canadian drl hid

[TheWizard]

The headlights operate at a lower voltage during the day when they are on as DRL. Approximately 10 volts. If you are connected directly to the ballast with stock wiring and your HID's are not firing, the voltage may be too low. Do they fire properly if you switch your headlights on? If so, you would be best to connect the ballasts directly to battery through a relay. When the DRL's turn on, the relay fires and gives the ballasts 13.5 VDC all the time.

 

When the headlights are run as DRLs, they end up getting lower voltage but it is not specifically the lower voltage that causes the problem with HID ballasts - it's the way the lower voltage is achieved that causes the problem. The circuit doesn't reduce voltage in the traditional way (resistance) but rather it is done electronically using a method called Pulse Wave Modulation (PWM). The system creates a square wave pulsed signal in such a way that the overall average voltage is reduced without the problems of heat and variability caused by adding resistance to a circuit. This works fine for incandescent bulbs such as halogen headlights because the bulb filament is not sensitive to the rapid pulsation. The problem is that an HID ballast doesn't like the pulsating feed and will sometimes refuse to start up. Oddly enough, more expensive ballasts built with better components are more susceptible to the problem because the better components react more quickly where cheaper components will sometimes just see the average voltage because of their slow reaction speed.

 

This issue is not limited to aftermarket HID systems - factory HIDs have the same problem. Ford does not use factory HIDs for DRL... depending on the model, they use either the amber turn signals or the fog lights (turn signals are used on the Edge because it has no fog lights). This is why there is a program setting to set the DRL to the turn signals instead of the headlights.

[normcloutier]

I have front turn signals as DRL so I needed to tie into the rear turn signal circuits for the amber switchback feature of the EDGE2. I didn't want to run wires through the firewall so I investigated other options. Well I have some good news and some bad news. The good news is that the amber trigger for the EDGE2 can be connected to the trailer tow wire relays in the engine compartment. The bad news is that the trailer tow wiring/relays use turn and stop as one lamp. Turn signals activate the EDGE2 amber switchback perfectly. So does applying brakes. FUG. I only tested turn circuits before starting the wirning. Did not test stop function.

 

After a whole weekend of fancy braided split loom wiring and internal fuse box connections, I was quite proud of my EDGE2 install. Pulled up to a store front window on the way home and couldn't figure out why my DRL's were amber. Put the vehicle into park and released the brake and amber turned to white. OMG. What a stupid mistake.

 

Looks like it's some more wiring investigation in the engine compartment or some wires through the firewall. There are separate turn signal relays but they are also somehow interconnected with a single stop relay.

[The Whedge]

I'd like to install an HID upgrade kit for my 2014 Edge Sport (Why HID is not an option in the Sport is beyond me, but anyway.....). Likely will go with this: http://www.theretrofitsource.com/hid-systems/morimoto-elite-hid-system-9012.html#.VBiqAfldV8E

 

Not sure if I should get the Canbus or the HD relay as I don't really understand what they do exactly and how they differ. I've tried searching the forums but I haven't found anything that's really clear. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

[TheWizard]

The Edge does not have CAN Bus so you should get the HD relay harness. CAN Bus is an onboard network in mostly European cars that monitors the electrical system for things like burned out bulbs and will display a warning or idiot light on the dash if it finds a problem.

[normcloutier]

Just as a follow up to an old post. Here is what I have done.

 

I had my dealer change the DRL function from the headlights to the turn signals in my 2013 SEL.

I had to connect the DTBL DRL amber signal trigger to the rear turn signal wires. These can be located in the drivers side footwell.

I installed 35 watt HID from absolutehid.ca They have been in for about 20 months and not a single hiccup. I had to trim the tabs on the lamps in order to rotate them 1 tab to eliminate the return wire shadow. I installed ballasts in factory location.

 

If you have any questions about my set-up, please ask.

 

[@cUr@-TL]

^^ I see you have Can-Bus ballasts.

 

Do you also have a relay kit and did you install capacitors/error cancellers ?

 

Thank you!

