Synthetic Oil

[Good_Hands]

I thought you gave up drinking long ago?

 

I did.

 

:yup:

[Scott S]

I exclusively run Amsoil in my Arctic Cat ZR-900. Approx 160 HP and 115 lbs of torque. I use their Interceptor 2 stroke oil, Series 2000 chaincase oil and their water resistant grease and I'll tell you the stuff is amazing. There are not many applications tougher than a sled for giving oils and greases a workout. My 9 is at 3800 miles and has seen quite a few passes on the track with no failures yet. It is normal for a top end at 3-4000 miles but my compression has not changed since new.

 

It may cost a tad more but in maintenance I've saved lots.

 

I had a Polaris 98 600 triple that drank Amsoil and when I sold it with 6000 miles on the odo she was like new with compression within a few lbs of new. It has been gone two years now but the new owner has not had a failure yet either.

 

Buddies run it in everything, same results.

 

The Edge will go on an AMS diet once she is good and broken in. The only downside is they should not be used during break in on most things as they do not allow enough wear for components to mate.

Edited October 23, 2007 by Scott S

[jlkansascity]

Be sure and get a copy of Amsoil's warranty, since you will be out of Ford warranty for lubrication related issues after 7,500 miles.

 

Grey, that's just not true. Manufacturers cannot void, or avoid, a warranty due to brand of oil you use. If the oil meets manufacturer stated specifications, you're fine to use it.

 

*Check this link for a detailed explanation of "Warranties and Amsoil"

*Check this link to go to the Amsoil warranty on Amsoil.com

*Click this link to see an explanation of the Magnuson-Moss Act, which was passed in 1975 and prohibits manufacturers from requiring a specific brand. This informational page also discusses the fact that extended drain intervals can, in and of themselves, compromise a warranty.

 

Also, STEEDA, the Ford performance company, is actually an Amsoil Dealer. Really! Check out their site.

 

JL

Edited October 15, 2009 by jlkansascity

[jlkansascity]

I'm trying to figure out where you would use the 5W-30 Amsoil. It doesn't meet the Ford Spec for the MKX or Edge.

 

Virtually all oils have tracers in them so manufacturers/refiners know if it was their product or not, if there is a problem.

 

The Amsoil 0W20 and the Motorcraft 5W20 have close to the same viscosity at 40 and 100 degrees C.

The 5W30 Amsoil is way too thick for our engines - 10.6 vs. 8.8 at 100 degrees C. and 57.3 vs. 49 at 40 Degrees C.

 

I like the idea of a 0W20, especially in colder climates, to reduce start-up wear. But contrary to popular belief, thicker oil at running temps is not a good idea. Pressure does not = lubrication.

Flow = lubrication. Oil is also part of the cooling system for our engines. Restrict flow and add heat.

 

The engine lubrication engineers at Ford were some of the smartest people I have met. I'm going with their recommendations.

 

The actual oil recommended by Ford, reading directly from my 2007 Ford Edge owners manual;

Use a SAE 5W-20 that meets Ford Specification WSS-M2C930-A. If you look on Amsoil's Online Product Application Guide, they list 3 options for a 2007 Ford Edge.

-- 0W-20

--5W-20

--"Signature Series" 0W-20

 

All three options meet the Ford WSS-M2C930-A specification; it says right on the oil.

 

To go directly to the online Amsoil Product Application Guide, click this link.

 

JL

[jlkansascity]

I did some quick reading about Amsoil - I must say, I am impressed. My Mazda used straight non-synthetic oil so for the last 3 years, I have been uninterested in synthetic oils.

 

I will ask though - Grey has a good point. Even though the Amsoil can go longer than 7500 miles, will you change at that interval just to keep the warranty in tact?

 

Good_Hands;

Extended drain intervals can't, by themselves, void a warranty. Please review my other posts for links. However, Amsoil has responded to the fact that many individuals aren't comfortable with extended drain intervals, and that's why Amsoil launched their "XL" series, which Amsoil recommends for 6 month or 7,500 mile drain intervals. It also meets the Ford WSS-M2C930-A spec, mentioned in your Ford Edge owners manual.

