Narrowing down my new vehicle search

[Rockfish]

I am looking at purchasing a new vehicle and have narrowed my search down to 3 choices:

Ford Edge, Dodge Nitro and GMC Acadia.

 

I want the Ford to be number one on my list since it has a lot of great looks, good cargo capacity and fantastic safety when you have a crash but I have a concern about the stopping distance that is keeping me from pulling the trigger on the purchase.

 

The stopping distance I have seen reported are:

Ford Edge (weight 4000+) 152 foot 60-0 stop;

Dodge Nitro (weight 4000+) 122 feet 60-0 stop;

GMC Acadia (weight 4900+) 134 feet 60-0 stop;

 

I have heard the tires and pads may be part of the reason but has any reviewer developed revised stopping distances with improved tires or pads?

How much has the stopping improved with these changes?

Do any changes for 2008MY address this issue?

 

The 30 feet difference between the Dodge and Ford in my mind is significant and as I said above is keeping me from writing the check for the Edge.

[07 MKX]

get the Dodge

 

:beatdeadhorse:

[Rockfish]

get the Dodge

 

:beatdeadhorse:

I like your animation but I don't want to give up on the Edge that easily since it has so much going for it.

 

I am willing to upgrade tires and brake pads on a new Edge but I would like to know if it will work and what will the improvement in stopping be.

Edited August 29, 2007 by Rockfish

[Good_Hands]

I like your animation but I don't want to give up on the Edge that easily since it has so much going for it.

 

I am willing to upgrade tires and brake pads on a new Edge but I would like to know if it will work and what will the improvement in stopping be.

 

If you upgrade your brake pads, you will stop sooner. Which means a shorter distance from when your foot first engages (and presses) the brake pedal til the time your vehicle comes to a complete stop.

[Rockfish]

If you upgrade your brake pads, you will stop sooner. Which means a shorter distance from when your foot first engages (and presses) the brake pedal til the time your vehicle comes to a complete stop.

Thanks for the reply.

 

Do you know of any tests that have been completed with upgraded pads? Which brands are best and how much will the stopping distance improve?

 

I have looked back on prior discussions in this forum and have seen some discussion on the stopping distance but did not see any conclusions or results on improvements with different tires or upgraded pads.

 

I also saw an article refering to vented rotors possibly helping. Have you heard this and what brands will fit without changing the calipers.

[jeffreybehr]

Rockfish: "I also saw an article refering to vented rotors possibly helping. Have you heard this and what brands will fit without changing the calipers."

 

The front rotors of my AWD model are vented and about 12-1/2" diameter; I've not examined FWD versions but apparently they're slightly smaller. Here http://www.fordedgeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=784 is some discussion of aftermarket rotors and pads.

 

Ford Motorsports has some large-rotor kits; I may investigate those.

[akirby]

I am looking at purchasing a new vehicle and have narrowed my search down to 3 choices:

Ford Edge, Dodge Nitro and GMC Acadia.

 

I want the Ford to be number one on my list since it has a lot of great looks, good cargo capacity and fantastic safety when you have a crash but I have a concern about the stopping distance that is keeping me from pulling the trigger on the purchase.

 

The stopping distance I have seen reported are:

Ford Edge (weight 4000+) 152 foot 60-0 stop;

Dodge Nitro (weight 4000+) 122 feet 60-0 stop;

GMC Acadia (weight 4900+) 134 feet 60-0 stop;

 

I have heard the tires and pads may be part of the reason but has any reviewer developed revised stopping distances with improved tires or pads?

How much has the stopping improved with these changes?

Do any changes for 2008MY address this issue?

 

The 30 feet difference between the Dodge and Ford in my mind is significant and as I said above is keeping me from writing the check for the Edge.

 

There isn't a 30 foot difference. Motorweek tested both an Edge and a Nitro. The Edge stopped in 146 feet from 60 and the Nitro in 140 feet. Most of the poor stopping distances for the Edge came with pre-production models. Motorweek's test was a production model.

 

Stickier tires make a big difference and that's already been addressed on the MKX with Michelins. Not sure about the Edge.

 

Porterfield R4S carbon kevlar brake pads work great but tend to squeal and aren't great then they're cold. EBC is another choice.

 

Don't you find it interesting that owners who know about the brake complaints don't seem to have a problem with them?

[Rockfish]

Don't you find it interesting that owners who know about the brake complaints don't seem to have a problem with them?

Thanks for the info. I am keeping track of the suggestions in case I purchase the Edge.

 

Yes, I do find it interesting that I do not read more discussion on this issue. It may be that the tests I read about were not valid or had extenuating circumstances. It may be owners have not had to panic stop yet. I am not sure what the answer is which is why I am asking the questions.

 

What I would like to read are results of tests that show braking at least as good as the Acadia even if the results are based on upgraded tires, rotors, pads and calipers.

Have you seen any stopping test results that support an improvement in braking.

[akirby]

Thanks for the info. I am keeping track of the suggestions in case I purchase the Edge.

 

Yes, I do find it interesting that I do not read more discussion on this issue. It may be that the tests I read about were not valid or had extenuating circumstances. It may be owners have not had to panic stop yet. I am not sure what the answer is which is why I am asking the questions.

 

What I would like to read are results of tests that show braking at least as good as the Acadia even if the results are based on upgraded tires, rotors, pads and calipers.

Have you seen any stopping test results that support an improvement in braking.

 

No, I haven't seen any new tests. Motorweek puts the Outlook braking at 135 feet, or 11 feet shorter than the Edge. I would bet that Porterfield pads would make up most if not all of that difference (based on tests performed with a stock Lincoln LS) and would almost guarantee it with both new pads and Michelins.

