How to eliminate (HYPER-FLASHING) without using load resistors? 2013 Edge Sport

[FarmerDave]

BlackEdition, you are right - theyre not that expensive and I'd be willing to give it a shot and be the guinea pig. I was kinda hoping Mr Wizard would jump in here and help differentiate between "resistors", "equalizers", and "decoders". I think we all know what a resistor is, and equalizer just seems like a fancy schmancy term for kinda does the same thing. Wizard's recommended Dual Load Equalizer device is basicly one box with two resistors in it (I think).

 

But "decoder" sounds like it might perform an entirely different function. Maybe its just a case of the Chinese mis-translating the word, like they do so often in descriptions and instruction sheets. Id like to at least hear a little more before buying. Even tho this would be an ultra simple fix, I still dont expect that unit to fit behind the rear lens. That would mean using a resistor somewhere in-line anyway for the rears, or maybe looking into PJSocket's bulb extender option, which looks really low profile and fills the bill for easy undo. Hell, maybe Wizard's dual equalizer IS the simplest to cover all four corners with the least fuss.

Edited March 17, 2014 by FarmerDave

[TheWizard]

Sorry, I don't know what a "decoder" does either - at least not in this application. I can see a decoder being a CAN-BUS device for vehicles that use that type of circuit but the Edge doesn't so I don't know how a "decoder" would differ from a simple resistor.

 

You're right about the term "equalizer"... it's just a fancy name for a resistor module. The function of the resistor in this case is to "equalize" the load of the LED bulb so that it matches that of an incandescent bulb's filament so that the flasher system doesn't see the low resistance of the LED bulb as a problem.

 

Those bulb extensions look like an excellent solution to not modifying the factory harness - just wire your resistor into the extension and it can be plugged in leaving the option to simply unplug if you ever need to go back to stock. I don't think there is enough room behind the tail lights to fit a resistor even with the extensions and I would be concerned about the heat from the resistor in such a small enclosed space anyway. But they may not be necessary... it's quite possible that adding resistors to the front will be enough. Especially since most have only noticed the hyper-flash when the headlights are on (the front bulb is dual filament but the back isn't so it should not be affected by headlights).

 

I like the idea of the bulb extension so much that I think I'll buy a couple to redo the resistors connections on the front. I'm also going to see if they have H9/H11 versions because I'm about to replace my Mustang headlight and fog light bulbs with special high power LED bulbs from V-LEDs (2000 lumens and none of the start-up issues of HIDs).

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Xenon-HID-Kits-Relay-Capactior-Warning-Error-Canceller-Decoder-Anti-Flicker-/261257084303

 

 

Are you planning to install this, Wizard?

 

http://www.vleds.com/headlights/led-headlights/5k-white-cxa-9006.html

[TheWizard]

Yes, those are the ones (although I'm getting the H11 version). I'm not sure how well they'll work because I've seen conflicting reviews about using them in halogen projector housings. I've replaced the stock halogen reflector headlights with projectors and the fog lights are projector as well so I guess I'll be able tell for myself.

 

I also ordered the small H11 harness extensions off eBay so that I can connect the LED headlight controller box without modifying the factory headlight wiring. That way I can remove them for return if they don't play well with projector housings.

[pjsockett]

Has anyone that has the hyperflash issue only installed the taillights? That may help to see if the resistor only being used on the headlights will fix the issue.

[FarmerDave]

Well I rec'd my "3157 LED Bulb Warning Error Free Canceler Canbus Decoder Adapter Kit" last Friday. Model Number: BTLC-C3157-B if you want to Google it.

 

As the unofficial Guinea pig on this item, I can now report to those who might be interested. The decoder did nothing positive on my '11 Edge. Not saying they wont work on yours, but they didn't on mine and I cant believe there would be any difference in how your Edge is wired. Wizard must be right (again) in that a "decoder" applies to some kind of CAN bus situation. I had my suspicions too. I am a bit baffled by one importer's website where they did in fact use the word "resistor" in the description. I can only conclude there must be some additional circuitry in a decoder/canceller.

 

 

Here's what happened with both decoders installed (front only):

 

With headlights OFF:

Left turn signal - both L&R bulbs flashed simultaneously at normal flash rate with the left bulb being almost imperceptably brighter than the right bulb.

