sranger Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 So far, the Edge is not getting very good reviews. If the braking tests are accurate, I would not buy one as it would be a safety issue driving in Atlanta traffic. Edmunds: http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drive...photopanel..1.* Car And Driver http://www.caranddriver.com/roadtests/1186...l-plus-awd.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertlane Posted November 18, 2006 Report Share Posted November 18, 2006 I've read those articles. I think there is another one stating the same thing. I suppose in the end, potential consumers who read the reviews won't be pleased when several articles state the brakes are not up to snuff. But I wonder if this whole issue is over-blown? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank IdontKnow Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 So far, the Edge is not getting very good reviews. If the braking tests are accurate, I would not buy one as it would be a safety issue driving in Atlanta traffic. Edmunds: http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drive...photopanel..1.* Car And Driver http://www.caranddriver.com/roadtests/1186...l-plus-awd.html "For one, the grip provided by the optional 245/60-18 Continental CrossContact LX all-season tires is very modest at 0.75 g. For another, the blend of mass and so-so grip yields longish stopping distances: 191 feet from 70 mph, hefty brakes notwithstanding." So... order it with different tires. This is a very heavy vehicle and stops just fine in day to day driving.. Perhaps on a test track the stopping distance is not up to the standards of a lighter vehicle but people wont be driving the edge on a test track. If I was unfortunate enough to be in an accident I would much rather be in the heavier vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymous Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 "For one, the grip provided by the optional 245/60-18 Continental CrossContact LX all-season tires is very modest at 0.75 g. For another, the blend of mass and so-so grip yields longish stopping distances: 191 feet from 70 mph, hefty brakes notwithstanding."So... order it with different tires. This is a very heavy vehicle and stops just fine in day to day driving.. Perhaps on a test track the stopping distance is not up to the standards of a lighter vehicle but people wont be driving the edge on a test track. If I was unfortunate enough to be in an accident I would much rather be in the heavier vehicle. Braking distances are affected by more than just the tires. The suspension tuning can be significant. A harder setup will keep the nose from diving, thereby keeping the contact patch larger for the rear wheels. Moreover, the calipers, pad composition, brake fluid composition, and rotor swept area contribute to this. I went to great lengths to increase the stopping power on one of my cars. It takes alot more than just swapping tires to improve a 152 foot 60-0 stop. From what I've read, the reviewers are blaming lack of ventilated discs. I'm surprised that Ford would engineer an Electronic Brake Distribution system, only to leave out a simple mechanical feature like ventilation for the discs. For comparison, the Mazda CX-7 gets rave reviews for its brakes, which is generally credited to having both front AND rear ventilated discs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sranger Posted November 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 Braking distances are affected by more than just the tires. The suspension tuning can be significant. A harder setup will keep the nose from diving, thereby keeping the contact patch larger for the rear wheels. Moreover, the calipers, pad composition, brake fluid composition, and rotor swept area contribute to this. I went to great lengths to increase the stopping power on one of my cars. It takes alot more than just swapping tires to improve a 152 foot 60-0 stop. From what I've read, the reviewers are blaming lack of ventilated discs. I'm surprised that Ford would engineer an Electronic Brake Distribution system, only to leave out a simple mechanical feature like ventilation for the discs. For comparison, the Mazda CX-7 gets rave reviews for its brakes, which is generally credited to having both front AND rear ventilated discs. Good points... I recently saw a brake swap on an 05 mustang. Using the same tires yeilded a 60-0 reduction of nearly 20 feet. This was done with larger drilled/vented rotors and dual calipers. Tires do certianly help, but to truly shorten the braking distances usually requires braking hardware upgrades. I have seen simple carbon fiber pads and stainless steel brake lines make a big difference.. I am certian that I could improve on the stopping distance of the Edge, but it would require about $2,000.00 worth of hardware/tire upgrades. I would not rule out this possiblity as I am the type that will modify a new car to suit me tastes... ( I.E. my supercharged mustang.. ) However, I am a little dissapointed in Ford for allowing this issue to potentialy harm an otherwise strong mechanical design. They had to have known about it in their testing if ( I SAID IF ) the magazine articles are accurate. It will wait until I can get a test drive to make my on decision... Of course, I should note that the thing probably stops better than my 05 Mariner. It's 60 year old rear drum technology is not very impressive... P.S. I think the main advantage in the CX-7 is that is is significantly lighter with better brakes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porciniman