Larry Care Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 Larry Care... so sorry to hear about your near-collision experience. That is why I started this thread. This is a SERIOUS issue that Ford is using to make service revenue. Just like the Pinto... so long as no one is killed, they make $$$. I have found two cash-cows they are using right now. The Throttle Body and the Door Latch. At 30K miles, my drivers door latch failed. If you search around you'll find this has been a problems with Ford for YEARS and they don't change it. In any case... on your doing your own TB replacement. A friend of mine works at Advanced Auto Parts. He handles the commercial accounts so I asked him to get the inside skinny from one of his Ford dealer customers. He told me that the story he got was two new bits of info: 1) it is the controller, not the TB as a whole that is defective. So, never fall for the "it just needs cleaned" story. Dealers have tried to sell me a $65 cleaning every 15K miles as a preventative. That's BS. Yes, eventually... maybe around 100K miles... a cleaning is a good idea. It will NOT prevent the failure. 2) That they have to "flash" the controller after it is installed. My friend didn't have a lot of details but thought that it is because it's a generic controller for a lot of different cars and the fine tuning is done in the computer. I have not verified that further but you should check on this if you're doing your own repair to be certain. God help us all... Ford is out to get us with the TB issue!! Thank you for the information, from what I can see it should be plug and play but I'll look into it. I planned on taking it in to a dealer soon as I to have time to check that the firmware is up to date in the ECU anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixponies Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 Thank you for the information, from what I can see it should be plug and play but I'll look into it. I planned on taking it in to a dealer soon as I to have time to check that the firmware is up to date in the ECU anyways. It's totally plug-and-play. Just swap out the TB and you're good to go. Took less than an hour in my own garage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 Just so you guys understand, Ford makes NOTHING on out of warranty dealer repairs. Ford dealers are independent businesses. I do believe that Ford should extend the warranty on the TB and door latches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Care Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 (edited) Just so you guys understand, Ford makes NOTHING on out of warranty dealer repairs. Ford dealers are independent businesses. I do believe that Ford should extend the warranty on the TB and door latches. I agree; the dealers are making the money. Look, I love Ford; matter of fact my 2003 F150 4.6L just turned 264,000 miles without one issue and runs great. But this issue should have been looked at a little harder. I’m a reliability engineer and calculate the failure rate of items used in military flight simulators every day. I would love to see the failure rate data on the Rev A throttle Body electronics. Edited June 23, 2015 by Larry Care 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maavalous1 Posted June 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 AKIRBY, Don't want to get into a big back/forth on the making money issue. You clearly don't understand the symbiotic relationship that manufacturers have with dealers. Independent businesses is legally correct... but there's a HUGE gray area on how the business actually works. Ford makes a decent markup on the parts they sell to the dealer. The big $$ go to the dealers to help them make even more $$. They make very little on selling cars relative to the huge profit in repairs. Ford knows that full and well. And, WOW! Is there a WIDE range of prices for the same repair. TB replace anywhere from $600 to $900 that I've seen. Makin' some money! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 So you think Ford would sacrifice JD Power quality ratings and pissed off customers and bad press just to let the dealers make some extra money on repairs? Your tinfoil hat is crooked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maavalous1 Posted June 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 Really AKIRBY... tinfoil hat? I know dealers personally... like backyard barbecue know them. The stories are NOT funny. Do you really think they pay the bills on those elaborate dealerships with the $1,500 they make on selling you a car? Childish and uneducated reply... time for a new moderator on this forum me thinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 I understand they make money on service and used cars rather than new car sales. I could also see where a dealer might think that Ford is throwing them a bone with these bad parts. And I'm sure there is nothing in writing to prove or disprove it. If that was the goal then why did Ford INCREASE oil change intervals so drastically? Why didn't they keep it at 3000 miles? That would generate lots of revenue for the dealers. Same with transmission fluid - why make it a 150K mile service? Why not 30K? Wouldn't that give the dealers a lot more revenue? I refuse to believe that Ford would either purposely use bad parts or continue using bad parts for the sole reason of giving dealers more repair business. They may decide it's cheaper to continue using a bad part than it is to correct it but that's a different issue altogether. It doesn't make any sense for Ford to purposely generate bad quality ratings just to line some dealers' pockets. It ranks right up there with built-in obsolescence where the mfrs make sure the engine blows up after 100K just so you have to buy a new car. To me, it's just a conspiracy theory that doesn't make sense, thus the tinfoil hat comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Care Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 Kind of getting a little off topic I must say Ford answered my PM very fast so they are listening to what is being said. This may be a recall one day who knows; worst case I’m out $152.00 I just want it fixed. With no data it’s really hard to know how many have really failed. I see a lot of talk the about the recalled TB used on the Focus but I thought it was a different part number so you can’t really compare. I see it as a safety issue for sure and only someone that had a close call would get it, we could be the very few who knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Care Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 Forgot to ask, anyone know the torque value of the 4 throttle body mounting bolts I don't have the shop manuals at this