jpark Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 (edited) Kevin, Three questions: 1) Do the 6000K bulbs have any kind of physical color on the lamp glass (quartz), or are they totally clear? 2) Have these bulbs caused any discoloration of the chrome "Ford" shield inside the headlamp housings? 3) Do the ballasts seem to get too warm, or even hot? If they really work plug 'n play, I'm interested. Thanks! Edited January 15, 2008 by jpark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xplorgee Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 Id imagine the bulbs are clear. my 4300 and 5000 are clear. i have felt my ballasts after 10 min and their not warm. Most are made with epoxy in the innards of the box. Id imagine it would get hot but I think its a power regulator for the 35w bulbs. I had bulbs in my car for 6-7 months in my first Edge and it didnt discolor or melt anything. And its pretty at nite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincoln Lover Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Okay guys, just picked up an 08' MKX. I got it with the intention of putting HID on it. I have only found one person who did this to a MKX and he basically said when he unlocks the car, and the headlights come on, he had to turn the headlight switch to the on position before the headlights went off or the headlights would flicker and go out. Then they would not turn on again. But if he did it before they went out, they worked fine. After reading your posts, obviously a HID install is possible, but is there anything besides the ballast, igniter, and what would come with a higher end kit that is needed? What about a relay? Please someone who knows what they are talking about clue me in a little. The only lead I had was maybe the battery needed disconnected to reset the perimeter lighting? Did you connect to the battery itself? Where did you ground? Any help and or pics would be the biggest help. After 3 Lincolns with HID I want this one to be the best it can be as well. Also if someone tells me how, I'll post pics. If everything works out, before and after pics of the install. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xplorgee Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 It was a pretty easy install. First, remove the stock bulb connectors and put the new bulbs in. You will connect the new bulbs to the ballasts and the stock connectors will just dangle. With a relay kit from EBAY or wherever, you hook up the red ring wire to the battery. I used the extra post on the side of the + battery terminal with the wire that went to the power box. I then used the ground on the chassis that my battery went to. It worked out great and its kinda out the way. I put the ballasts on the side of my headlight housing ( need to find some better adhesive since the 3M stuff didnt work too well ) but when they stoped adhering, they stayed in the headlight housing pocket and wouldnt budge. With the relay kit wires run, one lone cable w/ connector will go to the right and one short one to the left. You hook those connections up to the ballasts. With the relay kit there is another short wire that has little terminal connectors. Remember the dangling original light bulb connectors. You insert them into the original female plug of the stock light bulb of the left (drivers) side connector. Remember to check the polarity before connecting them. I put a plastic clear bag on the right side bulb connector with electrical tape so a short wouldnt occur. Put the fuse in the relay kit and your ready to go. Turn on and the buzz happends with pretty light. Then purty up the engine bay with tie wraps and ur good to go. If you want to really weatherprotect your relay kit since its not waterproof, you can put plastic bags over your fuse ( the relay kits seem to have it exposed ) and the actuall relay ( the box with 4 pins). Thats about it. Other than making things look pretty, only takes maybee 30 min if you have the right tools. Good times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincoln Lover Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Thanks for the reply, so if I understand right I will need the HID kit and then a relay? The Xetronic Digital kit that I have chose does not have a relay in it. If you had to guess, would the relay be the missing link in the afore mentioned circumstance? Thank in advance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinb120 Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 (edited) No the bulbs are clear. Hid lighting colors are from the gases, not cheapo bulbs dipped in food dye(although PIAA gang rapes you on their halogen bulbs). I mounted them to a couple areas on the inner fenders, I'll get a pic sometime. I used double sided body tape, they've held up fine. No you don't need a relay. You only get single beam H11's as your factory halogen high-beams do the, uh, high-beam duty....Mine do not flicker or anything when I turn them on, even when just unlocking with the key fob. The ballasts barely get warm to the touch, if at all. I drove 8 hours straight with them last Friday(and back on Sunday)... If I did it again I would get 4300K, yes it will still look a little blue but with better light output. And in areas where the police are really tough, it doesn't stick out so much in traffic. Just be very careful not to break the ceramic anode that runs along the bulb(white stick). I had to very slightly trim the tabs on the bulbs a bit as the housings had 0 tolerance