 

Here's a link to the oil I'm referencing.

 

Let me know if there are any other questions you might have.

JL

[Grey]

The actual oil recommended by Ford, reading directly from my 2007 Ford Edge owners manual;

Use a SAE 5W-20 that meets Ford Specification WSS-M2C930-A. If you look on Amsoil's Online Product Application Guide, they list 3 options for a 2007 Ford Edge.

-- 0W-20

--5W-20

--"Signature Series" 0W-20

 

All three options meet the Ford WSS-M2C930-A specification; it says right on the oil.

 

To go directly to the online Amsoil Product Application Guide, click this link.

 

JL

 

Are you challenging my stand on 5W30 oil by saying the 5W20 meets the specification?

 

I don't care what a supplier says about their oil meeting a specification -- if you have a lubrication related failure, it is almost always owner responsibility. Look back at some of my earlier threads. If you are going to use products that don't meet the Ford specs, or don't maintain according to the Ford schedules, get your lubrication warranty coverage from your product supplier.

[akirby]

Are you challenging my stand on 5W30 oil by saying the 5W20 meets the specification?

 

I don't care what a supplier says about their oil meeting a specification -- if you have a lubrication related failure, it is almost always owner responsibility. Look back at some of my earlier threads. If you are going to use products that don't meet the Ford specs, or don't maintain according to the Ford schedules, get your lubrication warranty coverage from your product supplier.

 

I don't think he saw the 5w-30 reference in your original post. Or maybe he thought it changed in the 2 years since you posted it.

[BlazedUp]

Why would you want a heavier weight oil at operating temp ? Reduces gas mileage and makes the engine work harder.

[Grey]

Why would you want a heavier weight oil at operating temp ? Reduces gas mileage and makes the engine work harder.

 

In addition, the cooling system is designed to work in conjunction with oil flow at operating temperatures. When you mistakenly equate oil pressure with lubrication, you can affect other operating systems. Remember, Flow = lubrication.

 

When Ford (and Honda) settled on 5W20 motor oil, with a cSt value of 8 to 9 at 212 degrees F, they also designed the oil passages, pump, filtration and cooling systems with that cSt value as a benchmark. It is more correct to consided that oil thickens as it cools (not that it thins as it gets hotter), because the engine was designed to operate at 212 degrees F with an oil at a precise cSt value.

 

If you want to improve on the oil recommendation from the manufacturer, go to a full synthetic 5W20 or 0W20 that meets the Ford spec. after the engine is past the break-in period (approx. 3000 miles.) Both of these options will have the correct values at running temperature and help reduce wear at start-up.

 

Decades ago, the engines were affected by ambient temperatures, ie. they ran hotter in the summer than in the winter months. Thus, manufacturers often prescribed heavier weight oils in the hotter months. Now that operating temperatures are controlled year round, for emissions, etc. the oil weight should not be adjusted for seasons.

[k_m]

For those who are interested check out this link..... http://www.amsoil.com/comparison/motor-oil.aspx Of course Amsoil will get top ranks (juts by looking at the link its obvious) however the charts are good in comparing Motorcraft SynBlend, Valvoline, Pennz, M1 Extended & Quaker State and others.

 

Hope this helps.

[Grey]

A comparison of motor oils that have nothing to do with meeting the Ford spec. for our vehicles doesn't help. But do whatever you want. It's your engine and your responsibility.

[k_m]

A comparison of motor oils that have nothing to do with meeting the Ford spec. for our vehicles doesn't help. But do whatever you want. It's your engine and your responsibility.

