Narrowing down my new vehicle search

[007]

Then make sure you don't tailgate or follow too close.....that is a big factor in accidents...people who follow too close, and then can't stop in time....all the premium brake pads and ultra performing ABS systems in the world won't help if you are too close....the laws of physics prevail......

[rboe]

Then make sure you don't tailgate or follow too close.....that is a big factor in accidents...people who follow too close, and then can't stop in time....all the premium brake pads and ultra performing ABS systems in the world won't help if you are too close....the laws of physics prevail......

 

 

This so true and probably covers the majority of situations. While my brakes seem to be just fine (tire upgrades seem to be the biggest gain in stopping distance in our case) the case where something darts out in front of you and you need to swerve and/or stop - deer, child, car with lost brakes coming down a hill etc. And then the ever so popular inattentive driver doing something stupid and uses up any safety factor you may be using.

 

Excellent braking qualities will help you recover from some (never all) situations. Poor driving habits will ruin any perceived advantage great brakes give you.

 

Besides, we have a very nice car and I for one hate to see any part of it perform with less than stellar marks.

[Rockfish]

Then make sure you don't tailgate or follow too close.....that is a big factor in accidents...people who follow too close, and then can't stop in time....all the premium brake pads and ultra performing ABS systems in the world won't help if you are too close....the laws of physics prevail......

If you have been driving close to 30,000 miles per year for 37 years and have been successful with contending with idiots like aggressive, drunk etc types of drivers by just not following too closely you have been blessed. I prefer to have the best defensive driving tools available to me in my new car. This includes a clear mind, good sense to not be an idiot by following too close and having the "Edge" in stopping and maneuvering ability. If that means I upgrade my suspension, tires and brakes that is what I will do. I want all the advantages on my side.

[Good_Hands]

IMHO - every car has different brakes. My parents are in town and have rented a Ford 500. I do the driving when we all go out and I hate the brakes.

 

As 007 posted, you just have to be aware of what is going on around you. The best brakes in the world (and best driver) in the world will only do as well as they can if they are aware of what is going on around them.

 

I have taken many driving courses - from Government-trained evasive driving courses in Europe, to "race" type classes (mini-F1 cars) and I am very confident in the braking ability of my Edge.

 

I make sure there is ample room all around me. I am always aware of the sides of the road. I always glance in the rear view mirror to see how close (and what is going on behind) the car is back of me is.

 

The reason I am confident in the brakes on my Edge is because I am very confident in my ability as a driver.

[007]

Thank you, Good Hands....that's basically what I was trying to say.....by the way, I contribute $5000.00 a year to Allstate for my car insurance....5 cars, 2 drivers under 21, 2 over 50........

[Good_Hands]

Thank you, Good Hands....that's basically what I was trying to say.....by the way, I contribute $5000.00 a year to Allstate for my car insurance....5 cars, 2 drivers under 21, 2 over 50........

 

Bless you.

 

I knew you were a smart guy.

[amr40509]

Wow, I'm pretty disappointed at the attitude of a lot of people here! Blasting a guy for asking about a brake upgrade.

 

My wife and I are looking for a new car/suv for her, and drove past Ford on the way to look at the Highlander. She REALLY liked the Edge, and I think it's now in the top spot for her next car (she liked the Highlander, but we both hated the vague/light steering feel).

 

The ONE thing I logged on to this site to do a search for was info on the brakes. I have a background in sports cars/auto-x so I expect to stop in a decent amount of time. On the test drive I warned the dealer, then laid down the brakes from about 55-60mph. I was NOT impressed, they didn't grab well and actually faded in that short/slow of a stop. I did the test again, same result (tried on older pavement and brand new black top -- temps in the mid 80's). Dealer tried to tell me the brakes would be better if I drove an AWD (then I told him we WERE driving an AWD), then told me that brand new brake pads need to wear in...but the car had 550 miles on it...

 

I think there is a good chance we'll buy the car anyways (still looking at the Highlander, but she seems to like the Edge), but if '08 is going to bring better stopping, we can wait. Does anyone know if brakes are on the '08 list?

[akirby]

Wow, I'm pretty disappointed at the attitude of a lot of people here! Blasting a guy for asking about a brake upgrade.

 

My wife and I are looking for a new car/suv for her, and drove past Ford on the way to look at the Highlander. She REALLY liked the Edge, and I think it's now in the top spot for her next car (she liked the Highlander, but we both hated the vague/light steering feel).

