Ford Edge at invoice

[blu by u]

Ho imparato lo Spagnolo quando ho vissuto en California. Ho fatto parte de Air Force ed ho vissuto in Italia. Era facile da cambiare da spagnolo ad italiano. Amo i suoni dell'italiano. Desidero che ho avuto più di un'occasione parlarla ogni giorno.

 

Talk about mis-spelling words... I couldn't read ANY of that!

 

Here's my question; when you guys start talking about "invoice" and "cost", does that really mean anything? Are these documents that you are seeing and if so, are these real? What exactly does "invoice cost" mean? I have a business background and teach business strategies and sometimes I wonder about perceived value when I hear things being sold at "below invoice".

 

If it IS actually true, what business can survive at that? I don't pretend to understand the automotive industry and their "invoice costs" so it would be interesting to hear the real poop on this if in fact, anyone truly knows...

[akirby]

Talk about mis-spelling words... I couldn't read ANY of that!

 

Here's my question; when you guys start talking about "invoice" and "cost", does that really mean anything? Are these documents that you are seeing and if so, are these real? What exactly does "invoice cost" mean? I have a business background and teach business strategies and sometimes I wonder about perceived value when I hear things being sold at "below invoice".

 

If it IS actually true, what business can survive at that? I don't pretend to understand the automotive industry and their "invoice costs" so it would be interesting to hear the real poop on this if in fact, anyone truly knows...

 

Dealer invoice is the price on the invoice that the dealer pays Ford for the vehicle. These prices are published everywhere now - Edmunds, Kbb, etc. They are real but the online versions don't include certain things like dealer association advertising fees, fuel, etc. so the actual dealer invoice will be around $400 higher than what you see online.

 

The kicker is that Ford and most other mfrs give their dealers back some of that dealer invoice cost - it's called holdback. On Ford it's 3% - others are either 2% or 3% and some of the imports may not have it at all. So even if a dealer sold the vehicle at invoice they still make 3% (I think it's 3% of MSRP but it might be 3% of invoice). But you also have to remember that most dealers floor plan their vehicles - they basically borrow the money to pay for the vehicle and pay interest on it each month until it sells. That will eat into the holdback as will any other real expenses that the dealership incurs.

 

Except for rare occasions when the dealer wants to move a specific car (maybe it's been on the lot for 6 months) you can't buy a car below dealer invoice (again there are exceptions but they are rare. Won't happen on a popular vehicle). If it's advertised that way then one of 3 things is happening:

 

1 - there is a factory rebate which the dealer is keeping. If the rebate is $1K and the dealer sells it to you for $500 below invoice but keeps the rebate then they really sold it for $500 over invoice.

 

2 - there is unadvertised factory to dealer cash (sometimes called marketing support) that the dealer is using just like a rebate. Edmunds usually lists these under incentives and if you're buying on A/X or Z plan you normally get to keep that cash yourself.

 

3 - the dealer is making it up with an unusually large "documentation" fee - otherwise known as additional dealer profit. This is normally $300-$400. Or they're forcing you to buy add-ons (paint protectant, glass etching, etc.) at inflated prices.

 

Hope that helps.

[Good_Hands]

Bravo akirby! Excellent post...very helpful.

 

Thank you!

[akirby]

Bravo akirby! Excellent post...very helpful.

 

Thank you!

 

Good thing I ignored your Avatar, huh?

[freedomlou]

Dealer invoice is the price on the invoice that the dealer pays Ford for the vehicle. These prices are published everywhere now - Edmunds, Kbb, etc. They are real but the online versions don't include certain things like dealer association advertising fees, fuel, etc. so the actual dealer invoice will be around $400 higher than what you see online.

 

The kicker is that Ford and most other mfrs give their dealers back some of that dealer invoice cost - it's called holdback. On Ford it's 3% - others are either 2% or 3% and some of the imports may not have it at all. So even if a dealer sold the vehicle at invoice they still make 3% (I think it's 3% of MSRP but it might be 3% of invoice). But you also have to remember that most dealers floor plan their vehicles - they basically borrow the money to pay for the vehicle and pay interest on it each month until it sells. That will eat into the holdback as will any other real expenses that the dealership incurs.