 

Please explain. From my understanding Amsoil, M1, PP, QS, Valvoline, etc... all meet or exceed Ford's specs. My goal is to protect the engine from cold starts, normal drive [city/hwy], towing, etc while following the recommended 7,500 mi oil & filter change. I see that the Motorcraft Blend is fairly ranked [or at least in the study from Amsoil site] however from reading most posts here some say I would be fine with it as long as I meet/follow Ford's guidelines w/ an 7,500 mi oil & filter change under normal use or Special Operating Conditions: 5,000 miles, 6 months, or 200 hours of engine operation .

 

Blend could be anything from 2% synthetic to 70%+ synthetic. So what data/aspects should I look for? How will I know if Motorcraft's blend will offer me the protection I am looking for? Its simple to say trust in Ford's engineers [which I do to an extent] However, why did they change the oil filter on the late 2009 early 2010 from fl400s to fl500s [was it a flaw in their design]? The engine is the same the oil is the same so why the change?

 

My reason for looking towards "full synthetics" is due to their claim of protection and ability to last for an "extended" period of time. Even though, I will be performing an 7,500 mi routine change, I would like to know that if my conditions change from optimal to "Special operating conditions" I will be protected. Now I am aware that I could just decide to stick with the MotorCraft and do my oil changes at 5,000 mi [which is not entirely that bad of an option]

 

[Note: I have learned tons form your posts as well as bbf2530, ClubwagonXLT, & many others. I am simply looking for the "best" method to take care of the vehicle. Moreover, I am sure the Ford engineers know what they are talking about, yet they do not make the oil nor the filters. These items are from external sources w/ a Motorcraft logo, hence, its what Ford will base their studies off of. If they were supplied PP, M1, Amsoil etc then those oils would probably have a Motorcraft logo as well. My point being, I would like to offer the most protection w/o having to spend a ton on over priced oils or extra change intervals.]

 

I look forward to your insight as well as everyone else insight.

 

Thanks

[Grey]

"My point being, I would like to offer the most protection w/o having to spend a ton on over priced oils or extra change intervals"

 

You and the Ford engineers are of the same mind! That is why they recommend a synthetic blend oil for most applications. They are perfectly appropriate for normal engine operation when you follow the maintenance schedule for your vehicle. They typically cost less than a full synthetic (the last 5 quart jug I bought a WallMart was $11.50), which helps the "Cost of Ownership" factor.

 

The specification "WSS-M2C930-A " was developed by the Ford engine engineering group and one of it's most important properties is it's viscosity (cSt value) at 212 degrees F. (Normal engine operating temperature).

 

Amsoil 5W30 does not meet the spec. I believe only a 5W20 or 0W20 could possibly meet the Ford specification.

 

The engineers recognize that wear at start up is an important.consideration and recommend a full synthetic Motorcraft 5W20, or other full synthetic 5W20 or 0W20 (that meets the Ford spec.), especially for extreme cold environments.. In an engineers mind, (because they are focused on an engine operating at temperature) oil thickens as it cools. The thinner it is at ambient temperature, the quicker it lubricates at start-up A full synthetic 5W20 or 0W20 will typically be thinner at ambient temps. than a synthetic blend, but will cost a lot more.. So a synthetic "Blend" is not just a blend of olis and additives, but a blend of engine operating need and ownership cost.

 

I do suspect that an engine engineer in Michigan would prefer a full synthetic 0W20 if he/she had a vehicle they were keeping long term, especially if they parked outside through the cold winter months.

 

Oil also thickens as it ages and incorporates contaminants, If you want to improve your engine lubrication beyond the Ford requirement, I suggest you consider a 5-6.000 mile change interval with a 5W20 synthetic blend oil. That is what I use for my vheicles in Georgia. Look at cSt values at 212 degrees and at your temps at start-up as well as the Ford specification in the oils under consideration..

[bbf2530]

Please explain. From my understanding Amsoil, M1, PP, QS, Valvoline, etc... all meet or exceed Ford's specs. My goal is to protect the engine from cold starts, normal drive [city/hwy], towing, etc while following the recommended 7,500 mi oil & filter change. I see that the Motorcraft Blend is fairly ranked [or at least in the study from Amsoil site] however from reading most posts here some say I would be fine with it as long as I meet/follow Ford's guidelines w/ an 7,500 mi oil & filter change under normal use or Special Operating Conditions: 5,000 miles, 6 months, or 200 hours of engine operation .

