twodips Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 I have a 2013 Edge Limited and the check engine light came on. Ran a diagnostic and it showed as a problem with the capless system/vapor control. I searched information on how to fix the problem and did a full cleaning of the receptacle. After four days of driving the light still has not gone out so I went to the dealer and asked about the system and warranty. Given that I've got 50k miles on this Edge I was told that there is no warranty coverage even though it IS part of the emission control system. Normally I'd agree if it was a normal gas cap but it's not as simple as that. Ford designed this system that it seems in prone to failure without an easy fix and given that it IS part of emission control it should be covered. Any suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWizard Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) The dealer is correct in their assessment of warranty coverage. With the exception of certain select parts (basically the cats and computers), the emissions system is covered for the same 36 months, 36,000 miles as the original bumper-to-bumper warranty: From the Ford Warranty Guide: The warranty coverage period for:•Passenger cars, light duty trucks (applies to vehicles up to 8,500pounds GVWR)— 8 years or 80,000 miles (whichever occurs first) for catalyticconverters, electronic engine control unit (ECU), transmission controlmodule (TCM), and any other onboard emissions diagnostic module.— 3 years or 36,000 miles (whichever occurs first) for all othercovered parts. Besides, I would not say that the capless system is "prone to failure". I have it on both the Edge and a Mustang and neither has ever caused the slightest problem. Nor have I seen any significant number of people mentioning problems in any of the Ford forums I frequent. I'm afraid this is going to be one of those customer pay repairs unless you can get the dealer to cover it under some sort of goodwill situation. Edited February 12, 2015 by TheWizard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 It doesn't matter whether you think it's part of the emissions system or not - Ford very clearly spells out (as you can see above) what is and isn't covered by the emissions warranty. Had you purchased an extended warranty it would probably be covered, but lacking that it's your responsibility. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waldo Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 The emissions control system is working properly. The emissions control system told you that you had a problem with your fuel system. The emissions warranty covers the control system, it doesn't cover the things that cause emissions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twodips Posted February 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) The dealer is correct in their assessment of warranty coverage. With the exception of certain select parts (basically the cats and computers), the emissions system is covered for the same 36 months, 36,000 miles as the original bumper-to-bumper warranty: From the Ford Warranty Guide: The warranty coverage period for: •Passenger cars, light duty trucks (applies to vehicles up to 8,500 pounds GVWR) — 8 years or 80,000 miles (whichever occurs first) for catalytic converters, electronic engine control unit (ECU), transmission control module (TCM), and any other onboard emissions diagnostic module. — 3 years or 36,000 miles (whichever occurs first) for all other covered parts. Besides, I would not say that the capless system is "prone to failure". I have it on both the Edge and a Mustang and neither has ever caused the slightest problem. Nor have I seen any significant number of people mentioning problems in any of the Ford forums I frequent. I'm afraid this is going to be one of those customer pay repairs unless you can get the dealer to cover it under some sort of goodwill situation. First off, I'm aware of what the manual says, just because it says it doesn't make it right. Secondly, I'd beg to differ with your assessment that the capless filler isn't prone to problems given the amount of information/complaints I found with one simple search. Try it and see... The part that's failing is part of the vapor recovery which, last time I checked is REQUIRED to pass emissions test. I've got another car that failed that part and all it took was a Walmart trip to buy a new cap for a total of about $4.00. Can you do this with this capless system? NOPE. One would think they'd at least warranty this item for X amount of years with unlimited mileage. Mine is having issues at 2 years old. As for it working properly because it "told me something was wrong" all I can say is "uh huh,sure" Any repair suggestions are welcome at this point... Edited February 13, 2015 by twodips Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWizard Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 First off, I'm aware of what the manual says, just because it says it doesn't make it right. Secondly, I'd beg to differ with your assessment that the capless filler isn't prone to problems given the amount of information/complaints I found with one simple search. Try it and see... The part that's failing is part of the vapor recovery which, last time I checked is REQUIRED to pass emissions test. I've got another car that failed that part and all it took was a Walmart trip to buy a new cap for a total of about $4.00. Can you do this with this capless system? NOPE. One would think they'd at least warranty this item for X amount of years with unlimited mileage. Mine is having issues at 2 years old. As for it working properly because it "told me something was wrong" all I can say is "uh huh,sure" Any repair suggestions are welcome at this point... Whether it is "right" or not is a matter of opinion. It certainly is a legal warranty and it is very specific on what Ford (and their dealers) will cover under warranty and unfortunately your issue isn't one of those