[akirby]

The Edge does not have CAN Bus so you should get the HD relay harness. CAN Bus is an onboard network in mostly European cars that monitors the electrical system for things like burned out bulbs and will display a warning or idiot light on the dash if it finds a problem.

 

Of course the Edge has CAN bus. I think all vehicles in the US have it after 2008.

[TheWizard]

The Edge has a Controller Area Network (CAN)... in fact it has two - a high speed CAN network and a medium speed CAN network. The high speed network is for vehicle control critical operations such as anti-lock brakes, steering, traction control, etc. The medium speed network is for less time sensitive operations such as lighting, audio, HVAC, etc. But neither one is "THE" CAN Bus that everyone talks about when discussing electronic compatibility. That CAN Bus is used almost exclusively on European imports (especially BMW, Mercedes, Audi, etc.) and is designed to report to the driver when changes such as burned out bulbs are detected in the electrical system. It will trigger a warning light or message on the dash when such changes are detected. The problem is that it is extremely sensitive to even minor changes so aftermarket products have to be very careful not to change resistance or other parameters of the electrical system to avoid triggering a warning. The Edge does not have that kind of monitoring system.

Edited September 17, 2014 by TheWizard

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

Do you know if this is true of other models in the Ford lineup? Specifically, the Taurus? Very hard to find info on the 'net.

[akirby]

The Edge has a Controller Area Network (CAN)... in fact it has two - a high speed CAN network and a medium speed CAN network. The high speed network is for vehicle control critical operations such as anti-lock brakes, steering, traction control, etc. The medium speed network is for less time sensitive operations such as lighting, audio, HVAC, etc. But neither one is "THE" CAN Bus that everyone talks about when discussing electronic compatibility. That CAN Bus is used almost exclusively on European imports (especially BMW, Mercedes, Audi, etc.) and is designed to report to the driver when changes such as burned out bulbs are detected in the electrical system. It will trigger a warning light or message on the dash when such changes are detected. The problem is that it is extremely sensitive to even minor changes so aftermarket products have to be very careful not to change resistance or other parameters of the electrical system to avoid triggering a warning. The Edge does not have that kind of monitoring system.

 

There is no "THE" CAN bus. It's just a protocol for communication between devices and controllers and it's up to the mfr how they implement it. It sounds like the Germans simply have an implementation that is more sensitive to aftermarket devices which is either due to the physical wiring and/or the controller software.

[TheWizard]

Actually there is. Other manufacturers with Controller Area Networks don't call their system "CAN Bus" in the same way. I was using "THE" and "CAN Bus" with that particular capitalization to indicate the trade name as opposed to a generic controller area network that other manufacturers have. I was trying to distinguish between the European "CAN Bus" and others because of the differences in their sensitivity to change. The BMW system in particular is notorious for not tolerating even the smallest change - their motorcycles will sometimes throw a code simply because 3157 tail light bulbs were replaced with 3457 bulbs.

[TheWizard]

Do you know if this is true of other models in the Ford lineup? Specifically, the Taurus? Very hard to find info on the 'net.

 

My '11 Mustang has the MS-CAN and HS-CAN (medium speed and high speed) the same as the Edge (and I know the '10 Mustang is the same) so I suspect that most of the Ford lineup would be configured similarly. I don't know what year they started and it's difficult to determine without the service manuals but I would say that any Ford passenger car from at least 2010 and newer would have those two networks.

[akirby]

Are you sure you're not referring to EOBD which is specific to European cars? Audi, e.g. has 3 different CAN buses, not a single one. The logic to determine if a bulb is burned out is not in the CAN bus itself but in the controller that turns the lights on and off and monitors the voltage and current and raises a fault with the main controller. Or perhaps the European mfrs all use the same vendor for some modules. Either way I still don't see a single CAN bus for European vehicles.

[akirby]

 

My '11 Mustang has the MS-CAN and HS-CAN (medium speed and high speed) the same as the Edge (and I know the '10 Mustang is the same) so I suspect that most of the Ford lineup would be configured similarly. I don't know what year they started and it's difficult to determine without the service manuals but I would say that any Ford passenger car from at least 2010 and newer would have those two networks.