 

Blend could be anything from 2% synthetic to 70%+ synthetic. So what data/aspects should I look for? How will I know if Motorcraft's blend will offer me the protection I am looking for? Its simple to say trust in Ford's engineers [which I do to an extent] However, why did they change the oil filter on the late 2009 early 2010 from fl400s to fl500s [was it a flaw in their design]? The engine is the same the oil is the same so why the change?

 

My reason for looking towards "full synthetics" is due to their claim of protection and ability to last for an "extended" period of time. Even though, I will be performing an 7,500 mi routine change, I would like to know that if my conditions change from optimal to "Special operating conditions" I will be protected. Now I am aware that I could just decide to stick with the MotorCraft and do my oil changes at 5,000 mi [which is not entirely that bad of an option]

 

[Note: I have learned tons form your posts as well as bbf2530, ClubwagonXLT, & many others. I am simply looking for the "best" method to take care of the vehicle. Moreover, I am sure the Ford engineers know what they are talking about, yet they do not make the oil nor the filters. These items are from external sources w/ a Motorcraft logo, hence, its what Ford will base their studies off of. If they were supplied PP, M1, Amsoil etc then those oils would probably have a Motorcraft logo as well. My point being, I would like to offer the most protection w/o having to spend a ton on over priced oils or extra change intervals.]

 

I look forward to your insight as well as everyone else insight.

 

Thanks

 

Hi k_m. :D I would like to point out a play in words on the Amsoil site. I do not know if it is intentional or not, but it is deceptive. This is what Amsoil states in their "Signature Series 0W-30 100% Synthetic Motor Oil (SSOQT)":

 

APPLICATIONS

AMSOIL Signature Series 0W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil is recommended for use in gasoline engines, diesel engines (API CF, ACEA B5) and other applications requiring SAE 0W-30, 5W-30 or 10W-30 with the following worldwide specifications:

 

• API SM/CF, SL, SJ …

• ILSAC GF-4, 3 …

• ACEA A5/B5-04

• GM 4718M, 6094M

• Ford WSS-M2C929-A

• Honda HTO-06

• Daimler Chrysler MS-6395N

• VW 503.00

 

Now, you will note that it does not state that the oil "meets or exceeds" the specs listed. It merely states that their oil is "...recommended for use...". A nice play on words, but a glaring difference in those phrases. Sure it is "recommended for use". It is "recommended for use" by Amsoil. What would we expect them to say? "Meets or exceeds" has been the accepted terminology for decades. So it is conspicuous to me when it is missing from an oils description.

 

Now, does it say "meets or exceeds" on the oil bottles themselves? I don't have an Amsoil oil bottle available so I can not say definitively. But it certainly does not state it in some of the particular oil descriptions (as described above). If I missed something, someone please post a link (and for all the oils that have been discussed, not just a few).

 

Personally, I don't care what brand oil anyone uses, as long as it meets the Ford specs and the oil is changed following Ford's OCI guidelines (currently 6 months/7,500 miles Normal Service and 6 months/5,000 miles Severe Service). In this way, you know your Warranty rights are protected. To do otherwise, on the advice of third parties who may or may not have a vested interest in what you purchase is foolish (in my opinion).

 

Concerning oils and what to use. This is my educated opinion. The people who designed, engineered and manufactured our cars make it very easy. They perform millions of miles of testing to develop and publish exacting specifications (WSS-M2C929-A) that tell us the minimum standards that must be met by the oil we use. It is listed right in the Owners Manual, Maintenance Schedules and Warranty Guides of the vehicles we buy. They tell us what the maximum oil change interval should be (6 months/7,500 or 5,000 miles). And it is listed right there for all of us to see.

