Navigation Upgrades

[Kwmck]

I have 2012 Edge LTD, Sync Gen2 V3.6.2, (installed Sept 2013 - OK) & Navteq Maps SD Card Level A4 (Received from Navteq &installed Jan 2013-OK). I inquired through MyFord about updates to Navigation, and that took me to Navteq, HELP Maps, and the following;

 

Thank you for inquiring about HERE Maps. Currently, Ford and Lincoln do utilize our map (Navteq) databases; however, we do not produce or distribute updates for the 2012 Edge at this time. For information, please contact Ford at 866-344-2916 option 1.

 

Does anyone know of the update process for Navigation that goes beyond the above action?

[FordIVTteam]

I have 2012 Edge LTD, Sync Gen2 V3.6.2, (installed Sept 2013 - OK) & Navteq Maps SD Card Level A4 (Received from Navteq &installed Jan 2013-OK). I inquired through MyFord about updates to Navigation, and that took me to Navteq, HELP Maps, and the following;

 

Thank you for inquiring about HERE Maps. Currently, Ford and Lincoln do utilize our map (Navteq) databases; however, we do not produce or distribute updates for the 2012 Edge at this time. For information, please contact Ford at 866-344-2916 option 1.

 

Does anyone know of the update process for Navigation that goes beyond the above action?

 

Hi Kwmck,

 

There aren't any map updates available for the MyFord Touch platform at this time. Although Navteq supports the updating process and procedures, I can at least confirm that there is no update to pursue currently. I'm not entirely sure that the availability is based on model, as Navteq's website prompt infers, but I can confirm that if your vehicle is running v3.6.2 software then you have the latest and greatest form of your system.

[Kwmck]

 

Hi Kwmck,

 

There aren't any map updates available for the MyFord Touch platform at this time. Although Navteq supports the updating process and procedures, I can at least confirm that there is no update to pursue currently. I'm not entirely sure that the availability is based on model, as Navteq's website prompt infers, but I can confirm that if your vehicle is running v3.6.2 software then you have the latest and greatest form of your system.

Yes I do have the latest software, that being v3.6.2. What I am interested in is the update 'Cycle' for the SD (navigation) Card. As I indicated, I have SD-A4 Card which was issued in Jan/Feb 2013. Navteq, Ford or whoever supplies the update's must have a update cycle, which includes new streets, highway's and the like. Yearly? Every 2 years??

[akirby]

Typically every 2 years - $200.

[Tacyon]

... and that is why Garmin wins. $90.00 for lifetime and updates 4 times / year.

 

Well that and the fact that Sync doesn't know how to navigate to a fire number street address (rural areas) Like 37W135 Som St, Any Town.

 

But .. I can't talk to my Nuvi.

[FordIVTteam]

Yes I do have the latest software, that being v3.6.2. What I am interested in is the update 'Cycle' for the SD (navigation) Card. As I indicated, I have SD-A4 Card which was issued in Jan/Feb 2013. Navteq, Ford or whoever supplies the update's must have a update cycle, which includes new streets, highway's and the like. Yearly? Every 2 years??

 

Hi Kwmck,

 

akirby is correct, Navteq typically churns out a new database every 1 1/2 to two years.

 

Antonio

[cv27]

I personally am not comfortable with updates every 2 years. I find it difficult to think anyone traveling enough to use Nav would not run across a new or repositioned street or highway, a new development, etc.

 

The Ford/Navteq design approach to updates relies on an all encompassing set on an SD card. In the dream world, a better design could have included differential updates a user can download, put on a USB stick or SD card himself and update the system on a more frequent basis. After all, Navteq claims "We keep our maps fresh, accurate and reliable by making 2.7 million changes to them every day"

 

The other point is the $200 tag for an update, seriously? Would be interesting to know the Ford-Navteq split of revenue... Last I checked, Garmin isn't doing too bad at $90 lifetime; but they do have another source of revenue: the device.

[akirby]

It isn't Ford - the other mfrs have similar arrangements with map providers. I don't think Ford gets anything from the updates - they have to pay Navteq for the map data up front.

 

The $200 fee was for the DVD updates - we haven't seen the price for the SD card version yet. It might be cheaper and/or more frequent.