 

The ONE thing I logged on to this site to do a search for was info on the brakes. I have a background in sports cars/auto-x so I expect to stop in a decent amount of time. On the test drive I warned the dealer, then laid down the brakes from about 55-60mph. I was NOT impressed, they didn't grab well and actually faded in that short/slow of a stop. I did the test again, same result (tried on older pavement and brand new black top -- temps in the mid 80's). Dealer tried to tell me the brakes would be better if I drove an AWD (then I told him we WERE driving an AWD), then told me that brand new brake pads need to wear in...but the car had 550 miles on it...

 

I think there is a good chance we'll buy the car anyways (still looking at the Highlander, but she seems to like the Edge), but if '08 is going to bring better stopping, we can wait. Does anyone know if brakes are on the '08 list?

 

Word is the 08s get better tires (I think some of the 07s already got them), probably Michelins, and that makes a big difference. Not sure if they upgraded the braking system or not - they wouldn't really advertise that anyway.

[amr40509]

Word is the 08s get better tires (I think some of the 07s already got them), probably Michelins, and that makes a big difference. Not sure if they upgraded the braking system or not - they wouldn't really advertise that anyway.

 

 

Could be the tires, had the Hankook's on it. I felt one or two quick ABS pulses when I first stomped it, then it just didn't feel like it had the power to actually push the tires all the way to almost locked. This was dry/warm pavement. The past cars I've had that had ABS seemed to keep pulsing a bit through the whole process. Then again, they also felt like they were sucking my eyeballs out, and had Z rated, 100 tread wear rated, performance tires.

 

Even my '06 Pathfinder 4X4 w/ it's junk stock General Grabber tires FEELS like it is stopping harder and faster, and also keeping the fade free force applied.

[akirby]

Wow, I'm pretty disappointed at the attitude of a lot of people here! Blasting a guy for asking about a brake upgrade.

 

There's a big difference between saying "I'd like to upgrade the brakes" versus "the brakes are horrible and they're not safe".

[amr40509]

There's a big difference between saying "I'd like to upgrade the brakes" versus "the brakes are horrible and they're not safe".

 

 

I agree. I also agree that when this is going to be my wife car, to transport my kids, I'd like the thing to stop like it should. In my test drive, I felt they were sub standard. It COULD have been the one unit I drove. Otherwise it drove GREAT, but it stopped so badly that it makes me have serious reservations about it. So I can see where someone might say that.

 

Now I know that you can drive like you have bad brakes. My family boats, so I tow about 5000lbs on the weekends with my SUV. Even with good trailer brakes, I KNOW I cannot stop/go/turn like I would otherwise be able to. I don't think I am unsafe. I do think I am LESS safe then if I didn't have the trailer back there.

 

It seems like the weak link in an otherwise solid platform, so I think it's fair to ask what is being done to correct it. Brakes are a saftey issue that people would upgrade because to improve saftey. It's not like he was talking about upgrading the speakers for better sound, if he didn't feel he needed better brakes, he wouldn't have wanted to see about upgrading.

[akirby]

I agree. I also agree that when this is going to be my wife car, to transport my kids, I'd like the thing to stop like it should. In my test drive, I felt they were sub standard. It COULD have been the one unit I drove. Otherwise it drove GREAT, but it stopped so badly that it makes me have serious reservations about it. So I can see where someone might say that.

 

Now I know that you can drive like you have bad brakes. My family boats, so I tow about 5000lbs on the weekends with my SUV. Even with good trailer brakes, I KNOW I cannot stop/go/turn like I would otherwise be able to. I don't think I am unsafe. I do think I am LESS safe then if I didn't have the trailer back there.

 

It seems like the weak link in an otherwise solid platform, so I think it's fair to ask what is being done to correct it. Brakes are a saftey issue that people would upgrade because to improve saftey. It's not like he was talking about upgrading the speakers for better sound, if he didn't feel he needed better brakes, he wouldn't have wanted to see about upgrading.

 

That wasn't directed at you or your comments. There have been similar accusations on other forums so there's more to this than just what you see here.

[amr40509]

That wasn't directed at you or your comments. There have been similar accusations on other forums so there's more to this than just what you see here.

 

 

Ah I see. I'm new to looking at the Edge, so I guess I missed the back story on this. Are you talking about the same guy trolling on other forums, or other people mentioning the bad brakes??