 

They make it very easy for all of us. Then we decide to make it more difficult for ourselves by trying to second guess the experts who designed, engineered and manufactured our vehicles. And we take the word of third parties who are trying to tell us they know better and want to sell us their product. To me it seem silly.

 

As long as the oil we use "meets or exceeds" the Ford spec, we can't go wrong. Not an oil that someone "recommends for", but "meets or exceeds". Now if Amsoil (or any oil manufacturers product) meets those guidelines (with no double-talk and word play) and someone would like to use it, go ahead. If it does not, then using it would be foolish considering the Warranty ramifications.

 

And no matter what anyone states, if we extend our oil change interval past the Ford stipulated maximums and have an engine failure that can even remotely be attributed to those lack of oil changes, Ford certainly can deny the Warranty claim. The Magnuson-Moss Act gives absolutely no protection against that type of lack of maintenance. This has been repeatedly decided in arbitration and court cases over the years. Again, to say otherwise is simply deceptive advertising and marketing word-play.

 

Yes, among many things the Magnuson-MossAct protects us against being forced to use Motorcraft or any specific brand of oil. But it does not prohibit Ford from requiring minimum maintenance (in this case oil change intervals), that if not followed, can lead to Warranty claim denials. In fact, it protects a manufacturers right to require minimum maintenance. The motives of anyone who claims otherwise should be immediately suspect, in my opinion.

 

Bottom line is we should use an oil that "meets or exceeds" the minimum manufacturers specs. Now, that can be conventional, semi-synthetic or synthetic. Me, I would at least use a semi-synthetic (such as the Motorcraft factory fill or another name brand) or upgrade to a full synthetic. If upgrading to a full synthetic will give you added peace of mind, then you should certainly do so. Other than that, use a major brand name. And do not use "extended OCI's", no matter what anyone is trying to sell you. 6 months/7,500 or 5,000 miles. At least while you re under Warranty. Once you are off Warranty (Powertrain is 5 years/60,000 miles Ford/Mercury, 6 years/72,000 miles Lincoln), we are all free to do as we please.

 

For what it is worth, that is my opinion, based on the facts. And for those who want to debate the facts, you can argue with Ford. I mean no disrespect to anyone, but when Ford changes their guidelines, I will change my advice. But not before, because I do not think I am smarter than, or know more about designing, engineering and manufacturing cars, than the people who designed, engineered and manufactured mine. And I do not believe that any third parties on the Internet do either. Especially when they may have a monetary interest in the outcome of the debate.

 

One last thing. This is not a pointed attack against Amsoil. Amsoil just always seems to be the product most often mentioned in these sorts or discussions, especially in this thread. This advice goes for any oil manufacturers product. It is simple, it should clearly state in every product description (not "here and there" throughout a website), that the product "meets or exceeds" the specifications required. And no word-games. Honesty does not need word-games.

 

Hope this information helps, at least a little k_m.

 

And sorry for the long reply. :stats:

 

Good luck. :beerchug:

Edited January 11, 2010 by bbf2530

[k_m]

According to PP product data sheet "Meets Ford WSS M2C930-A (5W-20)" & according to their Specifications "meets or exceeds warranty requirements for gasoline and diesel engines"

 

Valvoline SynPower - "SAE 5W-20: Exceeds all car and light truck manufacturers' warranty requirements for the protection of gasoline, diesel and turbocharged engines where an API SM, SL, or CF oil is recommended. Exceeds European ACEA A1 and all requirements of ILSAC GF-3 and GF-4 for API Gasoline Engine Oils and meets Energy Conserving Standards." & their data sheet claims that Ford WSS-M2C930-A is meet with their 0W-20 & 5W-20 SynPower Oils

 

Mobil 1 EP - "Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5W-20 meets or exceeds the requirements of the following industry approvals: ILSAC GF-4 ACEA A1/B1-04 API SM/SL/SJ" & "Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5W-20 is suitable for use with for gasoline and turbo-charged engines in the following applications: Ford WSS-M2C925-A Ford WSS-M2C930-A Chrysler MS-6395"