 

Except for rare occasions when the dealer wants to move a specific car (maybe it's been on the lot for 6 months) you can't buy a car below dealer invoice (again there are exceptions but they are rare. Won't happen on a popular vehicle). If it's advertised that way then one of 3 things is happening:

 

1 - there is a factory rebate which the dealer is keeping. If the rebate is $1K and the dealer sells it to you for $500 below invoice but keeps the rebate then they really sold it for $500 over invoice.

 

2 - there is unadvertised factory to dealer cash (sometimes called marketing support) that the dealer is using just like a rebate. Edmunds usually lists these under incentives and if you're buying on A/X or Z plan you normally get to keep that cash yourself.

 

3 - the dealer is making it up with an unusually large "documentation" fee - otherwise known as additional dealer profit. This is normally $300-$400. Or they're forcing you to buy add-ons (paint protectant, glass etching, etc.) at inflated prices.

 

Hope that helps.

To my knowledge these statements are correct to a point. Good job with the info.

 

First paragraph is correct.

 

Second paragraph is correct, with the exception of hold back is a percentage of invoice. I do not know the exact amount.

 

Third paragraph is correct, with the exception of #1 and #3. Dealer will give all rebate customer is entitle too (I speak for our dealership). Ford does audit dealers to make sure they comply with rebate programs and customers receive all entitle rebates. Dealers do charge a processing fee and it is posted in show room. At least in VA it must be posted. Other after market products are offered to customers, it is up to them to purchase or not.

 

Most invoice sales are for the main purpose of moving vehicles quickly and make room for more. Yes it does cost money to keep them on the lot.

[Good_Hands]

Good thing I ignored your Avatar, huh?

 

Probably so...lol.

 

But then again, those who it is meant for, know who they are.

 

(how is that for being evasively vague?)

[akirby]

Third paragraph is correct, with the exception of #1 and #3. Dealer will give all rebate customer is entitle too (I speak for our dealership). Ford does audit dealers to make sure they comply with rebate programs and customers receive all entitle rebates. Dealers do charge a processing fee and it is posted in show room. At least in VA it must be posted. Other after market products are offered to customers, it is up to them to purchase or not.

 

Lou - on the rebates what I meant was the dealer advertises a vehicle for $500 under invoice with the notation "dealer retains all rebates". It does not mean the dealer pockets the rebate without telling the customer. So if there is a $1K rebate the actual selling price is $500 over invoice - then the $1K rebate is credited on the order form making the final selling price $500 below invoice as advertised. I was not implying that the dealer pocketed the rebate without telling the customer. That obviously wouldn't be kosher.

 

A lot of dealers will go ahead and add those "optional" aftermarket accessories and options before they advertise the vehicle. So if you really want that vehicle at that price you have to take the options or as is or negotiate them.

[Grey]

I don't understand why you would think that a dealer should pass all incentives on to the customer. They usually don't, at least directly. Often they use Factory cash to over value the trade.

 

But as long as you think the dealer cost is what you find on Edmunds, etc. then good for you.

 

Often the salesperson won't even know the dealers net cost on a vehicle because it can change daily, by customer and by registation location. The net would only be available to the sales management team at the time of sale.

[akirby]

I don't understand why you would think that a dealer should pass all incentives on to the customer. They usually don't, at least directly. Often they use Factory cash to over value the trade.

 

But as long as you think the dealer cost is what you find on Edmunds, etc. then good for you.

 

That's true for dealer cash but not for factory to consumer rebates. Those rebates are offered directly to the consumer from the factory and have nothing to do with the dealer unless the buyer assigns the rebates to the dealer where they're subtracted from cost of the vehicle.

 

I did not say the dealer cost was what you find on Edmunds. You didn't read what I wrote.

[Grey]

Not you -

 

You know the drill. I should have said---

 

 

"But as long as the buyer thinks the dealer cost is what they find on Edmunds, etc. then good for them."

[gfhii]

Then someone explain this to me...

.