 

Right turn signal - both L&R bulbs flashed simultaneously at normal flash rate with the right bulb being almost imperceptably brighter than the left bulb.

 

With headlights ON:

Both sides steady ON, bright, and no change (no blink) when either turn signal activated.

 

All the while the rears were performing normally. I changed polarity on the decoder as well as the bulb thru all four connection possibilities (two of which didnt work because the bulb itself was backwards) and had same results.

 

Meanwhile, rec'd my Edge 2 DRLs. If we ever get some warm weather, I'll get that install underway. I plan on using the "bulb extenders" mentioned above to tap the DRLs into and can then add a resistor if necessary. Might just be wishful thinking, but maybe the extra load of the DRLs alone will cure the whole mess.

Edited March 25, 2014 by FarmerDave

[BlackEdition]

Sorry to hear that the decoders didn't work out for you FarmerDave. But thanks for sharing! I couldn't handle buying them and wait weeks for them to arrive and have them solve nothing for me.

 

Do you think buying the extension and using the load resistors on them (just 2 for the fronts) would solve the whole problem?

 

I might go ahead these next couple of days and do a little test, i'll install the default factory bulbs (for one side only, rear or front) and see if that makes any difference, if it does then buying 2 resistors for the fronts would be enough.

Edited March 27, 2014 by BlackEdition

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

Hope the extensions + resistors work out for you guys!

[BlackEdition]

I have been checking my thread from time to time hoping for new solutions/useful discussions. Im still suffering from this hyper-flashing.

Any updates with you FarmerDave? I hope TheWizard can look over this and give us his tips (or anyone else with some experience):

 

I finally decided to go with the load resistors..I gave up.

I just saw how Posi-Lock works and I like it! I feel more comfortable using this than ScotchLocks. Here's a video explaining it for those who might me interested:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yiimgl-Rdmw

 

There are different locks for it, im interested in the one called Posi-TAP @ 2:53.

 

So im thinking:

 

A combination of 3157 Wire Extension, Dual Load Equalizer and Posi-Taps. (I still don't wanna tap into the factory wire, that's why im getting the extensions).

I'll use one Dual Load Equalizer for the fronts and hope that will do the trick. If not, i'll be having a second equalizer as a backup (for the rears). Using Posi-Tap with them of course.

 

Im not sure how it goes, is this right? I took a screenshot of the video above and added some text to it:

 

Edited April 15, 2014 by BlackEdition

[TheWizard]

You can actually access the wiring for both side turn signals on the left side of the car but that would require tapping into the factory harness. But since you are using the 3157 extensions, you will need to extend either the purple or brown wire so that it can reach across the car to the socket on the other side. It does not matter which of those two wires you use for each side. Let's say you use purple for left and brown for right... Tap the module's purple wire into the red wire on the left side wire extension. Tap the black wire into the black wire on the extension. Add a few feet of wire to the brown wire and run it across the car to the right side and tap it into the red wire on the extension there. There is a convenient harness that already goes across the car behind the radiator support that you can zip-tie your wire to.

 

BTW, the Posi-Taps are a good idea because they are easier to install than ScotchLocks but they still do the same kind of cutting into the wire's insulation (it's unavoidable since you need to get to the wire inside to make a connection) so don't think that they are any better for your wiring. If you really want a good connection that is strong and weather proof, you need to cut and strip the wires, solder them together and seal them with heat shrink tubing. That's usually not an option when splicing into the factory wiring but it's easy when using those extensions.

Edited April 15, 2014 by TheWizard

[BlackEdition]

I just did some test yesterday, installed the factory bulbs for the fronts and there was no hyper flashing whatsoever! does that mean I'll only be needing one Dual Equalizer for the fronts? I haven't purchased anything yet, I was trying to figure out how to wire the second extension to reach that one Dual Equalizer.

 

And what about mounting it? I can't seem to understand how a double sided tape can hold it down and last for months or years under all that heat/rain and some off-roading. Perhaps go with the included double sided tape + a zip tie, yes?

I live in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia and the temperature here in the summer can hit up to 50C/122F (a lot hotter under the hood), It's too much. This is why I wasn't comfortable using a load resistor in the first place.

 

Thoughts?