 

Amsol - "AMSOIL Extended Life “XL” Synthetic Motor Oils exceed the current performance requirements for gasoline engines and deliver exceptional performance by controlling wear and maximizing fuel economy." & claims their XLM 5W-20 Synthetic Motor Oil meets: API SM/CF, SL, SJ ... ILSAC GF-4, 3 ... ACEA A1/B1 JASO VTW GM 6094M Ford WSS-M2C930-A Daimler Chrysler MS-6395N

 

Hence, bbf2530, you bring up an excellent point/question. It is confusing that their specs claims to meet and exceed but the data sheet claims to meet/suitable for use for the "following applications."

 

Once again thanks for the input... This thread has been very informative and helpful

[bbf2530]

According to PP product data sheet "Meets Ford WSS M2C930-A (5W-20)" & according to their Specifications "meets or exceeds warranty requirements for gasoline and diesel engines"

 

Valvoline SynPower - "SAE 5W-20: Exceeds all car and light truck manufacturers' warranty requirements for the protection of gasoline, diesel and turbocharged engines where an API SM, SL, or CF oil is recommended. Exceeds European ACEA A1 and all requirements of ILSAC GF-3 and GF-4 for API Gasoline Engine Oils and meets Energy Conserving Standards." & their data sheet claims that Ford WSS-M2C930-A is meet with their 0W-20 & 5W-20 SynPower Oils

 

Mobil 1 EP - "Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5W-20 meets or exceeds the requirements of the following industry approvals: ILSAC GF-4 ACEA A1/B1-04 API SM/SL/SJ" & "Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5W-20 is suitable for use with for gasoline and turbo-charged engines in the following applications: Ford WSS-M2C925-A Ford WSS-M2C930-A Chrysler MS-6395"

 

Amsol - "AMSOIL Extended Life “XL” Synthetic Motor Oils exceed the current performance requirements for gasoline engines and deliver exceptional performance by controlling wear and maximizing fuel economy." & claims their XLM 5W-20 Synthetic Motor Oil meets: API SM/CF, SL, SJ ... ILSAC GF-4, 3 ... ACEA A1/B1 JASO VTW GM 6094M Ford WSS-M2C930-A Daimler Chrysler MS-6395N

 

Hence, bbf2530, you bring up an excellent point/question. It is confusing that their specs claims to meet and exceed but the data sheet claims to meet/suitable for use for the "following applications."

 

Once again thanks for the input... This thread has been very informative and helpful

 

Hi k_m. :D Yes, as mentioned previously by others, that seems to be the case for the 5W-20. However, according to what I have read, it does not seem to be the case for the 5W-30 which is often mentioned by Amsoil supporters as a suitable substitute for the Ford recommended 5W-20. Their marketing material is just not written in a clear manner. And they must know that is the case by now, so...

 

Another important factor is this: If you agree that following Ford's OCI recommendations is the correct thing to do, then it makes no sense to pay the added premium/cost of Amsoil (or any other manufacturers so-called extended interval oils).. It simply makes sense to get a regular synthetic blend or full synthetic on sale and change when Ford recommends.

 

In other words, why pay more for so called extended life oils, if you are simply draining it at a regular interval.

 

If someone plans on ignoring Ford and following the advice of those who believe in extended OCI's, then paying the premium for extended OCI oils may make sense. Just realize that Warranty ramifications do exist, no matter what any third party may say otherwise.

 

That is where the decision lies. I will not extend my intervals past the Ford recommendations, so paying a premium for an extended life oil makes no sense for my situation. And in my opinion, that would be the wise choice for anyone who agrees that following Ford's OCI recommendations is the correct path.

 

For those who wish to extend OCI's to some absurd span that jeopardizes their engine and or Warranty coverage, I wish them no ill will and hope luck is on their side.