and I didn't want to chip the chrome off the plastic edges of the housing opening(its not exactly tiffany's, the opening in the housing was a bit rough actually), and have it fall down inside the headlight housing(some still did but I got it out). Be very patient and check the fit a few times so you don't force anything. I filed the sharp edges of the tabs a hair and beveled the contact area so it doesn't 'shave' off the chrome, as the tabs were quite sharp. It still took quite a bit of effort to turn them to full lock. It should not discolor the chrome as it runs at much lower temperatures then a halogen bulb. If I remember correctly, I used 3M body tape(orange plastic release strips) and on the passenger side there is a small flat spot below a section of sound deadening that looks like dynomat on the inner fender panel and stuck the balast vertically, and on the driver side there was a much larger flat area I stuck it horizontally. I used a little pad of adhesion promoter and they aren't going anywhere. The two lead spades go right into the harness socket, and I wrapped the one positive lead on each side with a little elec tape just to be extra safe that it never touches anything(even though its nearly impossible). It is fused through the normal headlight fuse so no power leads are needed. Got this set here: http://stores.ebay.com/wholesale-hid Edited January 18, 2008 by kevinb120 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Talionis Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 Kevin - thanks for all the info.. following this thread so at one time you provided this link http://vvme.com/catalog/list-s-10145-10146.html now you provide this new eBay link.. any reason for the change? just price? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiffany Posted January 19, 2008 Report Share Posted January 19, 2008 I didn't need any relay for mine. Works with autolamp and the perimeter lighting when you unlock the car at night. Two balasts, the harness' to each bulb, and the leads go directly into the factory bulb harness plug. The leads direct 12V power to the balasts as it would a light bulb, the balast turns on and directs the proper voltage to the HID bulb and on it comes... Easy as pie. . I wouldn't bother with HID's for the hi-beams, no OEM manufacturer does and the lower reflector is optimized for throwing the halogen lighting up and out without regard for glare, so it's more then adequate. Only the 2008 Mustang uses factory 'bi-xenon' via a moveable reflector plate. Everyone else uses halogen high-beams. Wouldn't bother with the fogs either.... hi I have done a few HID kits with direst Plug N Play. I have read where you have to use a realy and seperate harness to the battery. I will say, I have never done this. I use quality kits like MTEC. If the ballast draw is only 35watts and stock halogen is 55watts, WHY USE A RELAY... ANYONE KNOW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiffany Posted January 19, 2008 Report Share Posted January 19, 2008 I didn't need any relay for mine. Works with autolamp and the perimeter lighting when you unlock the car at night. Two balasts, the harness' to each bulb, and the leads go directly into the factory bulb harness plug. The leads direct 12V power to the balasts as it would a light bulb, the balast turns on and directs the proper voltage to the HID bulb and on it comes... Easy as pie. . I wouldn't bother with HID's for the hi-beams, no OEM manufacturer does and the lower reflector is optimized for throwing the halogen lighting up and out without regard for glare, so it's more then adequate. Only the 2008 Mustang uses factory 'bi-xenon' via a moveable reflector plate. Everyone else uses halogen high-beams. Wouldn't bother with the fogs either.... hi I have done a few HID kits with direct Plug N Play. I have read where you have to use a relay and seperate harness to the battery. WHY I will say, I have never done this. I use quality kits like MTEC. If the ballast draw is only 35watts and stock halogen is 55watts, WHY USE A RELAY... ANYONE KNOW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincoln Lover Posted January 19, 2008 Report Share Posted January 19, 2008 I don't know- I have an MKX and wanted to do a HID kit. I have my eye on a very high quality kit from a recognized SEMA company. But the only person who I have ever heard of doing a kit to an MKX ended up with problems with the bulbs staying on if he did not turn on the headlights manually before the perimeter lighting went off. If he didn't get them on in time, they would just flicker and go out. From everything I have read here though, it seems more and more likely that he doesn't have them set up correctly. It is a plug and play kit, reatlals for about $700.00, brand is Xetronic and it is their digital kit. Any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xplorgee Posted January 19, 2008 Report Share Posted January 19, 2008 Xetronic HIDS are cheaper here: http://www.lskoncepts.com/store/xetronic-h...n-kits-p-20.