 

We've had 2 vehicles with Navigation that we kept over 5 years and we never updated the maps. Unless you frequently use the Nav in new areas I don't think it's a priority and most people probably don't ever update their maps.

 

Maybe now that they're using SD cards they can allow digital downloads with an annual subscription.

[drpepper]

What we know for sure:.. MFT/MLT launched ~9/2010. It is now 1/2014 & there has NEVER BEEN an official map update to purchase & no official info on timing & price of any future updates. So yes- that is a BAD mark against the big co. But why ? Well maybe, partially due to below...

 

Due to the many issues since launch of MFT/MLT - as an overall system- owners started with an original nav card, received a new one when the major 3.0 update occurred & now have received a 2nd SD card - A-4 from the last updates ( current version 3.6). As stated there has not been one officially to buy yet.... 3 + years later

 

Most owners have voiced an opinion that $200 is not a fair price (anymore) for map updates & is WAY too High. As Akirby mentioned, the $200 structure stems way back to the DVD era & many owners think is REALLY not accurate for the future.... but if Ford chooses to stick it to the customers on an older pricing strategy- it will be seen as that!!!

 

This has become especially more relevant as more owners over the past 5-10 + years have progressed from no phone, to dumb phone, to smart phone. EVERY smart phone has access to the map/nav option & if not the driver- surely one of the passengers has one. So the need to pay an outdated pricing model has passed & as others mentioned $99 stand alone GPS's that have built in many times a year map updates for much cheaper also shows where a true price structure should lie vs. what a car company may WANT to charge & then be perceived as the bad guy!!

Edited January 12, 2014 by drpepper

[akirby]

Ford doesn't sell the map updates - Navteq does. If you have a problem with their pricing take it up with them.

 

As for no official map update to purchase - that's because Ford GAVE you one for FREE. Two actually - A3 that came in the mail and A4 that was offered free last year. So you now have the latest version at no additional charge.

 

I guess some people just aren't happy unless they're griping about something.

[drpepper]

I thought I was stating a time line & normal expectations from a BIG company...

YOU mentioned the price thrown around is the older dvd model. I saw that as an item to comment on. And yes if no documentation after 3 years - IT IS NOT A POSITIVE! Sorry...

 

If the MFT roll out was not such a mess - where - yes - Ford supplied 2 nav cards-- as part of the FIXING/stabilizing the MFT system...an owner would EXPECT after 3 years of vehicle release that there would be SOME documentation on the EXPECTATION of what an owner would have at there disposal as far as time intervals for updates & a pricing model.

As you STATED the $200 is the old DVD model & we have not been presented a new model- if any- for the SD cards. I neither praised ford for the A-3 & A-4 nor gripped on them for providing. Please!!

I just said simply after 3 years there is no official paperwork & that is not NORMAL for a any big company- Ford or Navteq!

 

Ford sells car-Ford upsells price of car with built in Nav -Ford contracts with Nav Teq . I guess mod is not happy unless your praise Ford every chance you get!! If Ford has a business partner that is not aware of the changing environment & what vehicle owners needs are ---Than YES Ford will have issues....

I really do not get your reply.... You stated YOU did not spend the MONEY to get updates after more than 5 years. Many here feel the $200 is WAY over the top for any perceived value. Many ask what is the time line. You get well usually this time but no official word type ... replies. MY point, as many others, Meet an expectation to succeed. Lower the price or engage with a better business partner to lower price - Else potential customers follow your lead - Find no value or do not spend $ even if we did find value,,,

 

I am probable in your camp- I have the most current nav card after 3 years ownership- I have smart phone- I have passengers that have smart phones- I have friends that have portable navs with cheap or free updates... and I can still print a google map or mapquest map destination before getting into vehicle....If there was a reasonable price for update- sure what the heck... but at $200- Na- lost sale!!! That is not gripping!

 

 

 

I

Edited January 12, 2014 by drpepper

[akirby]

You still don't get it. If you were navteq, what would be the point of putting out an updated SD map card for MFT vehicles when every mft vehicle just got a new A4 version a few months ago? Who's going to buy one now? I'm sure they'll offer something in another year or so when people actually might need to buy a new one.

 

My other gripe is that you're complaining about FORD selling the updates for $200. It has nothing to do with Ford - it's navteq and it's the same for other mfrs not just Ford.