Edited April 23, 2014 by BlackEdition

[TheWizard]

Yes, if you have LED bulbs in the back and ordinary incandescent bulbs in the front and experience no hyperflash then you will not need a load equalizer for the rear. If you then put LED bulbs in the front and start experiencing hyperflash then you only need load balancing (resistors) in the front.

 

I actually used a product called 3M DualLock to mount the dual load resistor box. It's similar to Velcro but uses plastic hooks on both sides instead of the cloth material used in Velcro so it provides a more secure (snap-in) mount. I want to be able to remove or put aside the box if I should end up doing other work near that area. The DualLock is held in place with its own 2-sided tape which is the same one 3M uses for attaching automotive mouldings. It will not come loose even in extreme heat or cold. Underhood temperatures in Florida while idling along at a mere 10mph for charity events would probably be very similar to what you experience. You can get 3M moulding tape from most automotive supply shops if you don't want to get DualLock.

Edited April 24, 2014 by TheWizard

[BlackEdition]

Thank you Wizard for your continuous replies.

 

I think i'll stick with the included double-sided tape and some zip ties

Those plastic zip ties has never disappointed me in any use, I got a couple of them under the hood holding the ballasts for the HIDs.

 

Everything is figured out now, except how to use one load equalizer for both sides without any wire extensions?

Can you recommend a high quality dual load equalizer that comes with long wires? I would like to get the one that comes with a plastic housing, Im thinking the front middle of the hood is the best place to mount it, but im not sure whether it can reach both sides? Can you comment on that?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Signal-Dynamics-01008-Dual-Load-Equalizer-/261382401282?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3cdb9aed02&vxp=mtr

[FarmerDave]

Installing the Edge II DRL kit fixed my huperflash issue. I had previously installed Dan's 50W LED rear replacement bulbs and replaced both front turns with LED bulbs. I was getting normal flash with headlights off and hyperflash with headlights on. Evidently with the DRLs installed, the small increase in load on the turn circuit was enough to put me over that minimum resistance threshold and keep the BCM happy.

 

I ended up not being able to use the extender harnesses that I had bought specifically for the purpose of tapping the Edge II turn trigger wires into. The extenders selling on ebay for the 3157 bulb application will not work for the base/socket tab layout of the Edge, at least on my '11 SE. This was something I never even checked until I was right there ready to button things up. Shame on me. I didnt see any different based harnesses listed on ebay, but did see some sockets that looked like they would work. Would have had to replace two-tabbed socket on the extender with correct three-tabbed socket. By the time I discovered my oversight I was so close to seeing the DRLs work that I went ahead and tapped into my factory wiring.

 

BlackEdition, if you end up tapping into your front factory turn wiring, the PosiTap to use is the pink and red one. Part # EX-130RR. The factory wiring is a few guages smaller than the wire they use on the extenders (at least the ones I've seen) and to me it only makes sense to use a PosiTap with the smallest penetrator barb possible so as to do the least amount of damage to the wire. With the extenders I was gonna use, it seemed like the blue PosiTap (pictured above) fit best. This issue happened to be one I did see coming, so I bought an assortment pack of PosiTaps to cover all.

 

Wizard, I respectfully disagree with you on one small point concerning the positaps. You said they do the same kind of damage to the wire insulation as the ScotchLoks and I'm thinking the damage to be not equivalent in two ways:

 

With both tap types, there is interaction between the penetrator and the insulation, and interaction between the penetrator and the wire strand itself. First, on the insulation, the only analogy that comes to mind (and I admit, it's not a good one) would be the difference between ringing the bark around a tree vs drilling a hole in the tree. The metal blade of the ScotchLok has a very narrow slit in it. I'm guessing that upon a good healthy crimp with the pliers, probably 80-90 percent of the insulation is totally severed in one spot. This means that any future tensional forces exerted on that wire must be carried entirely by the wire strand without much benefit of support from the insulation. Second, concerning the wire strand, picture what happens in the crimping process as the relatively soft copper wire gets driven and compressed into the metal ScotchLok penetrator blade slot. Doesnt it seem likely that maybe a few strands of wire might be cut entirely by this sliding action, or at the very least that this action would create a "notch effect" stress raiser? We all know that things seem to break at notches - think concrete and glass. The Positap barb is very pointy and, I feel, will push its way thru the strand, or along side of it without creating this notch effect. The Positap also clamps the wire, insulation and all, in the immediate area surrounding the actual point of penetration preventing any wire flexure at the contact point.

 

What I dont like about the Positaps is how they shoot off at a 90 degree angle to your main run of wiring. With the Scotchloks all your wires run in-line and they could be taped up or conduited for protection. The taps make that difficult. I totally agree with you, Wiz, that the best junction would be the solder & heat shrink type. But how many of us really WANT to do that? It's a pain!

 

Just trying to defend my position, didnt want to labor the point.

[TheWizard]

 

Everything is figured out now, except how to use one load equalizer for both sides without any wire extensions?

Can you recommend a high quality dual load equalizer that comes with long wires? I would like to get the one that comes with a plastic housing, Im thinking the front middle of the hood is the best place to mount it, but im not sure whether it can reach both sides? Can you comment on that?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Signal-Dynamics-01008-Dual-Load-Equalizer-/261382401282?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3cdb9aed02&vxp=mtr

It is not necessary to run the load equalizer wires to both sides. Both side turn signal wires are available in the harness on the left side behind the headlight. You can connect the wiring there and there's lots of room to mount the box.

[TheWizard]

Dave,

 

I don't disagree that the Posi-Taps do slightly less damage to the wire insulation. ScotchLocks only cut the insulation on the sides resulting in about 50% separation compared to perhaps 10-15% for the pin of the Posi-Tap. But the difference is not significant in terms of practical lifetime (assuming you aren't attaching at a stress or flex point in the original wire) and the advantages of parallel wire connection and much lower cost make ScotchLocks a viable choice. I have used them for many years (more than I care to mention) and have never had a single failure... even in weather exposed locations on motorcycles. The Posi-Taps are an excellent product and I would never fault anyone for using them but it's nice to have options.

[BlackEdition]

Installing the Edge II DRL kit fixed my huperflash issue. I had previously installed Dan's 50W LED rear replacement bulbs and replaced both front turns with LED bulbs. I was getting normal flash with headlights off and hyperflash with headlights on. Evidently with the DRLs installed, the small increase in load on the turn circuit was enough to put me over that minimum resistance threshold and keep the BCM happy.

 

I ended up not being able to use the extender harnesses that I had bought specifically for the purpose of tapping the Edge II turn trigger wires into. The extenders selling on ebay for the 3157 bulb application will not work for the base/socket tab layout of the Edge, at least on my '11 SE. This was something I never even checked until I was right there ready to button things up. Shame on me. I didnt see any different based harnesses listed on ebay, but did see some sockets that looked like they would work. Would have had to replace two-tabbed socket on the extender with correct three-tabbed socket. By the time I discovered my oversight I was so close to seeing the DRLs work that I went ahead and tapped into my factory wiring.

 

BlackEdition, if you end up tapping into your front factory turn wiring, the PosiTap to use is the pink and red one. Part # EX-130RR. The factory wiring is a few guages smaller than the wire they use on the extenders (at least the ones I've seen) and to me it only makes sense to use a PosiTap with the smallest penetrator barb possible so as to do the least amount of damage to the wire. With the extenders I was gonna use, it seemed like the blue PosiTap (pictured above) fit best. This issue happened to be one I did see coming, so I bought an assortment pack of PosiTaps to cover all.

 

Wizard, I respectfully disagree with you on one small point concerning the positaps. You said they do the same kind of damage to the wire insulation as the ScotchLoks and I'm thinking the damage to be not equivalent in two ways:

 

With both tap types, there is interaction between the penetrator and the insulation, and interaction between the penetrator and the wire strand itself. First, on the insulation, the only analogy that comes to mind (and I admit, it's not a good one) would be the difference between ringing the bark around a tree vs drilling a hole in the tree. The metal blade of the ScotchLok has a very narrow slit in it. I'm guessing that upon a good healthy crimp with the pliers, probably 80-90 percent of the insulation is totally severed in one spot. This means that any future tensional forces exerted on that wire must be carried entirely by the wire strand without much benefit of support from the insulation. Second, concerning the wire strand, picture what happens in the crimping process as the relatively soft copper wire gets driven and compressed into the metal ScotchLok penetrator blade slot. Doesnt it seem likely that maybe a few strands of wire might be cut entirely by this sliding action, or at the very least that this action would create a "notch effect" stress raiser? We all know that things seem to break at notches - think concrete and glass. The Positap barb is very pointy and, I feel, will push its way thru the strand, or along side of it without creating this notch effect. The Positap also clamps the wire, insulation and all, in the immediate area surrounding the actual point of penetration preventing any wire flexure at the contact point.

 

What I dont like about the Positaps is how they shoot off at a 90 degree angle to your main run of wiring. With the Scotchloks all your wires run in-line and they could be taped up or conduited for protection. The taps make that difficult. I totally agree with you, Wiz, that the best junction would be the solder & heat shrink type. But how many of us really WANT to do that? It's a pain!

 

Just trying to defend my position, didnt want to labor the point.

 

Thanks Dave for sharing your experience. Installing Dan's DRLs seems to fix the issue, but unfortunately it does not fit my needs and there are a couple of things I don't like about it:

First of all, im not a fan of those extremely bright LEDs, I prefer the factory's brightness (im aware of the dimming feature when the headlights are on). Second, I don't like the single cree LED style, I prefer the factory LED tube (I love it! it's one of the things I like about the new Edge). I also don't like how the white LEDs go off when I hit a turn signal, I want them to stay on all the time even after activating a turn signal/hazards. Not sure if there's a workaround for this?

 

I can forget about those things I mentioned above and get myself a pair. But after watching the installation video, there seems to be splicing into factory wires, and also the whole installation looks too complicated for me :-( I don't like playing with the factory electrical wirings, tapping, and adding stuff (I had an old bad experience about this).

 

So I think i'll just stick with the dual load resistor and the 3157 wire extensions. You said the extensions on ebay did not fit on your Edge, so im pretty sure my 2013 has the same socket/base. Im gonna do a little research about this and hopefully find something that'll fit.

Edited April 30, 2014 by BlackEdition

[BlackEdition]

It is not necessary to run the load equalizer wires to both sides. Both side turn signal wires are available in the harness on the left side behind the headlight. You can connect the wiring there and there's lots of room to mount the box.

 

Hey Wizard, sorry for going back to this over and over, and I know im a pain in the a## but you guys are the only place where I can get help on this...please bear with me as im not a genius when it comes to wires under the hood and modding. I took a couple of picture to where I think you mean, is this where i'll be able to find both wires for left and right turn signals?

 

 

 

 

If yes, then that means you're talking about splicing into the factory wires, which is something im still trying to avoid.

[TheWizard]

You have two choices... you can splice into factory wires or you can find some 3157 extensions that actually fit and wire into each side separately (either extending the wires of the dual load equalizer or buying single load equalizers for each side).

 

I am at the office right now and don't have access to the Edge. Both side turn signal wires are in one of those harnesses in your photo but it's been so long since I installed that I would have to check exactly which one. However, I don't think it's those exposed wires - I had to open up the plastic harness cover to find the wires I needed.

 

I'm afraid I don't understand the extreme reluctance to patch into the factory wiring. It's obvious from your photos that you are not concerned about making modifications in general or about warranty issues (aftermarket HIDs certainly void any warranty headlight repairs) so how is connecting to factory wiring any different?

Edited April 30, 2014 by TheWizard

[TheWizard]

 

Thanks Dave for sharing your experience. Installing Dan's DRLs seems to fix the issue, but unfortunately it does not fit my needs and there are a couple of things I don't like about it:

First of all, im not a fan of those extremely bright LEDs, I prefer the factory's brightness (im aware of the dimming feature when the headlights are on). Second, I don't like the single cree LED style, I prefer the factory LED tube (I love it! it's one of the things I like about the new Edge). I also don't like how the white LEDs go off when I hit a turn signal, I want them to stay on all the time even after activating a turn signal/hazards. Not sure if there's a workaround for this?

 

I can forget about those things I mentioned above and get myself a pair. But after watching the installation video, there seems to be splicing into factory wires, and also the whole installation looks too complicated for me :-( I don't like playing with the factory electrical wirings, tapping, and adding stuff (I had an old bad experience about this).