 

Personally, I noticed they were weak w/ in 2 miles of the dealer. If the Highlander had better steering feel, I would have taken the car back to Ford right there. BUT, this is the wife's call anyways, it's her car. I drive what I want, she drives what she wants. I just want to be sure she is getting a good safe car, and see if it will be a better/safer car in '08.

[akirby]

Ah I see. I'm new to looking at the Edge, so I guess I missed the back story on this. Are you talking about the same guy trolling on other forums, or other people mentioning the bad brakes??

 

Both. People jumped all over the pre-production test results that were worse than they should have been (probably due to worn tires and brakes). One person went so far as to say it was dangerous and needed to be recalled.

 

There's nothing wrong with wanting better braking. A set of performance brake pads and new stickier tires should really put it right in the mid 130's and fully competitive. Stainless brake lines will help the spongy pedal if that's still a problem.

[07 MKX]

How many of you people have actually checked your tire pressure? Mine was shipped from the factory with 44 PSI. The vehicle states 35 front and rear. Lower your pressures. I've never seen anyone mention this once.

 

35 PSI.

[sranger]

Guys, at the end of the day, better braking is almost always a desirable feature in a car. I drive in some of the worst high speed traffic in the country and there are many times where you simply cannot help having to slam on the brakes due to some other idiot. My most recent experiance involved a ladder falling off a truck in front of me...

 

The plain and simple truth is that the braking ability of the Edge is below average for what even reason. There have been many published tests on both pre and post production Edges to back this up. Edmunds tested a pre-production vehicle and took 150+ feet. They then added a production vehicle to their long term test fleet and it took 146ft to stop. So, I think it is fair to rule out the "pre-production defence".

 

I drove a loaner MKX for a day a while back that had BF Goodrich KDW Tires on it. It did not seem to stop any better than the Edge I have now with the Cooper tires. I honestly do not think the tires are the sole reason why the Edge has rather long stopping distances.

 

There is no reason that a vehicle like the Edge with 4 wheel disc should not be able to stop is 125-130ft.

 

While an extra 10-20' might not seem like much, it does increase your odd of having an accident. It very well may be an acceptable amount additional risk, but it also does not hurt to look at your options. I am willing to bet that most people would pay $100 or so for better pads if it shorted the stoping distance by 10-15 feet ( especially when it is time to change them.... )

Edited September 5, 2007 by sranger

[rboe]

There is no reason that a vehicle like the Edge with 4 wheel disc should not be able to stop is 125-130ft.

 

While an extra 10-20' might not seem like much, it does increase your odd of having an accident. It very well may be an acceptable amount additional risk, but it also does not hurt to look at your options. I am willing to bet that most people would pay $100 or so for better pads if it shorted the stoping distance by 10-15 feet ( especially when it is time to change them.... )

 

For $100 I'd hope for 20' - but I'd do it. Tires - I'll wait till I get some use out of mine. 146 feet is not bad, it's just not that great and should be better.

[Rockfish]

There's a big difference between saying "I'd like to upgrade the brakes" versus "the brakes are horrible and they're not safe".

Who was saying "the brakes are horrible and they're not safe"?

I have read comments about the Edge brakes not being up to par on other forums and within almost every car review on the Edge. I have been looking for suggestions on upgrades. I received several constructive comments regarding brakes (Porterfield R-4S), rotors (J-Hook, Slotted or Cross-Drilled Rotors) and tires on this forum.

Guess what, a number of other people think the Edge has a lot going for it but have questions about the brakes. It apparently has been discussed for a long time by a lot of people possibly making some more sensitive to the "brake" question then others and are quick to think any one that brings up the subject is "Ford Bashing". I for one am please with some on this forum responded with enough solutions to my questions about the brakes on the Edge that I have scratch the problem off my problem list and feel comfortable that around $1500 will provide the braking power I expect.

 

Let's continue to be constructive with responses to the brake question so potential Edge buyers will understand options available.

[akirby]

Who was saying "the brakes are horrible and they're not safe"?

I have read comments about the Edge brakes not being up to par on other forums and within almost every car review on the Edge. I have been looking for suggestions on upgrades. I received several constructive comments regarding brakes (Porterfield R-4S), rotors (J-Hook, Slotted or Cross-Drilled Rotors) and tires on this forum.