 

But of course you'll take every opportunity to badmouth Ford even when it's totally misdirected.

[Kwmck]

Buyer beware! Ford’s marketing plan was to push the envelope as to what the Next Generation of included electronics will be. My Ford Touch, Ford Sync and the included Navigation system were the result of this initiative. Clearly they did not have an understanding of the issues in this field, as witnessed by their forced workarounds and updates to My Ford Touch and Sync to get it working for the masses. The upgrade to My Ford Touch & Ford Sync forced them to supply the SD-4 Card as an update to the Navigation system or the Navigation system would have been rendered useless; thus a poor marketing tool. The SD-4 card was not a freebie as they would like you to believe. It was a repair to a system that did not work from the get-go. Navteq / HELP maps claims to have no current plans to update the Navigation database, and that the owner’s of Ford vehicles with the navigation system should contact Ford for information.

I would have expected to see included updates for the warranty period of the vehicle. I paid for that!

[wlepse]

You still don't get it. If you were navteq, what would be the point of putting out an updated SD map card for MFT vehicles when every mft vehicle just got a new A4 version a few months ago? Who's going to buy one now? I'm sure they'll offer something in another year or so when people actually might need to buy a new one.

 

My other gripe is that you're complaining about FORD selling the updates for $200. It has nothing to do with Ford - it's navteq and it's the same for other mfrs not just Ford.

 

But of course you'll take every opportunity to badmouth Ford even when it's totally misdirected.

 

... and that is why Garmin wins. $90.00 for lifetime and updates 4 times / year.

 

Well that and the fact that Sync doesn't know how to navigate to a fire number street address (rural areas) Like 37W135 Som St, Any Town.

 

But .. I can't talk to my Nuvi.

I can't talk to my MFT either. Once in a blue moon it will get it right but so rarely I only try to use when I have to. It is so bad that my 3yo ends up asking me why I am yelling at the car. Yet voice recognition on my phone for texts,nav etc works 97% of the time.

 

You still don't get it. If you were navteq, what would be the point of putting out an updated SD map card for MFT vehicles when every mft vehicle just got a new A4 version a few months ago? Who's going to buy one now? I'm sure they'll offer something in another year or so when people actually might need to buy a new one.

 

My other gripe is that you're complaining about FORD selling the updates for $200. It has nothing to do with Ford - it's navteq and it's the same for other mfrs not just Ford.

 

But of course you'll take every opportunity to badmouth Ford even when it's totally misdirected.

Not sure what you are saying is entirely true. Typically when two companies work like this....they have a contract that not only states what the upfront costs are but also what the continued revenue stream would be. I would suspect it also covers what the MSRP for updates will be. That price ensures both parties get some profit. Now with MFT Ford may be controlling this price even more as the data needs to be configured to the software as we have seen with previous updates. So I think it is disingenuous to say they do not have a say in price.

[akirby]

Buyer beware! Ford’s marketing plan was to push the envelope as to what the Next Generation of included electronics will be. My Ford Touch, Ford Sync and the included Navigation system were the result of this initiative. Clearly they did not have an understanding of the issues in this field, as witnessed by their forced workarounds and updates to My Ford Touch and Sync to get it working for the masses. The upgrade to My Ford Touch & Ford Sync forced them to supply the SD-4 Card as an update to the Navigation system or the Navigation system would have been rendered useless; thus a poor marketing tool. The SD-4 card was not a freebie as they would like you to believe. It was a repair to a system that did not work from the get-go. Navteq / HELP maps claims to have no current plans to update the Navigation database, and that the owner’s of Ford vehicles with the navigation system should contact Ford for information.

I would have expected to see included updates for the warranty period of the vehicle. I paid for that!

 

I did not say that Ford gave away the SD-4 card out of the goodness of their heart. Of course it was part of an upgrade to fix bugs. That wasn't the point. The point was that he was complaining that neither Ford nor Navteq were selling map updates right now. And my point was that regardless of why the SD-4 cards were sent to everyone, almost nobody would be looking to buy an upgrade for the next year or so. Therefore it would be silly for Navteq to go to the trouble of producing an update that nobody would buy until next year.

 

The navteq website says that I already have the latest map data and to check back later. It would be silly to think that they won't offer an update at some point in the future when it's economically viable for them.