 

Good luck. :beerchug:

Edited January 10, 2010 by bbf2530

[k_m]

Thanks! According to what I have read about the MotorCraft Blend oil [what appears to be from Conoco Trop Artic oil] it seems to be fairly decent oil. I was initially thinking that maybe by getting a full synthetic oil I would further protect the engine even though I am following Ford's OCI recommendations. The oils I was initially thinking of were: 1) PP or 2) Valvoline SynPower

 

However, I am now planning on sticking with Motorcraft Blend & Motorcraft Oil filter and performing changes around 6,250 mi [mid way point b/w 5,000 and 7,500 mi] just to be super safe. This should carry the engine to about 200,00 miles before any major problems.

[Grey]

Let me comment on " what I have read about the MotorCraft Blend oil [what appears to be from Conoco Trop Artic oil] it seems to be fairly decent oil" -------

 

When I used to review the test results against specifications, I found that various motor oil formulators would develop a blend of oils and additives that would marginally meet the specification in at least one test out of ten. When asked to demonstrate compliance with the specification, they would show the one test that passed.

 

Part of the requirement that Ford has with it's suppliers (yes, more than Conoco, depending on the plant and Ford component) is that every batch meet the Ford specification, every test.

 

So, when you see "Meets the manufacturers specifications" ask yourself how many times they tested it to get one pass.

 

Ttheir major concern is minimizing the material cost of their product, where Ford has much higher considerations - protecting an $8,000 engine is just one of them.

[akirby]

Let me comment on " what I have read about the MotorCraft Blend oil [what appears to be from Conoco Trop Artic oil] it seems to be fairly decent oil" -------

 

When I used to review the test results against specifications, I found that various motor oil formulators would develop a blend of oils and additives that would marginally meet the specification in at least one test out of ten. When asked to demonstrate compliance with the specification, they would show the one test that passed.

 

Part of the requirement that Ford has with it's suppliers (yes, more than Conoco, depending on the plant and Ford component) is that every batch meet the Ford specification, every test.

 

So, when you see "Meets the manufacturers specifications" ask yourself how many times they tested it to get one pass.

 

Ttheir major concern is minimizing the material cost of their product, where Ford has much higher considerations - protecting an $8,000 engine is just one of them.

 

Why some people think that the vehicle mfr would recommend an oil that does not adequately protect the engine under all normal operating circumstances is beyond me. It's the cheapest insurance that the mfr can buy against warranty claims and customer dissatisfaction.

 

That's why I stick with OEM oils and filters and change intervals.

[k_m]

When I used to review the test results against specifications, I found that various motor oil formulators would develop a blend of oils and additives that would marginally meet the specification in at least one test out of ten. When asked to demonstrate compliance with the specification, they would show the one test that passed.

 

Part of the requirement that Ford has with it's suppliers (yes, more than Conoco, depending on the plant and Ford component) is that every batch meet the Ford specification, every test.

 

So, when you see "Meets the manufacturers specifications" ask yourself how many times they tested it to get one pass.

 

Their major concern is minimizing the material cost of their product, where Ford has much higher considerations - protecting an $8,000 engine is just one of them.

 

Can you give a list of oils which "marginally meet the specification" and also did you see the other tests which failed? I am asking because when you say "When asked to demonstrate compliance with the specification, they would show the one test that passed" seems like you only saw the one which passed and not the ones which may have failed, hence there may have been no "fails".

 

I am very interested in seeing the results from the MotorCraft Blend as well as from others which "marginally meet the specification."

 

I am sure other manufactures have the same considerations as For in protecting their engines such as BMW, Lexus, Audi, etc... which btw their engines cost more. Thats not to say that They are right and others are wrong...... In saying that I still believe that a quality Synthetic oil is much better than the MotorCraft Blend. The reason I am sticking with the Blend is b/c I will be changing my oil either before and no later than the 7,500 mi recommendations.

 

I am not trying to be rude or anything, just asking for some data which will back your comments. I am interested in learning and seeing this data.

 

Thanks

[k_m]

Why some people think that the vehicle mfr would recommend an oil that does not adequately protect the engine under all normal operating circumstances is beyond me. It's the cheapest insurance that the mfr can buy against warranty claims and customer dissatisfaction.