I paid, 1 week ago or so, $33, 750 for a 2008 Edge Limited, with Vista Sun Roof, and NAV system. That $33,750 included the delivery fee, and ALL dealer related costs. So, no gov taxes, license fee, etc. but thats it. Also, my contract states that all rebates and incentives, available at time of delivery, are mine to keep.

 

According to Edmunds, that is invoice. So....does that make sense to Anyone? Seems, from what you are saying, I shouldn't have been able to get that deal.

 

Thanks,

[akirby]

Then someone explain this to me...

.

I paid, 1 week ago or so, $33, 750 for a 2008 Edge Limited, with Vista Sun Roof, and NAV system. That $33,750 included the delivery fee, and ALL dealer related costs. So, no gov taxes, license fee, etc. but thats it. Also, my contract states that all rebates and incentives, available at time of delivery, are mine to keep.

 

According to Edmunds, that is invoice. So....does that make sense to Anyone? Seems, from what you are saying, I shouldn't have been able to get that deal.

 

Thanks,

 

You paid $33,750 TOTAL out the door? Was there a trade-in? Did that include Sales Tax or did they just leave off the sales tax? There are no incentives on the 08 Limited right now.

[gfhii]

You paid $33,750 TOTAL out the door? Was there a trade-in? Did that include Sales Tax or did they just leave off the sales tax? There are no incentives on the 08 Limited right now.

 

 

Hi Akirby:

 

I don't know what you mean by "out the door". This is what I paid.

 

$33,750 + sales tax, license fee + gov't regulatory fees (if any) MINUS (all rebates and incentives available when vehicle is ready - whatever those will be in a few weeks time). That's it. No doc fees, no admin fees, no other costs, no trade-in at all.

 

Uhm. Thoughts? Really interested in everyone's opinion.

Edited October 13, 2007 by gfhii

[Good_Hands]

Hi Akirby:

 

I don't know what you mean by "out the door". This is what I paid.

 

$33,750 + sales tax, license fee + gov't regulatory fees (if any) MINUS (all rebates and incentives available when vehicle is ready - whatever those will be in a few weeks time). That's it. No doc fees, no admin fees, no other costs, no trade-in at all.

 

Uhm. Thoughts? Really interested in everyone's opinion.

 

Out the door is basically the price you paid in order to drive off the lot.

 

So $33.750 is the price for the actual vehicle? After you added sales tax, license fee, gov't fees, and subtract rebates/incentives, etc. What did you pay?

 

Or is the $33,750 the price INCLUDING all those things? If so, then how much was the vehicle alone?

[gfhii]

Out the door is basically the price you paid in order to drive off the lot.

 

So $33.750 is the price for the actual vehicle? After you added sales tax, license fee, gov't fees, and subtract rebates/incentives, etc. What did you pay?

 

Or is the $33,750 the price INCLUDING all those things? If so, then how much was the vehicle alone?

 

 

I get. Ok, it was $33,750 and then they added sales tax, gov't fee and subtracted rebates/incentives. Since my 08 hasnt arrived yet, I dont know what those incentives/rebates will be, but am hoping for $1000!

 

What I am interested in is $33,750 a good price, not including these taxes and any rebates i get for my 08 limited with Vista and Nav.

 

Thanks

[akirby]

I get. Ok, it was $33,750 and then they added sales tax, gov't fee and subtracted rebates/incentives. Since my 08 hasnt arrived yet, I dont know what those incentives/rebates will be, but am hoping for $1000!

 

What I am interested in is $33,750 a good price, not including these taxes and any rebates i get for my 08 limited with Vista and Nav.

 

Thanks

 

If that's a 2WD, invoice is around $32,500 so that's a decent price. If it's a 4WD then that is actually just below dealer invoice which I find hard to believe given that it's an 08 limited.

[gfhii]

If that's a 2WD, invoice is around $32,500 so that's a decent price. If it's a 4WD then that is actually just below dealer invoice which I find hard to believe given that it's an 08 limited.

 

 

Woohoo!!!

 

 

It's an AWD Limited. So...I am a HAPPY CAMPER. Anyone else have a thought.

[akirby]

Woohoo!!!

It's an AWD Limited. So...I am a HAPPY CAMPER. Anyone else have a thought.

 

My thought is there's a catch somewhere unless you're related to the owner or have some incriminating pictures of someone.