things. My opinion on whether it's right (FWIW) is that you're not even close to being covered under warranty at more than 14,000 miles over so I don't think there is any obligation at all for them to fix it under warranty. It makes absolutely no difference to anyone whether it is required to pass an emissions test. Warranties are not for unlimited mileage no matter how much you might think they should be. Most of those complaints you found are from the vocal few and don't represent the vast majority of owners (hundreds of thousands of Fords with capless fillers) that have no reason to get on the internet and shout about how unfair it all is. BTW, I think it's fair to say that judging by your comments you are probably not going to have much chance at a goodwill adjustment at the dealer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omar302 Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 What is the actual problem? Is it the caplless system itself meaninig it is not closing correctly? What is the dealers cost for repair? Might be minimal compared to making a big issue of it being covered or not under warranty. Also, you can still purchase a locking cap to cover the fuel outlet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Just another owner who turns down the opportunity to purchase an extended warranty then complains about something not being covered. TANSTAAFL. If they covered things like that under warranty then the cost would have been added into the price of your vehicle. Either way you're paying for it whether it's a factory warranty, extended warranty or out of pocket. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWPerfA_ZN0W Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) No harm done in talking with the dealer, and with Ford Customer Service (FordService/Tricia on here). But if it comes down to it, not cheap, but here's the locking cap for the 2013 Edge (3.5L engine) 8U5Z-9C268-B: http://www.levittownfordsupercenter.com/ford-locking-fuel-plug-p-393.html http://www.amazon.com/Genuine-Ford-8U5Z-9C268-B-Fuel-Filler/dp/B001H1O688 http://www.fordpartsgiant.com/parts/ford-plug-filler_8u5z-9c268-b.html Edited February 13, 2015 by WWWPerfA_ZN0W Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
factor99 Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) The locking cap looks nice but it seems it is just for tamper reistance and it doesn't look like it would seal the opening if the capless system is leaking vapour. Edited February 13, 2015 by factor99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimp Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Reference: "Any suggestions?" I noticed that you said that you are driving around and waiting for the trouble code to clear itself after you cleaned up the gas inlet. Have you looked at just manually clearing the code and then waiting to see if it comes back or not? I have had success in doing that with Honda and Mercedes vehicles that were reluctant to clear after a problem had been fixed. It's certainly something that I'd try before resorting to more expensive measures. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CARR142 Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Take a look at this, hopes it helps. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ls973800 Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) Carr142, that was a very informative video and explained pretty well how the seal works, and what to do first if it sets an engine code for leaking. I also watched his related video where he actually replaces the tube assembly. Should be very similar I would think on an Edge. One note near the end of his video. He specifically mentioned that Ford is not covering any repairs other than under the bumper to bumper warranty. The power train warranty and the emissions warranty do not cover this repair. Confirms what others have posted on here. Edited February 13, 2015 by ls973800 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twodips Posted February 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 (edited) Just another owner who turns down the opportunity to purchase an extended warranty then complains about something not being covered. TANSTAAFL. If they covered things like that under warranty then the cost would have been added into the price of your vehicle. Either way you're paying for it whether it's a factory warranty, extended warranty or out of pocket. For the record I purchased the vehicle used and was over mileage at 43k so the extended warranty wasn't an option, I tried. Reference: "Any suggestions?" I noticed that you said that you are driving around and waiting for the trouble code to clear itself after you cleaned up the gas inlet. Have you looked at just manually clearing the code and then waiting to see if it comes back or not? I have had success in doing that with Honda and Mercedes vehicles that were reluctant to clear after a problem had been fixed. It's certainly something that I'd try before resorting to more expensive measures.F I was hoping to avoid disconnecting the battery more than once to clear a code and was trying to see if there were any other fixes available. Take a look at this, hopes it helps. I watched that video and did what they said yet the code didn't clear. Talked to the dealer and was told that Ford (unlike other cars I've had) does not reset codes easy. It has to work through a specific system order and if you shut down the motor anywhere in between the specific code you want cleared it starts all over from the beginning. All the others have cleared after about the third start. I was nice to the dealer, spoke calmly and logically, even asked politely as all get out if they could possibly clear the code for me to which I was told "bring it in for a service visit (aka $$$). I did leave frustrated and muttering as I drove out of the driveway. Also, just for the record I like this car with the exception of the rocking chair drivers seat... Edited February 15, 2015 by