 

That's why I stick with OEM oils and filters and change intervals.

 

 

The reason is that some people had their vehicles stop running or inherit major problems after the power train warranty is over. I have an Aunt who had a Ford and her car was serviced by the Ford dealers. Then, 125 miles after the power train warranty expired he engine gave out. She went back to the dealer and guess what..... she would have to come out of pocket to fix the issue. If she had different oil would that have made a difference?

 

I am mainly using the OEM oils and filters just to decrease the risk of giving Ford room to wiggle out of their warranty. Now I know someone could say just take it to the dealer and have them change the oil and that would guarantee that if anything went wrong then its 100% on them. Which is true, but our dealer houses employees untrustworthy and I would like to keep the Edge running past the warranty. Some oils are now claiming to protect up to "300,000 miles guaranteed" which is longer than my 100,000 extended warranty which I bought. So wether they will back it up is to be determined by whomever uses their product.

 

Hope my explanation sheds some light on why, at least concerning why I, considered using different products.

[flyerjmr33]

I am mainly using the OEM oils and filters just to decrease the risk of giving Ford room to wiggle out of their warranty. Now I know someone could say just take it to the dealer and have them change the oil and that would guarantee that if anything went wrong then its 100% on them. Which is true, but our dealer houses employees untrustworthy and I would like to keep the Edge running past the warranty. Some oils are now claiming to protect up to "300,000 miles guaranteed" which is longer than my 100,000 extended warranty which I bought. So wether they will back it up is to be determined by whomever uses their product.

 

Hope my explanation sheds some light on why, at least concerning why I, considered using different products.

 

The Magnuson/Moss Act6 of 1975 protects the consumer from a manufacturer requiring that only their brand of product be used when doing normal maintainance. They can require the replacement product to meet minimum specs., so any oil that meets the Ford specs for your vehicle and any oil filter also, will be OK. Conoco does package the Motorcraft oil, and it is very reasonably priced at Wallyworld--- Any name brand filter should also work as long as it is specified for your engine.

I find it more convenient to change my own oil. That guarantees me that it is really changed and done properly! I log it and keep the receipts. That's all that's necessary for proof of maintainance for warranty.

Have the maintainance done at any shop that you feel comfortable with and Ford should honor your warranty.

[akirby]

The reason is that some people had their vehicles stop running or inherit major problems after the power train warranty is over. I have an Aunt who had a Ford and her car was serviced by the Ford dealers. Then, 125 miles after the power train warranty expired he engine gave out. She went back to the dealer and guess what..... she would have to come out of pocket to fix the issue. If she had different oil would that have made a difference?

 

I think that's a very rare case nowadays. Was the failure lubrication related? I doubt it unless the dealer failed to use the correct oil and filter or the service wasn't done within the proper intervals.

 

I can almost guarantee that if you use Ford OEM oil and filters and follow the recommended maintenance schedule that you won't have a lubrication related engine problem.

[k_m]

Thanks flyerjmr33 for the info!

 

At akirby, I believe it to be of lubrication related issues as well as other issues, hence, it was not just one factor. There was minor sludge build up, bad gaskets, scuffs on the pistons, etc... [note she serviced the car at all the appropriate times] Could it be rare... possibly.... could it still happen... possibly

 

That is why I am very interested to see the data which Grey refers to. See my post #45.

Edited January 11, 2010 by k_m

[akirby]

Thanks flyerjmr33 for the info!

 

At akirby, I believe it to be of lubrication related issues as well as other issues, hence, it was not just one factor. There was minor sludge build up, bad gaskets, scuffs on the pistons, etc... [note she serviced the car at all the appropriate times] Could it be rare... possibly.... could it still happen... possibly

 

That is why I am very interested to see the data which Grey refers to. See my post #45.

 

If there is sludge then I'd bet a large sum of money that the dealer either used the wrong oil or didn't actually change it when they said they did.