[akirby]

Not sure what you are saying is entirely true. Typically when two companies work like this....they have a contract that not only states what the upfront costs are but also what the continued revenue stream would be. I would suspect it also covers what the MSRP for updates will be. That price ensures both parties get some profit. Now with MFT Ford may be controlling this price even more as the data needs to be configured to the software as we have seen with previous updates. So I think it is disingenuous to say they do not have a say in price.

 

I don't know that's typical - there are many different contract arrangments. Navteq owns the map data and Ford pays them to license it for every new vehicle that comes with maps. That part is clear. It's also clear that Navteq owns producing map updates which they currently sell directly to the consumer. It is possible that Ford negotiated a profit sharing arrangement with Navteq on future updates and it's possible they negotiated the price of those updates. But if I was Ford and I was giving Navteq exclusive supplier rights I would negotiate the lowest possible licensing costs per vehicle up front and let Navteq keep the upgrade profits which would be tiny by comparison. Ford doesn't have to put a cap on what Navteq would charge - the free market already does that and right now it's $200. The fact that it seems to be $200 for other auto mfrs is further confirmation that this is an industry standard and not just a Ford thing.

 

It's also possible that Ford is planning to sell the updated maps going forward. It's hard to say at this point because every MFT vehicle has current maps and this is a new contract between Ford and Navteq.

[Waldo]

Navteq and Ford certainly have a contractual agreement over the price and distribution of updates. Though Navteq owns the data, the formatting and protocol of the data is owned by Ford, so neither can sell an update without consent from the other. Navteq actually wanted to lower the price in order to generate more business for themselves, but Ford did not allow it and kept the price high. Might be different going forward with the SD cards though.

Edited January 16, 2014 by Waldo

[RJG]

Maybe Ford plans to give us a new one soon. Some recent roads I was on were not on my map. Fortunately....was able to figure out where I was until NAV figured it out.

[akirby]

Navteq and Ford certainly have a contractual agreement over the price and distribution of updates. Though Navteq owns the data, the formatting and protocol of the data is owned by Ford, so neither can sell an update without consent from the other. Navteq actually wanted to lower the price in order to generate more business for themselves, but Ford did not allow it and kept the price high. Might be different going forward with the SD cards though.

 

Interesting. I would have thought Navteq would have had more control than that. I guess when the mfr makes you their sole supplier they have a lot more leverage.

[drpepper]

 

The point was that he was complaining that neither Ford nor Navteq were selling map updates right now.

WRONG!!! I was pointing out that after 3+ years after release of the 1st MFT/MLT vehicle --- the utter LACK of any POLICY or PROCEDURE on the subject.

Yes- We got 2 new cards as stated to assist in FIXING the TROUBLED system. There is no official documentation of the normal expected interval of update & the normal - at the time - expected price. Just guesses!. And as you said the OLD price point of $200 just sticks around to see what limited audience still will PAY!

 

Then there is the fact that no updates to the lack of procedures - for example- nothing to state in lieu of the present A-4 distribution ....our next card is now pushed back & is expected to be x & the price is x ......

Lets not forget my other "gripe" as you call it. A $60 Sync service that morphed to $199 for Lincoln & we have no base option of $60 to select. FORD is not to be PRAISED for that. . SO PLEASE stop waving the flag on Ford. You stated you wouldn't buy the $200 price point map update ....SO are the feelings of so many OTHERS!!! At that price point just buy a Garmen & suction it over the MFT. Or as stated USE WHAT YOU ALREADY HAVE- your phone or a passengers phone!

.

[drpepper]

Navteq and Ford certainly have a contractual agreement over the price and distribution of updates. Though Navteq owns the data, the formatting and protocol of the data is owned by Ford, so neither can sell an update without consent from the other. Navteq actually wanted to lower the price in order to generate more business for themselves, but Ford did not allow it and kept the price high. Might be different going forward with the SD cards though.

YES THANKS !!! That is my point & so many others.... FORD did not ALLOW... at least you have the respect of not getting called out like I would for saying it.

I do not WANT to bash Ford every change I get. I want it to work on 1st or 2nd attempt not 14th & then not have it work due to dumming it down.. Where is my direct input of GPS lat/Long that was taken away?