time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixponies Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 I didn't torque mine to any specific specs. I just made sure they were tight, without going so tight that the manifold plastic might crack. That was nine months ago, and no problems since then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Care Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 Used the German method; goodandtight. LOL 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bethm321 Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 My 2013 Edge did this stalling thing on Monday. Same story as everyone else -- dealer can't find anything wrong with it at all. Meanwhile, I have a commute that takes me over a bridge that is currently being widened, so the lanes are very narrow now and there are no shoulders. If I stall there, I am dead. Period. I have a 125K extended warranty on the car. After reading this thread, I called the regional CSM (which is where this has escalated to) and asked that Ford approve my dealer to replace the throttle body on my car. After all, the part is not expensive and I did pay for that extended warranty. Nope. Can't do it. So I asked for her supervisor to call me. Waiting on that now. And the longer I wait, the madder I get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWPerfA_ZN0W Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 (edited) If you can DIY or have a friend do it, might be cheaper AND safer to go ahead with the TB change on your dime. Keep all receipts (FWIW) and fight it out later. BTW, since someone asked about the torque specs for the TB bolts: To install, tighten to 10 Nm (89 lb-in). Edited June 25, 2015 by WWWPerfA_ZN0W 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Care Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 One left, mine is out for delivery today. 2 days from Puerto Rico I’ll do a write up and take pic’s for anyone that needs it, should be a 15 minute job Total cost $151.77 http://www.ebay.com/itm/161739625540 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixponies Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 One left, mine is out for delivery today. 2 days from Puerto Rico I’ll do a write up and take pic’s for anyone that needs it, should be a 15 minute job Total cost $151.77 http://www.ebay.com/itm/161739625540 I bought one from this same eBay seller in Puerto Rico. Very fast shipping. It's a very easy job. While you have everything torn apart, it'd be a good idea to clean your MAF sensor with MAF sensor cleaning spray, and get some TB cleaner and spray out the intake and clean it where the TB mates up to it. Also, disconnect the negative battery cable while you're doing the job. This will force the computer to relearn air/fuel ratios/settings for the new TB. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbwt Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 (edited) What caused you to decide the TB is the issue? Signs and symptoms of a failure? One left, mine is out for delivery today. 2 days from Puerto Rico I’ll do a write up and take pic’s for anyone that needs it, should be a 15 minute job Total cost $151.77 http://www.ebay.com/itm/161739625540 Edited June 25, 2015 by macbwt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Care Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 (edited) What caused you to decided the TB is the issue? Signs and symptoms of a failure? From post #147 on page 8 "Vehicle lost power pulling out in traffic and would not accelerate and the yellow wrench appeared on the instrument panel. Restart engine and back to normal (this happened 3 times trying to get home). The third time the Service Engine Soon light came on and I was able to pull the codes and had a P2111 and a P2112." P2111.pdf P2112.pdf Edited June 25, 2015 by Larry Care 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bethm321 Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Update: So I have escalated this to the Southern CSM and he is an asshole. I told him that I had been doing research and people who have had a similar problem as I did and were able to get the car to a dealership while the light was still on have been diagnosed with a throttle body failure. Since I have the 125K-mile warranty (and am well within that), can't they just replace the throttle body? If it works, then I'm out of their hair. If it doesn't, the next time it happens, I drive it to a Toyota dealer and trade it in . Not only did he say no, but he ridiculed me on the phone, AND when I expressed concern about my safety (I commute over a very busy bridge with no shoulders; if I stall out there, I am probably dead), he said, "You can't live your life afraid of dying." I have further complained. I'm not sure there's anything they can do at all at this point to make me happy. Most likely when we pick up the car on Monday, we will drive straight to trade it in. I am so angry that I am having to get a new car in less than three years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWPerfA_ZN0W Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Outrageous response from the RCSM! I don't blame you for feeling deserted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 You could fix it yourself for $150 and 15 minutes. That's a lot cheaper and easier than trading it in. That is not very professional. Have you tried our local Ford Service folks? They can often help more than the regular CSMs. Send a PM to FordService. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Care Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 If you can DIY or have a friend do it, might be cheaper AND safer to go ahead with the TB change on your dime. Keep all receipts (FWIW) and fight it out later. BTW, since someone asked about the torque specs for the TB bolts: To install, tighten to 10 Nm (89 lb-in). Thanks just what I needed (torque specs), and that was what I guessed when I was talking to a guy at work today, I'll change out my ETB and document it tonight. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWPerfA_ZN0W Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 So cool, Larry! I really hope this works out for you and the wife, would make me doubly glad to see you enjoy the Edge in safety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbwt Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Don't forget to disconnect the battery so the Edge can relearn the new TB! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWPerfA_ZN0W Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 Seems like a transmission shift issue, but may actually be an Electronic Throttle Body issue: Torque Pro or Forscan software can come in mighty handy here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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