[gfhii]

My thought is there's a catch somewhere unless you're related to the owner or have some incriminating pictures of someone.

 

 

LOL, That's hilarious!

 

Neither - as far as I can surmise, this is how it went down:

 

1. I researched the invoice price, MSRP and available rebates, etc for the 2008 Edge. This happened probably mid September. There wasn't a lot to be found out there, but of course, Edmunds had the appropriate information I was looking for.

 

2. I then contacted 2 dealers and told them I was buying next week, and I wanted their best price, all dealer expenses included. I told them I had driven the car and was only interested in a final price and that the price, when compared to others I was speaking with was going to decide who got the deal. I also told them that I was not going to haggle - 1 price and that was it.

 

3. I got a solid price from one dealer - the other played games and was cut. I then took that price and asked 2 more dealers to meet it, or beat it. One told me I should go for it, because it was unbeatable. The other, told me that prices for the 2008 Edge had not even been set yet, and that NO ONE had them, so my price must be based off of Edmunds and 2007 data. It was also his opinion that it was a great price.

 

4. I went back to the first dealer, my stalking horse, and bought the car. No fine print, very clear. 2008 Edge, AWD Limited, Vista Roof, Nav system, no financing, no leasing, just cash.

 

And there ends the saga :-)

[akirby]

And there ends the saga :-)

 

Umm....not quite. The saga doesn't end until you actually have the vehicle and you've signed all the paperwork.

 

I hope for your sake that it is a legitimate deal but when any dealer offers a vehicle like that for less than invoice it is very suspicious. If it was a vehicle that wasn't selling well or one that had been on the lot a long time - maybe.

 

Just keep a sharp eye on the paperwork and make sure they don't pull a fast one on you.

[Good_Hands]

Umm....not quite. The saga doesn't end until you actually have the vehicle and you've signed all the paperwork.

 

I hope for your sake that it is a legitimate deal but when any dealer offers a vehicle like that for less than invoice it is very suspicious. If it was a vehicle that wasn't selling well or one that had been on the lot a long time - maybe.

 

Just keep a sharp eye on the paperwork and make sure they don't pull a fast one on you.

 

From the way he speaks in his posts, he already has the car.

[gfhii]

Umm....not quite. The saga doesn't end until you actually have the vehicle and you've signed all the paperwork.

 

I hope for your sake that it is a legitimate deal but when any dealer offers a vehicle like that for less than invoice it is very suspicious. If it was a vehicle that wasn't selling well or one that had been on the lot a long time - maybe.

 

Just keep a sharp eye on the paperwork and make sure they don't pull a fast one on you.

 

oooh......

 

Now you have me a little worried.....I mean, I have a contract, with all of those terms in it. I've paid my down payment, etc. I'm going to label myself a noob here and ask....I have a detailed contract...what exactly can they pull on me? All I am waiting for is the vehicle to arrive from Ford.

Edited October 15, 2007 by gfhii

[Good_Hands]

oooh......

 

Now you have me a little worried.....I mean, I have a contract, with all of those terms in it. I'm going to label myself a noob here and ask....I have a detailed contract...what exactly can they pull on me?

 

I stand corrected. You don't have the vehicle already...

 

When do you get it?

[gfhii]

I stand corrected. You don't have the vehicle already...

 

When do you get it?

 

 

Well, I don't even have a VIM yet.....remember, I just bought this thing. Hopefully by mid November.....that's the date the dealer "guaranteed" it by.

 

As an aside, this is , I think (big I think here) , a Ford owned dealership...

Edited October 15, 2007 by gfhii

[akirby]

oooh......

 

Now you have me a little worried.....I mean, I have a contract, with all of those terms in it. I've paid my down payment, etc. I'm going to label myself a noob here and ask....I have a detailed contract...what exactly can they pull on me? All I am waiting for is the vehicle to arrive from Ford.

 

Well, they don't even have to sell it to you. They can come back tomorrow and say that they can't get the vehicle. What else they can change depends on the wording in the contract.

 

Not trying to scare you, just to warn you to be a little skeptical until the deal is done. And you might want to have a backup plan in case this deal falls through.