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Talionis Posted January 19, 2008 Report Share Posted January 19, 2008 (edited) So what's the diff between a $300-400 kit like those Xetronics and a $50-100 kit off eBay or the above link in #32? Is the quality or durability that different? or is one just paying for the name? Edited January 19, 2008 by Lex Talionis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinb120 Posted January 19, 2008 Report Share Posted January 19, 2008 (edited) So what's the diff between a $300-400 kit like those Xetronics and a $50-100 kit off eBay or the above link in #32? Is the quality or durability that different? or is one just paying for the name? You're just paying for the name in most cases. I went with the other seller for this set because it seemed a bit more convenient and a little less $$ I actually wanted to try one of the least expensive kits on purpose, works exactly like an expensive set, looks the same, same connectors, same bulbs, same everything. If there was a set made in the USA that was a little more I would buy simply because of that it but none are. Edited January 19, 2008 by kevinb120 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincoln Lover Posted January 20, 2008 Report Share Posted January 20, 2008 It is actually Ken from Lskoncepts that I will be buying the kit from. I will get it discounted, but the MSRP is still about 6-700.00 if I am not mistaken. But thank you for the link anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly6 Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 (edited) It was a pretty easy install. First, remove the stock bulb connectors and put the new bulbs in. You will connect the new bulbs to the ballasts and the stock connectors will just dangle. With a relay kit from EBAY or wherever, you hook up the red ring wire to the battery. I used the extra post on the side of the + battery terminal with the wire that went to the power box. I then used the ground on the chassis that my battery went to. It worked out great and its kinda out the way. I put the ballasts on the side of my headlight housing ( need to find some better adhesive since the 3M stuff didnt work too well ) but when they stoped adhering, they stayed in the headlight housing pocket and wouldnt budge. With the relay kit wires run, one lone cable w/ connector will go to the right and one short one to the left. You hook those connections up to the ballasts. With the relay kit there is another short wire that has little terminal connectors. Remember the dangling original light bulb connectors. You insert them into the original female plug of the stock light bulb of the left (drivers) side connector. Remember to check the polarity before connecting them. I put a plastic clear bag on the right side bulb connector with electrical tape so a short wouldnt occur. Put the fuse in the relay kit and your ready to go. Turn on and the buzz happends with pretty light. Then purty up the engine bay with tie wraps and ur good to go. If you want to really weatherprotect your relay kit since its not waterproof, you can put plastic bags over your fuse ( the relay kits seem to have it exposed ) and the actuall relay ( the box with 4 pins). Thats about it. Other than making things look pretty, only takes maybee 30 min if you have the right tools. Good times. hi: Can you post couple of photo to show how to connect relay and hid set? I have attached the install guide, but i am not sure where i should connect the signal and two ground line! Thanks! Edited January 21, 2008 by fly6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinb120 Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 (edited) I don't understand why some people make this so inordinately complicated. The single element system runs off of a simple 12V source-I.E. the original headlight sockets that gave juice to the original bulbs. What the HELL is a relay supposed to do? ANY situation where your original bulb is on, the power goes to the balasts, any time your original bulb is off, no power goes to the balast. When the balast receives its 12-volt supply, the lights come on. How is it POSSIBLE in any way, shape, or form that a 'converted' HID bulb be on when it is not supposed to be???? That makes no sense whatsoever. Unless the car is DRL equipped, the entire system is an extension of your original bulbs, powered and fused the exact same way. And $700 for an aftermarket kit?? I guess every 5 sales the guy takes a 5-day cruise?? I could see it for genuine Sylvania or Phillips bulbs, but anything other then 4300K means there is no way it could possibly be from either company, as they don't make them in any other temperature. Everything else probably comes from the same plant in China. Going back and looking at that link, this is the EXACT kit that VVME and most of the other brands are based off of(the 'Fusion' version), including 3 sets I have had, just different labels.: http://www.lskoncepts.com/store/fusion-hid...n-kit-p-137.php I would say if you want to spend a few bucks, the 'middle' kit Xetronic set is probably the best bang for the buck, but may be somewhere for even less. None of these use Sylvania bulbs. EDIT: after looking at it again, definitely the Xetronic set in 4300K. I may spring for a set of them somewhere down the line. Edited January 22, 2008 by kevinb120 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpark Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 (edited) Kevin, The reason I'm asking about the direct connection is that Ford uses high-side FET (field-effect transistors) to control each headlamp bulb. Solid-state controls like this are usually designed to control resistive loads, such as filament bulbs like halogens. Inductive loads such as ballasts and transformers can destroy solid-state devices if they're not protected by shunt diodes. Maybe those are included in the ballasts you have, since they seem to work. I talked to a Ford electronics engineer who said