 

My question is how did you decide that 135 feet is the magic number? If 135 is that much safer than 145, then why not go for 125? Wouldn't it be even more safer? Where do you stop?

 

Think about it rationally - when will it make a difference? Only when you're doing a panic stop where you have no room to steer around something and only when the distance to stop is between 135 and 146 feet. If it's more than 146 you'll stop anyway. Less than 135 feet and you can't stop. And then what's the difference? A minor fender bender? Unless you're headed for a cliff the extra 10 feet isn't going to make a big difference anyway.

[Smiley]

Rockfish, I hear what your saying and I have followed all the good and the bad about the Edge too especially with braking concerns. I would tend to trust Motorweek and have seen the review on video via Cars.com site and indeed its 146 ft. I plan on up-grading brake pads and tires once they wear out to something better. But with almost 90,000 combined cars sold trough July 2007 I would wager to say that somebody has had a panic stop by now. Anyway brakes can be improved upon but and I always find that TIRES and the rubber adheasion to the road is my best improvement as I tend to buy tires with softer durometers for best wet traction and sacrifice for better wear. YMMV and best of luck in your choices.

[Scott S]

We chose the Edge over the Nitro for the handling. There was no comparison. Do a back to back test ride and the Edge will be on it's way to a new home. Be sure to do an abandoned parking lot run to really compare for yourself. Panic stop, swerve, and run her in tight circles alternating direction. The Edge will give you the ability to miss things rather than nail them due to it's superb emergency maneuver manners.

 

As for the brakes, I find them pretty darn decent. Our 07 Edge SEL AWD came factory fitted with the Michelins.

 

I towed for the first time this week to the cottage and the Edge performed flawless dragging the extra 2000lbs out back, 5 people and a hatch full of gear.

 

What I have found is the Edge likes to be driven. You can push it pretty darn far for a CUV.

[DJ Starr]

So for the most part, we all like our Edge's.....

 

We have not had any perceived braking issues to date......

 

We have enough faith in the vehicle AND Ford as a whole, to transport ourselves and often our families in the vehicles, is that safe to assume?

 

If so, then why on EARTH are we hammering this poor person for asking around? It sounds defensive to me. I am a father of two young girls and these would seem to be legitimate concerns to me prior to purchase had I read about them. He/She comes here to prod a little and we lambaste rockfish? It just doesn't add up.

 

I mean seriously '07 MKX' telling rockfish to buy the nitro just because a million other people have inquired about the same issue is abrasive at best. As if rockfish knows or to that end cares what other people have asked. This is rock's question, man up and help this person out with reasonable info/ideas or let the thread be.

 

I can say when I read about these 'issues' I took the Edge out on country roads and ran it HARD. I ran her up to 111 numerous times and hammered the brakes. Cold stops, hot stops, the whole nine yards. I was pleased with its' performance although I am not sure what I would have done had I not been.

 

Input like this may help, not sure...but certainly 'buy a nitro' has little added value to the forum. No I am not the forum cop but I come here for info and even comradarie. I have come to actually appreciate your banter but newbies have no idea. Sorry for publicly outting you, a lot of posters on this forum have been doing this as of late, yours just stuck out a bit.

 

Ok, now that, that is off my chest, flame away. I will step away from the fire so as not to get burned.........

 

And seriously, the cliff analogy? It did cross my mind when the bridge collapsed. Irrational indeed but close to home as well.....

Edited August 30, 2007 by DJ Starr

[07 MKX]

:beatdeadhorse: :beatdeadhorse: :beatdeadhorse: :beatdeadhorse:

 

get the Dodge

[Rockfish]

Thanks for the enthusiasm regarding the Edge. I can definitely see you guys are enjoying your vehicles.

 

I can also see why the beating a dead horse animation has been used. I looked back on discussions about brakes on this forum and some other forums and have read multiple discussion on brakes. This seems to be the only major concern regarding the Edge. There are a number of one off problems or tinsel and glitter suggestions but everyone seems very satisfied with their Edge EXCEPT for this one issue.

 

Has Ford given any guidance on this for 2008? I hope the dead horse animation is not Ford way of ignoring the one major concern with the Edge.

 

I may jump into some of the TECH threads to see if braking test results are available on upgraded pads and rotors. Fortunately, brakes are one of the areas on cars I can still work on myself.

[akirby]

Thanks for the enthusiasm regarding the Edge. I can definitely see you guys are enjoying your vehicles.

 

I can also see why the beating a dead horse animation has been used. I looked back on discussions about brakes on this forum and some other forums and have read multiple discussion on brakes. This seems to be the only major concern regarding the Edge. There are a number of one off problems or tinsel and glitter suggestions but everyone seems very satisfied with their Edge EXCEPT for this one issue.

 

Has Ford given any guidance on this for 2008? I hope the dead horse animation is not Ford way of ignoring the one major concern with the Edge.

 

I may jump into some of the TECH threads to see if braking test results are available on upgraded pads and rotors. Fortunately, brakes are one of the areas on cars I can still work on myself.

 

But you're missing the point. Owners aren't complaining about the braking - only the magazine reviewers who used pre-production models. Owners who have actually tested the brakes say they work perfectly fine. You're getting carried away with test numbers much like some people get carried away with 0-60 numbers.

 

Find one with Michelin tires and you'll be fine. If you want to upgrade the pads that will help even more. Why do you need to see test numbers? Relax!

[Rockfish]

But you're missing the point. Owners aren't complaining about the braking - only the magazine reviewers who used pre-production models. Owners who have actually tested the brakes say they work perfectly fine. You're getting carried away with test numbers much like some people get carried away with 0-60 numbers.

 

Find one with Michelin tires and you'll be fine. If you want to upgrade the pads that will help even more. Why do you need to see test numbers? