Who needs AWD?

[bbf2530]

Well here's a kick in the ass for you. We ordered a FWD Edge after driving in a friends FWD Limited. Last night during some light sleet our friend slid off the road and totaled his Edge (no one injured). After talking to him today on the phone I immediately called my Ford Dealer and let him know were looking for an AWD instead of the FWD. If he cant locate one locally he'll just change our order. Im figuring that in the next two years ill have small children so the extra bit of sure footed assurance on slippery roads will be good. Who needs AWD? Maybe this guy, who's going to be married and plans to have a family before getting a different vehicle...

 

Hi Edgieguy. :D Let me start off by saying two things: First, I am very glad that no one was injured. Second, I am in no way trying to talk you, or anyone else out of their decision to buy AWD, or FWD or RWD or whatever they prefer. Everybody should purchase what they like. Simple as that.

 

However, do not be fooled into thinking that your friend most likely would not have had the same accident, whether he had AWD or not. In general, AWD will only get you going, and keep you going, in harsher driving conditions. It will not save your bacon if you are driving too fast for the conditions.

 

Simply stated, your friend was driving too fast for the road/weather conditions, and AWD most likely would not have made a darn bit of difference. In a one car weather related accident, if we are driving at the proper speed, we will not have an accident. If you skid off the road, you are driving too fast. That is the exactly how the law looks at it, because it is simple common sense. If you weren't driving too fast, you would not have lost control and skid off the road.

 

AWD/4WD will not help you stop better, and in many cases, it will not help you turn better either. Sure, it will help some, but it cannot overcome the laws of physics.

 

Unfortunately (and this is nothing against your friend, who I am sure is a fine person), most single vehicle accidents such as the one you describe are caused by one simple factor, driving too fast for the conditions. If you drive long enough, it happens to many of us. But AWD/4WD is not the "save all" answer that some believe. It cannot make up for poor driver judgment (again, nothing against your friend, it can happen to any of us).

 

That is why, around my area of the Northeast, whenever we have heavy snow/rain/ice, the vehicles you most often see off the road, nose first or rear end first in the snowbanks or trees, are the AWD and 4WD ones. Why? Because their drivers overestimate the benefits of AWD.

 

These are the same people we see blowing by us in a blinding rainstorm or blizzard. They don't understand AWD/4WD only helps them get moving and stay moving, in a straight line. They will still hydroplane on puddles and skid on ice like the rest of us "mortals". I must admit, while I always make sure that they are unhurt first, I find a certain amusement in their disbelief that they skidded and hit something. "But I have AWD!!!" they alway say!.

 

Simply put, if you, I, or anyone else slide of the road, and we were not cut off by another car, a deer, Elvis, a UFO etc, etc, we were driving too fast for the road conditions. It is driver error, and AWD will not save us.

 

All of that now said, I wish you many miles of safe and happy driving in your new AWD Edge!

 

Good luck! :beerchug:

Edited December 21, 2007 by bbf2530

[Edgieguy]

^ I could not agree more. What a great point you make!!!!

As a cop I get to see more accidents then most except maybe tow truck drivers and our EMS crews... It never fails to amaze me that every year when we have our first few inches of snow, all the 4x4's are upside down, and off the sides of the road as the cautious drivers afraid of getting stuck in the snow putt putt by a slow and careful pace. As for the driver of the FWD Edge, yes he said he was going to fast, didnt realize that the rain was sleet and that it had begun freezing to the road surface... a little too much understeer and some black ice and he was off the road. Cant say whether or not he would have been bailed out by AWD, but the more I thought about it, and the more I thought about absolutely HAVING to get to work in the ABSOLUTE worst case scenario, the more I figured that its worth it for me to give up a few MPGs for having AWD. Ill still probably never really need it, but ill spring for it. The fiancee feels a little better about it as well.

[ie2special]

For us the price difference was not an issue, so very small. We originally wanted FWD but changed our minds cause the price was negligable. I want as many options as I can get, resale and personal tastses included.

[edgedout]

Hi Kevin. :D Yes, that is why America is such a great country. We can all do/buy whatever we like, and whatever makes us happy (as long as we don't hurt anyone else :angel: )!

 

Good luck with your CUV (Edge, MKX?). :beerchug:

I do not need AWD for a number of reason, HOWEVER: Our economy

is built to sell things to people that they don't really "need". The list

would be absolutly endless.

[nissassa]

I live along the Wasatch Front and recently got rid of my 05 Acura TL for an 08 AWD Edge. I did so because my TL with snow tires was having a bit of trouble going up a somewhat steep road that takes me home. This happened during a recent snow storm. We have had a similar storm since i got the Edge. Let me tell you... the AWD is money well spent in my opinion.

The "secure" feeling you get from driving an AWD car during snow/rain is worth it.

[kevinb120]

I agree with the 'why get a cuv without AWD?'.

 

As to the accident listed above, the drivetrain had nothing to do with it as explained ad nauseum. You can actually get it to a bit more trouble with AWD as in snow you basically give it the throttle and it just goes, next thing you know you're doing 55 on a snow covered road and turning and stopping becomes a whole different matter. In a RWD sports car it takes such an effort to get up to any type of driving speed you become hyper-aware of how slippery the road really is. You have to respect the added capeability of AWD in very slippery conditions, if you're not carefull it will bite you quick.

 

I regularly drive FWD Edges on test drives and fill them up when I sell them, and just making a right into fast moving traffic in the rain, you can tell RIGHT away its not the same vehicle as the AWD. Argue all you want about it, but if I'm driving a bigger, lumbering vehicle, I'm getting all the capeability it does have available. If I want 2WD, its going to be a small, powerfull sports car.

[TL Kelly]

I know this was beat to death but thought I would add a couple cents worth of opinion. My daughter bought an Infiniti G35 Coupe last year and loved the car. Only trouble is its a RWD car with plenty of horsepower. She got it in the Fall and we had a couple light snows soon after and she couldn't go anywhere. She was scared to death driving it. After having this car one year she traded it this year. She bought a Saab 9/3 because it was FWD and she really liked the way it handled and drove. Considering the resale value of a Saab I didn't think it was a good idea but its her decision.

 

I guess where I am going is she lost some $$ and got rid of a car she really liked because she lacked confidence in being able to get around in it.

 

My wife recently bought an '08 Edge and we didn't even discuss whether to go with AWD or FWD, it was a no brainer we were going with AWD. She wanted the confidence to know if she needed the extra traction it was there. I've been driving for 40 years and have owned all sorts of vehicles. AWD gets better traction than FWD on snow or wet roads. I've owned at least one 4WD vehicle for at least the last 20 years and during that time I've pulled dozens of stuck FWD and RWD cars out of the snow. I've yet to pull out an AWD or 4WD vehicle though. My wife's last SUV had a selectable AWD or 4WD system. She used the automatic AWD often in rainy weather. I drove it several times in hard rain in RWD mode and it slipped and hydrplaned. Switched it to the AWD mode and it stuck to the road like glue.

[kevinb120]

Why didn't she get the G35X AWD sedan, costs less then the coupe and slaughters the Saab in every single category, not to mention the grand canyon cliff of Saab resale value? I've lived here 25 years, know just about everything there is to know about cars being in the business, can tell you where you can get a Lotus, Bently, Ferrari, Suzuki, Vespa scooter, or Buell motorcycle, and I have NO clue where to even find a Saab dealer

Edited January 18, 2008 by kevinb120

[gluman]

Why didn't she get the G35X AWD sedan, costs less then the coupe and slaughters the Saab in every single category, not to mention the grand canyon cliff of Saab resale value? I've lived here 25 years, know just about everything there is to know about cars being in the business, can tell you where you can get a Lotus, Bently, Ferrari, Suzuki, Vespa scooter, or Buell motorcycle, and I have NO clue where to even find a Saab dealer

 

I keep one AWD car in our fleet currently the '08 Sienna minivan, so when I bought the edge last year I opted for the fwd. Biggest thing to do is get snows for the winter and the best dual handling tire available for fwd cars. I went with a set of Goodyear Assurance Tripletreads instead of the crappy Hankooks it came with; change over the tires with the seasons and you'll be fine for 98% of all driving conditions. The only thing you'll have to watch out for are the drivers with awd going too fast in poor conditions on all seasons

http://www.fordedgeforum.com/style_images/...icons/icon1.gif

Good luck with the 9-3, we had one for 7 months after my wife wrecked her GTI. That car had the worst torque steer I ever felt. After I gave up bringing it back to the dealer my wife brings it in and tells the service guy her GTI never ended up in the other lane when you accelerated and he replied well this isn't a GTI we traded it in (and took a bath) for a new '04 GTI.

[johnsix54]

AWD totally rocks in the Utah winters as well as the off road camping/hunting. Can you accomplish the same things with a slow cautious thinking person in a well equipped and properly weighted FWD? No, but close. The thing is with AWD it just does what you say, and not what you don't with a larger factor of safety or level of comfort. Here in Utah, there is frequently black ice on overpasses etc, and the AWD just handles it and you never know, whereas those without are the guys you see on the side of the road in the ditch upside down.

 

If you live in Arizona and never go offroad, you probably don't need it. As for me the cost and 2 mpg I give up is totally worth it the first time it snows!

 

:happy feet:

[Freeflyer]

If you live in Montreal there is no questions... AWD... too much snow for a too long period called winter :-(

[Baxter]

Here in NorCal, you really do not need AWD unless you are a skier. CHP frequently restircts the high passes to 4WD and AWD, all else MUST put chains on. The value of drivng up in your warm car and showing you are AWD to get the good-to-go-flag from the CHP officer as you pass many a unhappy traveller in the freezing cold putting on chains is priceless; better yet, the look on the folks waitng to PAY to have someone put chains on (assuming htey even hae chains!) is a true knock on the forehead, I could have had a V-8 moment. It's all about making choices that fit your lifestyle 80% of the time.

Cheers!

[wwest]

I'm puzzled by the popularity of AWD and just thought I'd throw this out for discussion. I ordered a FWD '08 Edge, and personally would never pay the extra initial cost, or incur the lower gas mileage and potential maintence problems that come from a whole extra drive train that is unnecessary.

 

True 4WD, with a low range, on a vehicle designed for off-road makes sense. I have owned 4WD pickups and wouldn't consider buying a truck that wasn't 4WD. But on a vehicle like the Edge or any other vehicle in it's class, AWD is just silly. In over 20 years of driving front wheel drive vehicles in New England winters, including many years when my house was up a mile long steep grade, there hasn't been a single time I needed it.

 

I say good for Ford for offering AWD if it helps them sell cars. They have to, since the competition does. But who really thinks they need it, and why? I know I'm an opinionated old goat, so tell me I'm wrong!

 

"..I'm puzzled..."

 

Don't be.

 

The general public is just now waking up, or being woke up, to the patently UNSAFE nature of FWD. The industry is responding to this "threat" by offering a veritable myriad of F/awd systems many of which are mostly non-functional and there for marketing purposes only.

 

Give me a simple RWD instead of ANY F/awd system any day of the week or time of the year.

 

The Honda/Acura SH-AWD system is the only F/awd system acceptable to me but I don't care for the B747 cockpit nature of the RDX.

[wwest]

Well here's a kick in the ass for you. We ordered a FWD Edge after driving in a friends FWD Limited. Last night during some light sleet our friend slid off the road and totaled his Edge (no one injured). After talking to him today on the phone I immediately called my Ford Dealer and let him know were looking for an AWD instead of the FWD. If he cant locate one locally he'll just change our order. Im figuring that in the next two years ill have small children so the extra bit of sure footed assurance on slippery roads will be good. Who needs AWD? Maybe this guy, who's going to be married and plans to have a family before getting a different vehicle...

 

That's the danger of FWD, engine torque to the VERY same wheels you rely on for stearage is NEVER a good idea.

 

Ask an experienced owner/driver of a RWD/4WD vehicle how they drive on the slippery stuff and they will tell you RWD.

 

Like 4WD, F/awd is virtually PERFECT for getting you up and going initally, but once underway at a decent road speed, >18MPH, any 4WD owner having been around for awhile will tell you to shift into RWD. You can't do that in your FWD, or even your F/awd, so OFF the road you go.

 

Or you could practice quickly shifting your transaxle into neutral (as recommended by the AAA) in the event you find you need to dedicate your front wheel traction totally to directional control, NOT engine leading or lagging torque.

 

Your F/awd Ford Edge WILL NOT help you stay out of that ditch, only a RWD or R/awd system can help you with that problem.

 

Unless you remove one front halfshaft and apply a constant 12 volts to the rear driveline clutch, that is.

Edited June 16, 2009 by wwest

[wwest]

I keep one AWD car in our fleet currently the '08 Sienna minivan, so when I bought the edge last year I opted for the fwd. Biggest thing to do is get snows for the winter and the best dual handling tire available for fwd cars. I went with a set of Goodyear Assurance Tripletreads instead of the crappy Hankooks it came with; change over the tires with the seasons and you'll be fine for 98% of all driving conditions. The only thing you'll have to watch out for are the drivers with awd going too fast in poor conditions on all seasons

http://www.fordedgeforum.com/style_images/...icons/icon1.gif

Good luck with the 9-3, we had one for 7 months after my wife wrecked her GTI. That car had the worst torque steer I ever felt. After I gave up bringing it back to the dealer my wife brings it in and tells the service guy her GTI never ended up in the other lane when you accelerated and he replied well this isn't a GTI we traded it in (and took a bath) for a new '04 GTI.

 

I'm surprised that you class the Sienna as AWD. The Sienna has an optional F/awd system that is there ONLY for marketing purposes. With three fully open diff'ls, front , center, and rear, it is only, really, a ONE WHEEL drive system. Public outcry has now resulted in the availability of a PB control to disable TC, your Sienna's (and Highlander, AND RX330/350) ONLY backup for the ONE WHEEL drive system.

 

What does that tell you...??

[wwest]

Here in NorCal, you really do not need AWD unless you are a skier. CHP frequently restircts the high passes to 4WD and AWD, all else MUST put chains on. The value of drivng up in your warm car and showing you are AWD to get the good-to-go-flag from the CHP officer as you pass many a unhappy traveller in the freezing cold putting on chains is priceless; better yet, the look on the folks waitng to PAY to have someone put chains on (assuming htey even hae chains!) is a true knock on the forehead, I could have had a V-8 moment. It's all about making choices that fit your lifestyle 80% of the time.

Cheers!

 

Sorry, it's the 1% times I have the most concern about.

 

My '01 F/awd RX300 runs on nice and quite, comfortably riding, summer use only BridgeStone Turanzas throughout the year. One set of tire chains are ALWAYS on board for the REAR, and a second set in the wintertime to add on the front. I NEVER hesitate to install tire chains when and if needed.

[fordfan102]

LOL. Love this intense debate. As an extreme auto guy, I will have to add my 2 cents in to this topic. I have lived between the Northwest and Northcentral part of the U.S. for life (again, many many years) near the Canadian border in easily some of the most brutal winters this country has to offer. I know this may touch a nerve with some, but it is a fact: If you cannot drive with FWD you should not be on the road. If you need the personal 'feel better' purchase of the AWD for the large sum of $2000 plus, that is perfectly acceptable. However, AWD does very little in improving driving ability of a vehicle over a FWD vehicle. You need to drive for the conditions. AWD might help you get rolling a second or two earlier from a stoplight or a stopped position, but that is about it. $2000 for this feature is a major upsell by the auto industry similar to how concession stands at movie theatres upsell popcorn and soft drinks. A great 'feel good' feature, but certainly not respectable to the price for the product. 4WD vehicles..... certainly yes.... very worth the money. AWD vehicles... 100 percent not worth it unless money is no object and $2000 can be thrown around with no hesitation. As for resale, nope. AWD will do for resale value the same as FWD will do for resale..... book value of the vehicle at time of sale or trade in respect to price paid for vehicle at at initial purchase. AWD is NOT going to give you some magic increase in value over other FWD vehicles. You paid more for that feature when buying it so you might get a little more when trading it. I have owned a couple AWD vehicles most recently my last 2008 Ford Edge (wife wanted the AWD). After loving the Edge for 2 years we have traded it for a new 2010 Ford Edge FWD. We have noticed absolutely NO improvements in handling. The FWD performs just as nice as our AWD did, other than being able to start at one or two split seconds earlier from a stopped position in extremely icy conditions. My wife is a very conservative and nervous driver (and yes we have small children that ride in it) and even she admitted there isn't any difference at all from our previous AWD Edge and our new FWD Edge. She finally believes me that we didn't need to waste the $2000 on the AWD upsell feature and are happy to use that huge amount of money towards other great things. Also, a few miles per gallon less driving and a huge probability of additional maintenance problems/costs for the AWD mechanical system just no way in heck it's worth it. The good thing about upsells though, is that they are available to those that need the 'feel good' feature and have lots of extra money to spend.

[Gummy]

I love knowing that if I need the AWD, it's there. We got some serious snowstorms last winter that I was really glad that I had it. Especially when you're a long way from home.

[flyerjmr33]

I love knowing that if I need the AWD, it's there. We got some serious snowstorms last winter that I was really glad that I had it. Especially when you're a long way from home.

 

Having grown up in NY and after living in Kansas City and Milwaukee, the only advantage of having AWD is that it will help to get you going but won't help you stop.

I used to travel over 60K miles a year and have been in some really serious snow and ice conditions. All with rear wheel drive and never really had any problems as long as my driving was sane. Once or twice I let things get a little crazy and did some fancy skidding-- but never was stuck anywhere. When I got my first FWD car in '86, I thought I was in hog heaven in the snow.

Each system has advantages and disadvantages. I think it's great that we have a choice and will not knock whatever someone else decides is best for themselves! :happy feet:

[MOFSTEEL]

LOL. Love this intense debate. As an extreme auto guy, I will have to add my 2 cents in to this topic. I have lived between the Northwest and Northcentral part of the U.S. for life (again, many many years) near the Canadian border in easily some of the most brutal winters this country has to offer. I know this may touch a nerve with some, but it is a fact: If you cannot drive with FWD you should not be on the road. If you need the personal 'feel better' purchase of the AWD for the large sum of $2000 plus, that is perfectly acceptable. However, AWD does very little in improving driving ability of a vehicle over a FWD vehicle. You need to drive for the conditions. AWD might help you get rolling a second or two earlier from a stoplight or a stopped position, but that is about it. $2000 for this feature is a major upsell by the auto industry similar to how concession stands at movie theatres upsell popcorn and soft drinks. A great 'feel good' feature, but certainly not respectable to the price for the product. 4WD vehicles..... certainly yes.... very worth the money. AWD vehicles... 100 percent not worth it unless money is no object and $2000 can be thrown around with no hesitation. As for resale, nope. AWD will do for resale value the same as FWD will do for resale..... book value of the vehicle at time of sale or trade in respect to price paid for vehicle at at initial purchase. AWD is NOT going to give you some magic increase in value over other FWD vehicles. You paid more for that feature when buying it so you might get a little more when trading it. I have owned a couple AWD vehicles most recently my last 2008 Ford Edge (wife wanted the AWD). After loving the Edge for 2 years we have traded it for a new 2010 Ford Edge FWD. We have noticed absolutely NO improvements in handling. The FWD performs just as nice as our AWD did, other than being able to start at one or two split seconds earlier from a stopped position in extremely icy conditions. My wife is a very conservative and nervous driver (and yes we have small children that ride in it) and even she admitted there isn't any difference at all from our previous AWD Edge and our new FWD Edge. She finally believes me that we didn't need to waste the $2000 on the AWD upsell feature and are happy to use that huge amount of money towards other great things. Also, a few miles per gallon less driving and a huge probability of additional maintenance problems/costs for the AWD mechanical system just no way in heck it's worth it. The good thing about upsells though, is that they are available to those that need the 'feel good' feature and have lots of extra money to spend.

 

You sir are completely and 150% wrong.

You need to do some more research and im not talking about driving around the block with your wife on a rainy day.

Edited November 15, 2009 by MOFSTEEL

[flyerjmr33]

You sir and completely and 150% wrong.

You need to do some more research and im not talking about driving around the block with your wife on a rainy day.

 

According to the Kelly Blue Book trade in value. ---- You get $1025 more for the AWD than for the FWD using 35,000 miles and a north NJ zip code on an '08 model. That cost you approx. 1000 bucks for a 2 winter usage. You possibly could have attained 2 winters out of it by buying it just as the model year changed in '07.

[MOFSTEEL]

According to the Kelly Blue Book trade in value. ---- You get $1025 more for the AWD than for the FWD using 35,000 miles and a north NJ zip code on an '08 model. That cost you approx. 1000 bucks for a 2 winter usage. You possibly could have attained 2 winters out of it by buying it just as the model year changed in '07.

 

What does that have to do with his lack of knowledge of AWD vs. FWD and my post?

[flyerjmr33]

What does that have to do with his lack of knowledge of AWD vs. FWD and my post?

 

Seems to me that he was posting some cost factors and being that you didn't specify exactly what he was lacking in knowledge it kinda left it open, didn't it?

[MOFSTEEL]

Seems to me that he was posting some cost factors and being that you didn't specify exactly what he was lacking in knowledge it kinda left it open, didn't it?

 

 

Seems to me I referenced driving.

 

So looks like your answer to my post was irrelevant. Apology accepted.

[weasel]

my 2 cents:

 

I am one of the chosen few with a job title that has "essential services" in teeny letters below it. Having driven RWD and FWD when we chose to buy our Edge there was not much debate. After a couple of really bad winters, the next vehicle would either be 4WD or AWD. Not much is going to slow down AWD with 4 snow tires on it.