that the headlamp output in the Edge (and in many Fords using the same Smart Junction Box) is actually a PULSED +12V, not continuous, to help increase halogen headlamp life (and to allow for DRL control by varying the pulse sizes). Pulsed outputs, combined with an inductive load, could spell trouble for the headlamp controls if used directly with cheap aftermarket HID ballasts, or even with relays. Also, inrush current (the current that a load draws when first switched on) may be HIGHER with ballasts, even if the normal operating current is lower. THAT could also destroy the headlamp control FET. But the real thing to worry about here is the Smart Junction Box, since the headlamp control circuits are non-replaceable parts built into it as one box (which controls much of the electronics). If you fry the headlamp outputs, you'll need an entire new SJB, and that could cost almost $1,000. I'm also guessing that Ford could determine the cause of an SJB failure, and deny a warranty claim. Those are just a few things that people should consider here before trying an HID kit. Since I have a lot of experience with FETs and other solid-state controls (and what cheap inductors can do to them), I think I'll pass on aftermarket HID for now, unless I hear something different from that Ford engineer. Just a warning...remember that if you fry your headlamp circuits, you'll need an entire Smart Junction Box to get them working again. Edited January 22, 2008 by jpark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinb120 Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 Interesting, I haven't had any issues in the 05, 06, or 07 mustangs I had either, so who knows... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpark Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 Then maybe the kits you're using ARE the ones people should be looking for. If other kits don't work, I'd stay away from them as if they were radioactive. A fried SJB would be a disaster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinb120 Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 heh, the cheapie mo betta ones seem to work ok...I just know so many people that have used just about every kind of set out there with no issues on non DRL cars, but yea, if something happens you'd probably be SOL any way you do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpark Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 Since the DRL option is something any Ford dealer can turn on with a simple reprogram of the SJB, an accidental DRL signal could cause the SJB to have an accident. DOH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpark Posted January 23, 2008 Report Share Posted January 23, 2008 Update: I looked at the wiring diagrams for the MKZ. The MKZ's SPDJB outputs control both the halogen low-beams (on non-HID models) and a set of relays (on HID-equipped models). If those MKZ outputs have the same specs as the outputs on the Edge's SPDJB, I'm going to buy those Ford factory relays and use them to switch the HID ballasts. I'm waiting for a reply from a Ford engineer to see if the outputs are the same. Just protectin' my SPDJB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpark Posted January 30, 2008 Report Share Posted January 30, 2008 It turns out that the MKZ's low-beam output is NOT pulsed. Using the MKZ's relays on the Edge's low-beam output MAY cause the relays to buzz or chatter, but at least they won't fry anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Talionis Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 (edited) If I did it again I would get 4300K, yes it will still look a little blue but with better light output. And in areas where the police are really tough, it doesn't stick out so much in traffic. you also said earlier "Although the blue tint to the 6000k is very cool, with the reflector not being as effective as the Mustang's, I would probably recommend 4300k." - so you say 4300k is the way... but reading and looking at the cool chart on VVME seen here, it shows with an image and they say you will not really get the blue tint unless you minimally go to the 6000k... part of the goal is the extra light output, but a big part is the blue tint, which their lit says will not come until you go to 6000k...your thoughts on that as you seem the only one here having real practical experience? Got this set here: http://stores.ebay.com/wholesale-hid FWIW...I have tried to contact these eBay guys like 3 times with no response... in reading their Feedback, this seems to be a common theme with them. So, I might go with those from VVME.. Edited January 31, 2008 by Lex Talionis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Talionis Posted February 1, 2008 Report Share Posted February 1, 2008 (edited) I thought I would post up some links I found on YouTube that show actual video installs and differences in colors before and afters.. there are many, here are just 2 I picked - good resource for HID stuff. hope it helps you like me: - basic install video - very cool before and after with night driving video want to see a high resolution image (warning, big photo) of what an HID kit looks like: http://frank.newbiverse.com/include/images/HIDs/all.JPG disclaimer: I am not endorsing any brand and naturally your car will vary from the videos in slight ways, but it makes the point.. Edited February 1, 2008 by Lex Talionis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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