Posted November 23, 2006 Report Share Posted November 23, 2006 Good points... I recently saw a brake swap on an 05 mustang. Using the same tires yeilded a 60-0 reduction of nearly 20 feet. This was done with larger drilled/vented rotors and dual calipers. Tires do certianly help, but to truly shorten the braking distances usually requires braking hardware upgrades. I have seen simple carbon fiber pads and stainless steel brake lines make a big difference.. I am certian that I could improve on the stopping distance of the Edge, but it would require about $2,000.00 worth of hardware/tire upgrades. I would not rule out this possiblity as I am the type that will modify a new car to suit me tastes... ( I.E. my supercharged mustang.. ) However, I am a little dissapointed in Ford for allowing this issue to potentialy harm an otherwise strong mechanical design. They had to have known about it in their testing if ( I SAID IF ) the magazine articles are accurate. It will wait until I can get a test drive to make my on decision... Of course, I should note that the thing probably stops better than my 05 Mariner. It's 60 year old rear drum technology is not very impressive... P.S. I think the main advantage in the CX-7 is that is is significantly lighter with better brakes... Ya know, I've been reading info, that seems to based on second hand reports,. That's to say...car reviewers. I'll take what they say with a grain of salt. They are biased to the "Nth" degree! The people who will buy this vehicle will more than likely love it, despite all the shortcomings these writers have issues with!!! If I based my buying options on their opinions, I'd be living in then 80's. The buying public will ultimately be the driving force of the success or failure of this new offering. The buying public, who reads their biased drivel, could give a rats ass about what these rags say! They are just barometers, and biased ones at that, nothing more I'll be happy to judge for myself...thank you very much! I drive livery and will be able to put this car thru its paces, better than most. If it's a good car, I'll bet I know before these reviewers, who take a "TEST" drive of 800 miles before the vehicle is broken in; get an accurate representation of MPG or how well the vehicle performs in everydayt driving !!! At best, it's a guesstimate. I don't like guessstimates! When, (if I ever get it) I have driven this vehcle for a month, (approx 6000 miles) I'll give you my review and those of the clients I've driven. Only then, will I believe, we'll have an accurate representation of how good Ford built this vehicle!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sranger Posted November 24, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2006 Ya know, I've been reading info, that seems to based on second hand reports,.That's to say...car reviewers. I'll take what they say with a grain of salt. They are biased to the "Nth" degree! The people who will buy this vehicle will more than likely love it, despite all the shortcomings these writers have issues with!!! If I based my buying options on their opinions, I'd be living in then 80's. The buying public will ultimately be the driving force of the success or failure of this new offering. The buying public, who reads their biased drivel, could give a rats ass about what these rags say! They are just barometers, and biased ones at that, nothing more I'll be happy to judge for myself...thank you very much! I drive livery and will be able to put this car thru its paces, better than most. If it's a good car, I'll bet I know before these reviewers, who take a "TEST" drive of 800 miles before the vehicle is broken in; get an accurate representation of MPG or how well the vehicle performs in everydayt driving !!! At best, it's a guesstimate. I don't like guessstimates! When, (if I ever get it) I have driven this vehcle for a month, (approx 6000 miles) I'll give you my review and those of the clients I've driven. Only then, will I believe, we'll have an accurate representation of how good Ford built this vehicle!!! You mentioned "Guesstimates" a couple of times. So I assume you carry many $$$ worth of test equipment with you so that you get accurate preformance measurments instead of guessing it's performance by the seat of your pants? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porciniman Posted November 24, 2006 Report Share Posted November 24, 2006 You mentioned "Guesstimates" a couple of times. So I assume you carry many $$$ worth of test equipment with you so that you get accurate preformance measurments instead of guessing it's performance by the seat of your pants? The "preformance by the seat of your pants?" comment is sophomoric and appropo. The real results, will be how everyday drivers feel in the seat of their pants!! In my case, not only how I feel, but how do my clients like the vehicle. That's why I believe I'll be a great barometer for this particular car. My monthly mileage will be greater than these guys would ever drive and my yearly mileage will be greater than most drivers do in 5 years!!!!!! Something these reviewers can't even approach in their short tests!!! The everyday consumer doesen't care about "$$$ worth of test equipment", but rather, does the car perform well for their needs!!! These reviewers don't carry $$$ worth of test equipment with them...they ride in this vehicle like the rest of us!!! And even if they had all this alledged equipment....how does that equate to how "YOU" feel in the car in day to day driving??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sranger Posted November 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 The "preformance by the seat of your pants?" comment is sophomoric and appropo. The real results, will be how everyday drivers feel in the seat of their pants!! In my case, not only how I feel, but how do my clients like the vehicle. That's why I believe I'll be a great barometer for this particular car. My monthly mileage will be greater than these guys would ever drive and my yearly mileage will be greater than most drivers do in 5 years!!!!!! Something these reviewers can't even approach in their short tests!!! The everyday consumer doesen't care about "$$$ worth of test equipment", but rather, does the car perform well for their needs!!! These reviewers don't carry $$$ worth of test equipment with them...they ride in this vehicle like the rest of us!!! And even if they had all this alledged equipment....how does that equate to how "YOU" feel in the car in day to day driving??? Obviously you have never seen a full test review in person. They typically get test data at the track or vacant parking lot using scientific testing equipment and then go for longer drives on the street to get their overall driving impression. In the case of braking, it is a very straightforward test. I doubt there will be much difference between their test and reality. Based on the amount of miles that you claim to drive I would find it hard to believe that you do not occasionally find your self in a short distance stop situation. It happens to all of us and an extra 20-30ft of stopping distance can easily make the difference between a panic stop and an accident... I may not drive as much as you do, but I do drive about 30,000 miles a year in heavy Atlanta traffic. I for one want to see from a scientific point of view how a vehicles stops in a panic situation relative to it's competition. I would think that most people would want to know that little bit of information as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porciniman Posted November 27, 2006 Report Share Posted November 27, 2006 "They typically get test data at the track or vacant parking lot using scientific testing equipment" Great!!! That will give the average consumer an accurate idea of how it drives on a day to day basis!! They beat the shit out of these cars on a track or vacant lot, but most of "us" don't drive that way, at least ...not in the real world! To me, this is not an accurate representation, of how we all drive in the real world!!! It is however, an idea of how they feel the car should drive! Their bias is obvious!! Let's just wait until we drive it ourselves! I'll bet it will be better thann most vehicles out there! "They typically get test data at the track or vacant parking lot using scientific testing equipment" Great!!! That will give the average consumer an accurate idea of how it drives on a day to day basis!! They beat the shit out of these cars on a track or vacant lot, but most of "us" don't drive that way, at least ...not in the real world! To me, this is not an accurate representation, of how we all drive in the real world!!! It is however, an idea of how they feel the car should drive! Their bias is obvious!! Let's just wait until we drive it ourselves! I'll bet it will be better thann most vehicles out there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sranger Posted November 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 "They typically get test data at the track or vacant parking lot using scientific testing equipment" Great!!! That will give the average consumer an accurate idea of how it drives on a day to day basis!! They beat the shit out of these cars on a track or vacant lot, but most of "us" don't drive that way, at least ...not in the real world! To me, this is not an accurate representation, of how we all drive in the real world!!! It is however, an idea of how they feel the car should drive! Their bias is obvious!! Let's just wait until we drive it ourselves! I'll bet it will be better thann most vehicles out there! "They typically get test data at the track or vacant parking lot using scientific testing equipment" Great!!! That will give the average consumer an accurate idea of how it drives on a day to day basis!! They beat the shit out of these cars on a track or vacant lot, but most of "us" don't drive that way, at least ...not in the real world! To me, this is not an accurate representation, of how we all drive in the real world!!! It is however, an idea of how they feel the car should drive! Their bias is obvious!! Let's just wait until we drive it ourselves! I'll bet it will be better thann most vehicles out there! I do not know why you are getting so upset. That was not my intention. I simply found it odd that you seem to prefer opinion over fact when evaluating a vehicle's preformance. I clearly stated in my post that the technical preformance data was collected at the track and that their overall driving impression was determined by drives on the road. I must admit that I do not understand why you object to doing acceleration, braking and handling tests on a track or other large safe driving surface. I would hope that you would not like to see these tests carried out on public roads. I can only guess by your comments that a vehicle will be determined to have braking issues only when you have rear ended the car in front of you in the "Real World".... This will be my last responce to you, as I do not want to see you get more upset for no good reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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