Guess what, a number of other people think the Edge has a lot going for it but have questions about the brakes. It apparently has been discussed for a long time by a lot of people possibly making some more sensitive to the "brake" question then others and are quick to think any one that brings up the subject is "Ford Bashing". I for one am please with some on this forum responded with enough solutions to my questions about the brakes on the Edge that I have scratch the problem off my problem list and feel comfortable that around $1500 will provide the braking power I expect.

 

Let's continue to be constructive with responses to the brake question so potential Edge buyers will understand options available.

 

Some of us are tired of people making a mountain out of a molehill, that's all. Yes, the brakes could be better but they're hardly unsafe despite what sranger and others believe. There are other vehicles that take longer to stop but they don't get the same scrutiny. Same with the weight - reviewers and posters chastise the Edge for being heavy while ignoring other similar vehicles that weigh much more (Touraeg and X5 e.g.). It's such a double standard.

 

As for upgrading rotors for better stopping - don't bother unless you're making them bigger with new calipers. Just do the pads and stainless steel brake lines and possibly new tires depending on what the 08s come with. It's not rocket science.

 

If 10 feet is so damned important, why not spend the extra money for an X5. It stops in 125 feet. If 135 is so much safer than 146 then 125 should be twice as safe.

 

Sorry, but we've been over this 27 times and the answer is the same.

[sranger]

Some of us are tired of people making a mountain out of a molehill, that's all. Yes, the brakes could be better but they're hardly unsafe despite what sranger and others believe. There are other vehicles that take longer to stop but they don't get the same scrutiny. Same with the weight - reviewers and posters chastise the Edge for being heavy while ignoring other similar vehicles that weigh much more (Touraeg and X5 e.g.). It's such a double standard.

 

As for upgrading rotors for better stopping - don't bother unless you're making them bigger with new calipers. Just do the pads and stainless steel brake lines and possibly new tires depending on what the 08s come with. It's not rocket science.

 

If 10 feet is so damned important, why not spend the extra money for an X5. It stops in 125 feet. If 135 is so much safer than 146 then 125 should be twice as safe.

 

Sorry, but we've been over this 27 times and the answer is the same.

 

 

First of all I never said it was unsafe. You made that statment up. I simply said it was below average and that statment is 100% true. I suspect that better shocks, pads and SS lines will have the Edge stoping in about 125ft without much fade....

 

That is my opinion, and I will see if it is valid or not...

 

P.S. I fail to see how I am a Ford basher or hater. I currently own an 2007 Edge and 2005 Mustang GT. I previously owned a 2005 Mercury Mariner, 2000 Ford F150 and a 1997 Ford Ranger. I would say that clearly states what I prefer to drive....

Edited September 6, 2007 by sranger

[Rockfish]

Some of us are tired of people making a mountain out of a molehill, that's all. Yes, the brakes could be better but they're hardly unsafe despite what sranger and others believe. There are other vehicles that take longer to stop but they don't get the same scrutiny. Same with the weight - reviewers and posters chastise the Edge for being heavy while ignoring other similar vehicles that weigh much more (Touraeg and X5 e.g.). It's such a double standard.

 

As for upgrading rotors for better stopping - don't bother unless you're making them bigger with new calipers. Just do the pads and stainless steel brake lines and possibly new tires depending on what the 08s come with. It's not rocket science.

 

If 10 feet is so damned important, why not spend the extra money for an X5. It stops in 125 feet. If 135 is so much safer than 146 then 125 should be twice as safe.

 

Sorry, but we've been over this 27 times and the answer is the same.

If you are tired of the Edge brake issues then ignore posts on the topic. If you think a "troll" is in the forum then "don't feed the troll". You will not be fired for skipping a thread on brakes. You may have been over it 27 times but this is my first time discussing it since I have started a vehicle search to replace my 99 Dodge minivan with 155,000 + miles. I signed up in this forum to determine if the brake "problem" will be addressed by Ford in 08 or will I have to live with it or upgrade. Since I prefer not to live with it I have been looking for upgrade options which have been discussed here and I appreciate it.

I am still pursuing information on how much the upgrades will improve braking to know where I will get the best bang for my buck. To me the brake upgrade discussion with the constructive comments have made an excellent thread that the others with concerns about the Edge brakes should find helpful.