twodips Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordService Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 I have a 2013 Edge Limited and the check engine light came on. Ran a diagnostic and it showed as a problem with the capless system/vapor control. I searched information on how to fix the problem and did a full cleaning of the receptacle. After four days of driving the light still has not gone out so I went to the dealer and asked about the system and warranty. Given that I've got 50k miles on this Edge I was told that there is no warranty coverage even though it IS part of the emission control system... Welcome to the community, Twodips! My name is Tricia, and I’m the U.S. Ford Customer Service Representative. I’ll be happy to look into this further. Please PM your full name, VIN, current mileage, dealer, and best daytime phone number. No harm done in talking with the dealer, and with Ford Customer Service (FordService/Tricia on here)... As always thanks for the mention, WWWPerfA_ZN0W! Have a wonderful day! Tricia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twodips Posted March 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 This issue escalated from just a check engine light to being unable to fuel the vehicle using anything larger than a teaspoon. Took 20 minutes to pump in 3 gallons as the pump clicked off constantly even when I manually pumped as slow as it could. I found some information that the Canister Vent Valve fails frequently and can be the cause of this issue. Replaced the canister vent valve ($21) which is really easy to do but that did not fix the issue. Reset codes and it came back on again. Cleaned the filler tube and vent holes again, reset the codes and the light is back. Guess I'll have to give in and buy the filler neck ($47 online instead of the $85 + tax the dealers want) and do the 2 hours to put it in. Man I miss the $5 gas cap replacement and the 2 minutes it takes to put on. Ahhh, progress... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twodips Posted March 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 So here's an update: Went to the dealer yesterday and spoke with the service manager about what was going on and gave him the print outs of the codes that were showing up. After I told him what I'd replaced he was nice enough to grab his code reader and clear the codes saying "let's see if they return". He then went on to say "you most likely have to replace the filler neck which is a rather pricey part". When I told him how much I can get it for on the 'net and at the dealership he was shocked. He said "are you serious, last time I looked it was way more than that." He went on to say "Ford must have dropped the price, the only time they do that is if they're replacing a bunch of them under warranty". When the majority of warranty fixes are done they'll go way back up again." Wonderful, time to fix it and send it down the road I guess... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWizard Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 I wouldn't put too much stock in the service manager's comment about parts pricing. I worked in both dealer and head office parts departments over a span of 20 years and never experienced pricing changes merely because of warranty claims. It makes no sense - Ford still has sunk cost in the parts whether they're manufactured by Ford or bought from a supplier. And they don't pay the dealer any markup on parts used for warranty anyway - they pay only dealer cost for parts (basically a reimbursement) and a job flat rate for labor. That's one of the reasons that dealers aren't fond of doing warranty work... they don't make as much on the job as they would if it was customer paid. Parts pricing varies for many reasons including supply and demand. It is common for parts to go down in price after a model changes because supply is high but demand has gone down due to the part not being needed on the assembly line. It's also common for the price to drop when the same part continues to be used for subsequent models because the tooling and other initial setup costs have been recovered so the ongoing cost is much lower (I think that is probably the case with your filler neck). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twodips Posted March 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 What I did find interesting is that the neck is about $320 at Autozone and at several online parts houses like JC Whitney but $85 at the dealer and $41 at some other online sources. Ford parts dept. told me that $41 is just above their cost. I asked if they'd sell it to me for $60 as I would get it the next day but (sadly) they declined. So, $41 it is with a total cost of $57 after shipping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twodips Posted April 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2015 Replaced the Filler Tube, took about 1 hour total, easy to do as long as you have some tools and a jack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWPerfA_ZN0W Posted April 6, 2015 Report Share Posted April 6, 2015 On to the canister/solenoid next! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmk184 Posted June 16, 2016 Report Share Posted June 16, 2016 (edited) Anyone have any updates on this capless filler system issue? Looks like I'm going to the dealship or going to try to clean and clear the code. Has anyone else replaced the filler tube? If so, any part numbers? Edited June 16, 2016 by rmk184 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRbillZ Posted June 16, 2016 Report Share Posted June 16, 2016 So why did you have to replace it... Because a light was on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermans Posted June 16, 2016 Report Share Posted June 16, 2016 In my 2013 Fusion hybrid they had to replace the filler neck as it had broke and would not let me fill up the tank, At the time they said it was extremely rare. My light also went on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.