 

So I think i'll just stick with the dual load resistor and the 3157 wire extensions. You said the extensions on ebay did not fit on your Edge, so im pretty sure my 2013 has the same socket/base. Im gonna do a little research about this and hopefully find something that'll fit.

 

The whole point of Daytime Running Lights is that they be visible in the daytime - that's why they have to be so bright. Individual LEDs versus light tube is personal preference although many new cars are now coming with the "string of individual LEDs" look around the headlights.

 

It would be difficult to see the amber turn signals next to the DRLs if the bright white LEDs didn't turn off during turn signal use. However, you could leave the turn signal function of the Edge2 lights disabled and rely only on the factory turn signals - that way the white DRLs would stay on all the time regardless of turn signal usage. All you have to do is not connect the turn signal trigger wire on the Edge2 lights.

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

Not to go offtopic, BlackEdition, but you really need a filter sock on the air filter. Not sure what brand you are running, but Airaid makes these covers for their filters to keep them cleaner longer.

[BlackEdition]

multipost

Edited May 1, 2014 by BlackEdition

[BlackEdition]

You have two choices... you can splice into factory wires or you can find some 3157 extensions that actually fit and wire into each side separately (either extending the wires of the dual load equalizer or buying single load equalizers for each side).

 

I am at the office right now and don't have access to the Edge. Both side turn signal wires are in one of those harnesses in your photo but it's been so long since I installed that I would have to check exactly which one. However, I don't think it's those exposed wires - I had to open up the plastic harness cover to find the wires I needed.

 

I'm afraid I don't understand the extreme reluctance to patch into the factory wiring. It's obvious from your photos that you are not concerned about making modifications in general or about warranty issues (aftermarket HIDs certainly void any warranty headlight repairs) so how is connecting to factory wiring any different?

 

I installed the HIDs and the K&N air filter at an authorized shop, that way im still under warranty. It's a rule here where you'll void your warranty if you did those modifications at unauthorized shop.

 

Not to go offtopic, BlackEdition, but you really need a filter sock on the air filter. Not sure what brand you are running, but Airaid makes these covers for their filters to keep them cleaner longer.

 

It's a K&N air intake, and according to the techies @ K&N, I don't need to clean the filter yet (it's been about 5 months now since I installed it). So a cover is not necessary.

http://www.knfilters.com/cleaning-pics.htm

Edited May 1, 2014 by BlackEdition

[BlackEdition]

I almost gave up on tapping into the factory wire, but then I found a socket with 3 tabs that might actually fit:

 

 

It has a decoder (which doesn't solve the hyper flashing issue with our Edges, according to one of the previous posts that I read ?), and who knows, maybe it'll actually work without needing the load resistors!

Im guessing there is no harm in using this decoder extension with a load resistor tapped into it?

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-LED-Decoder-3157A-Adapter-Anti-Hyper-Blinking-Flashing-Error-Cancel-Canbus-/321392426297?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4ad47b3d39&vxp=mtr

 

Should I go for it?

Edited May 1, 2014 by BlackEdition

[TheWizard]

 

I installed the HIDs and the K&N air filter at an authorized shop, that way im still under warranty. It's a rule here where you'll void your warranty if you did those modifications at unauthorized shop.

 

 

You might want to double check that. It sounds like an internet forum rumor rather than a fact. Ford is under no obligation to repair any item on the vehicle under warranty after it has been modified by the end user... regardless of where or who made the modifications. They can't deny warranty on unrelated items (e.g. they couldn't deny a transmission warranty claim because you modified the headlights) but they certainly would be under no obligation to repair any headlight problems. Under the "authorized shop" theory, you could install a supercharger at an "authorized shop" and then still make a warranty claim if you blew a hole in a piston - that's just not going to happen.

 

That applies even to FRP (Ford Racing Parts) parts purchased and installed at an authorized Ford dealership. Even though FRP is a Ford Motor Company subsidiary, their parts are considered aftermarket and any modifications made with them are not covered under the factory warranty (some are covered by their own warranty which matches the time and mileage limits of the factory warranty).

 

I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with the modifications you've made - just that you should be cautious about letting the dealer know you have them. For example, you should remove the CAI kit and replace the stock air filter before going to the dealer for warranty repair of an engine problem (e.g. rough idle, stumbling, poor mileage, etc.) because they are liable to blame the aftermarket filter without even checking thoroughly.