[akirby]

First of all I never said it was unsafe. You made that statment up. I simply said it was below average and that statment is 100% true.

 

You mean you don't remember saying this?

 

So far, the Edge is not getting very good reviews. If the braking tests are accurate, I would not buy one as it would be a safety issue driving in Atlanta traffic.

 

Nobody said you were a Ford basher. I just think you're exaggerating the brake deficiencies.

 

Let's say the Michelins get it down to 138 feet. Is that acceptable? What is the magic number? How much improvement is enough?

[akirby]

If you are tired of the Edge brake issues then ignore posts on the topic. If you think a "troll" is in the forum then "don't feed the troll". You will not be fired for skipping a thread on brakes. You may have been over it 27 times but this is my first time discussing it since I have started a vehicle search to replace my 99 Dodge minivan with 155,000 + miles. I signed up in this forum to determine if the brake "problem" will be addressed by Ford in 08 or will I have to live with it or upgrade. Since I prefer not to live with it I have been looking for upgrade options which have been discussed here and I appreciate it.

I am still pursuing information on how much the upgrades will improve braking to know where I will get the best bang for my buck. To me the brake upgrade discussion with the constructive comments have made an excellent thread that the others with concerns about the Edge brakes should find helpful.

 

There aren't any trolls here - just a few people who I think are blowing the issue out of proportion. Yes, the brakes can be improved and I've already told you how to do that - twice. Change the pads, change the tires (the new Michelins might have you covered there) and add stainless steel brake lines. That's all you can do unless you want to go for a complete big brake kit. Nobody has numbers on these improvements and they're not likely to anytime soon. Those that have the upgrades (if there are any) aren't likely to have the equipment to go out and measure the stopping distance.

 

My point is you have the options and it's not likely you'll find someone who's made these changes and done before and after testing.

 

Here is what one of the Stoptech engineers had to say about brakes (this was from a private email when Stoptech was engineering a brake kit for the Lincoln LS):

 

Stopping distance results on modern cars, are primarily a function of tire

and ABS system performance, as long as the wheel end components have

sufficient force to lock up the brakes and are compatible with the ABS. Any

difference (improvement) observed is often due to the earlier onset of

useful work beginning due to the low component flex (compliance) or a better

balance of front vs. rear torque reaction considering the available tire

traction capacity. The former characteristic is most noticeable in test

with high "start of test" vehicle speeds and can also be noticed as better

pedal "feel". Once ABS has become active, the tire to road friction

performance or traction capacity primarily dictates the stopping

performance, so long as there is a surplus of available torque reaction on

both the front and the rear at a given pedal effort.

 

All I can say is there was a very noticeable (but not measured) difference in stopping power when I switched from the Ford OEM sport pads to the Porterfield R4S pads - no other changes. The test LS was fitted with 18" ultra high performance tires and the R4S pads and stopped from 60 in 114 feet. I believe stock was between 125-135 feet for the sport models. So that should give you an idea of what to expect with better tires and R4S pads (not the 114 feet but I'd guess you'll improve 10-15 feet).

[007]

Jesus H Christ on a crutch....if you don't like the goddamn brakes, don't buy the goddamn car. Quit yer bitchin'!

[sranger]

You mean you don't remember saying this?

Nobody said you were a Ford basher. I just think you're exaggerating the brake deficiencies.

 

Let's say the Michelins get it down to 138 feet. Is that acceptable? What is the magic number? How much improvement is enough?

 

I made that statment after the first published review of a pre-production Edge that took and average of 158ft to stop with the longest test at 162ft. So yes, when I posted that comment I felt like 160ft in a 2007 vehicle could be considered unsafe in the conditions where I currently drive. I think most reasonable people would agree.

 

After my own testing and other reviews it is obvious that it takes about 145ft or so to stop from 60mph in a production Edge. I still think that is way too long for a modern vehicle, but I would not conside that unsafe. It will however, increase your odd to some extent of being in an accident as I stated earlier. Many vehicle in the class are in the 125-130ft range. This is where the Edge should be with normal street tires and braking system in my opinion.

 

You can try to twist my word all you want, but it still will not change the fact that the braking ability of the Edge is below average. I also see nothing wrong with some of us who wish to make improvements discussing options.

 

I am not going to argue with you any more on this as it is pointless, but I will continue post any information I can find that can be shown to make improvements to the braking system. There are obviously people on the board who would like to discuss the issue...