As stated I would buy an update to nav but not get raped on price- I would buy the sync service but not get bamboozeled into a price 3 times higher then previously stated 199 vs 60 & the service not fully work to boot.

And why would I buy an update- I actually like the nav & have it work well most of the time!! That is why I want the Send to Sync feature to work in sync services to send to my Nav in car but it doesn't work via mapquest for IE 11,10,9 & has been months just to get Ford to acknowledge that.

Edited January 17, 2014 by drpepper

[akirby]

Based on past experience you should expect to pay $200 every 2 years for map upgrades. That's what it's been for Ford and other mfrs for years now. If it ends up being more than that then you can complain.

 

Why aren't you using Firefox with mapquest? It was reported to work perfectly every time. Because then you wouldn't be able to complain about it.

 

Your complaints would be better received if you weren't such a drama queen.

[drpepper]

"Why aren't you using Firefox with MapQuest " "Drama Queen" Thanks MOD- I hear that in one direction....

Let me offer another style that may be more please to all.....

I know you may use IE 11 especially since your work lap may have that installed by your IT dept. but if you can, you may want to try Firefox since -as you pointed out -it may be awhile before Ford resolves the issue- maybe you can try on your home computer first . Many have reported very positive results...At least this may offer a stop gap measure...

I fully understand your frustration of seeing a system go through so much growing pains.... I get that price is import to you as it is to many owners ....

 

OK I call truce on the tones... Doesn't help us consumers get a good working product at a fair price with no bad surprises...

May I direct back to first post.. why this thread is here in first place..owner received an unclear message & misdirection from the 2 sources Ford & Navtec..... Then told typically this is what happens by posts Then told price higher then most 3rd party options but maybe not car dealers & a price is based on an older pricing model..then told it hasn't been fully decided & firmed up yet from the official sources..( yes we know why but they never spelled that out on their web sites for all to understand) ..then left with the $200 is the price- deal with it & complain if higher. I see a valid option to complain NOW that it should NOT be set at THAT price & should be lower & stated why... Your input was that you wouldn't & haven't bought at that price point... So I hope you are wrong that Ford/Navtec sticks with the approach of we will tell you when we have one & here is the old price model take it or leave it.

[akirby]

This is what I don't understand. You're complaining that Ford/Navteq can't tell you TODAY exactly when the next map upgrade will be out or how much it will cost. That's because the current map card is, well, current. There isn't a new one available and every mft owner has the new one already (at no additional charge). There shouldn't be a new one for at least a year, maybe two.

 

It's like asking Ford what the base price will be on the 2016 Edge and exactly what date it will be released and then getting pissed off when they won't tell you.

 

I see a valid option to complain NOW that it should NOT be set at THAT price & should be lower & stated why

 

Since when do you as a consumer have any right to demand or dictate the price that a company chooses to charge for it's goods and services? Where in the documentation on your Edge does it even guarantee you'll get future map updates or what they will cost? You're at the mercy of the map provider whether it's Ford, Navteq or both combined. And that's the same for every auto mfr as far as I know.

 

You think you have some right to demand which features Ford offers or doesn't offer and what price they charge and that's ridiculous. If Ford doesn't want to support lat/long destinations - that's their call. If the send to sync feature doesn't work and they either can't or won't fix it, but you still have the ability to enter a destination 2 other ways - that's their call. If they choose to charge $199 for Lincoln sync services and $60 for Ford sync services - then you decide whether you want to pay it or not.

 

It's one thing to say you're disappointed and you hope Ford changes it. It's another to demand it the way you seem to do even with the smallest issues.

[drpepper]

Customer is always right! Sad world when the expected view is that you are at the mercy of.... There are always options....

 

I do expect & I do receive. When I do not- I do raise my concerns & give ample time to correct. The goal is to get the issues resolved. Frustration is when it is easier to send remediation then resolve issue. That has happened on several occasions.

 

You are free to think a customer has no right- I think differently! Customers have every right to expect a working product and expect every reasonable effort be made to fix an issue with out creating more issues and not just stop at -well that is good enough.

 

Good news. I will be ending these posts. I lost. The price is not reduced for Sync Services nor the issues on sending the destinations to the built in nav.

 

Free market can decide price- so can haggling. I do have another year of Sync services on them. I have every right!