 

 

All U.S. vehicles 2008 or later are required to use CAN bus protocols.

[TheWizard]

My point had nothing to do with the technical accuracy of naming conventions. I was trying to point out that when aftermarket lighting supliers (LED bulbs, HID kits, etc.) refer to special "CAN Bus" versions of their products, they are referring to those vehicles which have monitoring systems in their lighting circuits - something Ford products don't have. There is no need to buy special "CAN Bus" versions of lighting products because there is no warning light, dash message or diagnostic code created by the Ford MS-CAN for lighting problems. The closest equivalent in Fords is the hyper-flashing of the turn signals caused by the low resistance of LED bulbs and even that requires only a resistor and not a special circuit to overcome.

 

The original question was "do we need a CAN Bus HID kit?" and the answer is no.

Edited September 17, 2014 by TheWizard

[The Whedge]

Wow! Quite the discussion there. Looks like there are a lot of knowledgeable people on this forum. Thanks for the responses. Looks like I'll go with the HD relay. Also I might check out the HID kit Norm installed as well before making a final decision, especially if it's a Canadian site and I can avoid international shipping and duty charges.

[akirby]

My point had nothing to do with the technical accuracy of naming conventions. I was trying to point out that when aftermarket lighting supliers (LED bulbs, HID kits, etc.) refer to special "CAN Bus" versions of their products, they are referring to those vehicles which have monitoring systems in their lighting circuits - something Ford products don't have. There is no need to buy special "CAN Bus" versions of lighting products because there is no warning light, dash message or diagnostic code created by the Ford MS-CAN for lighting problems. The closest equivalent in Fords is the hyper-flashing of the turn signals caused by the low resistance of LED bulbs and even that requires only a resistor and not a special circuit to overcome.

 

The original question was "do we need a CAN Bus HID kit?" and the answer is no.

 

Ok I'll buy that. It would have been more clear to say "it doesn't need the Can-bus adapter" than to simply say the Edge doesn't have Can-bus. I tend to take things very literally and that didn't make sense.

[The Whedge]

I just discovered that Dan is now selling HID upgrade kits as well.....

 

http://drivebright.com/home/shop/hid-headlight-replacement-kit-new/

[L0lboubou]

hi, Can someone can post a video with the OEM DRL front turn signals? (after they switch DRL headlights to front turn signals)

 

Thanks a lot

[The Whedge]

Question about 35w vs 55w deleted. Found the answer in an older thread

Edited September 17, 2014 by The Whedge

[@cUr@-TL]

hi, Can someone can post a video with the OEM DRL front turn signals? (after they switch DRL headlights to front turn signals)

 

Thanks a lot

 

I would appreciate this as well.

[@cUr@-TL]

I just discovered that Dan is now selling HID upgrade kits as well.....

 

http://drivebright.com/home/shop/hid-headlight-replacement-kit-new/

 

It's too bad there's no 4300k available... I'd make it 4300k and 5000k instead of offering 6000k which is pretty much useless.

[The Whedge]

5000k is pretty white. Matches Dan's DRL lights too

[@cUr@-TL]

^^ I'm using HIDs to get the best possible light output at a reasonable cost. Thus, 4300k is the only way to go for me.

 

I'm hoping to get a trouble-free HID setup on my Edge. All the flickering/power up issues are worrying me!

[normcloutier]

I have used the absolutehid 9012 4300k 35 watt kit for nearly 2 years with zero issues. I had the DRL function changed from headlight to turn signal before installing HID so I did not use a relay harness. I also didn't want to deal with all the extra wiring and relay under the hood for a 55 watt kit.

 

Since the voltage going to the headlight in my situation is 13.5 VDC, the ballast doesnt have any problem firing. If you have headlight as DRL, I would probably use a relay harness. The relay will have less issues with the pulsing DRL 10 VDC that the ballast will.

 

Be weary of tabs and trimming and return wire shadows from whatever brand you choose. The headlight assembly is a reflector so everything is inverted 180 degrees.