiling over. Also carry extra coolant with you to refill along the way as necessary. It might take a while to make the trip but there shouldn't be any damage as long as you're cautious. The worst situation is when the coolant is so low that the gauge sending unit doesn't pick up the temperature and it overheats without you knowing. I'm sure you know to be careful and not remove the radiator cap when it's that hot as the sudden release of pressure can cause a geyser that can severely scald you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briandye Posted February 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 With it being this cold outside, wouldn't it be bad to add water? Might be wrong but wouldn't I want a higher ratio of coolant vs water? My coolant was pretty pale looking this morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWizard Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 With an overheating problem, freezing is probably not a big concern until you get it somewhere and park it. However, antifreeze also raises the boiling point of the coolant as ethylene glycol has a higher boiling point and lower vapor pressure than water. The ideal percentage for freeze prevention is 50-60 percent ethylene glycol to water. For boiling protection, the ratio can be somewhat higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briandye Posted February 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Alrighty fellas I appreciate the help and info. Don't know how I'm getting back down there, might not even be able to for a day or two but I'll post back what I figure out. First will be to completely drain the coolant, (anyone know what the deal is with the gold coolant? I went out of my way to Napa to get that kind but everyone said green is fine?) Id rather not pay the premium and make the drive again for the gold if I don't have to. Also, what's the correct process of bleeding the system? I was always told just fill the resivoir til it gets to the cold fill mark, start it with the cap off and heat on high and let it run until it gets to normal operating temp. (Add coolant as needed) Is that fully correct? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWPerfA_ZN0W Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) Coolants differ in their chemistry, so using the wrong coolant will corrode your engine/radiator/pump/heater core etc. Always stick with Motorcraft specified for your make/model/model year of vehicle. I believe it is the yellow colored coolant (Motorcraft Premium Gold) for your Edge. You can use aftermarket coolant also, but it must specifically state as approved for WSS-M97B51-A1 standard. You DON'T want to run around with too little of the antifreeze in the mix, with the temperatures you guys are experiencing, and definitely not plain water (Water Wetter helps with boiling point, but not freezing point really). http://hellafunctional.com/?p=629 Draining is pretty simple. Let engine cool and turn it off; turn pressure relief cap on degas bottle (which may also be bad by the way) part way to release pressure. Then take off the cap, open radiator petcock (driver side location?) and drain. Only a partial drain will be obtained this way though. Dispose of properly. As far as refilling/bleeding, fill the degas bottle to the MAX FILL line. Tighten the cap back on. Run engine till operating temp is reached. Check coolant level. If it has dropped below the MIN FILL line, wait till engine has cooled down. Add coolant level to MAX FILL line. Repeat this process as needed. Next, start engine, heater at MAX position. Run at 2500 rpm for 10 minutes. If overheating occurs, shut off immediately. If level drops below MIN FILL line, wait till engine cools, then fill to MAX FILL again. Repeat as needed. As the manual says: WARNING: Do not open the cooling system while it is hot or the engine is running. Failure to follow these instructions can result in personal injury. Edited February 16, 2015 by WWWPerfA_ZN0W Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbwt Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 I agree on replacing the thermosate first, but you can also remove the thermostat (cold engine) then open the radiator cap. You will need to have a flashlight and then start the engine. You need to look for fluid movement (flow) if you can not detect flow then you have a water pump that has failed. I had a water pump fail on a 2002 susuki GV after only 4 years. That pump is also internal on their V6. The mechanic replaced the water pump then after 500 miles the temp gauge pegged and I lost heat (just like you) The what happend part is the impeller had seperated and then spun off the shaft enough to stop it from pumping the coolant. This ment they had to tear it down again and replace the pump. I would put money on the impeller problem. No noise and no pumping indicates the shaft and impeller are no longer working together. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ls973800 Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 I flushed/changed my coolant about 4 (+/-) months back, and haven't had a single issue until now. You mentioned this in your original post. Now the day your problem started, you said it was -30 degrees. What concentration coolant/water are you running, and did you actually check the coolant to see what temperature it protects down to? First thing I thought of was a frozen engine block because of weak coolant protection. Hope it's something simple like that, but reading the other replies regarding the water pump, that is a very likely cause also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briandye Posted February 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 To be fully honest, I don't know. We've never really had temps like this, so that never crossed my mind. I know it's definitely more coolant than water though. I'd guess about a 60:1 ratio. I just bought the gold Ford recommended stuff from Napa. They only had one kind and they were the only store that stocks it without having to order it near me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWizard Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 I hope you meant 60/40 antifreeze to water. Much more antifreeze than that and you actually start losing freeze protection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briandye Posted February 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 Yeah, whoops. Phone has a mind of its own when I'm multitasking, lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWPerfA_ZN0W Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 Android or Apple or ...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briandye Posted February 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 Apple lol it's because my work gloves hit more than I mean to press. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briandye Posted February 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 Here's the coolant I have, luckily remembered I had a jug and a half of it out in the garage still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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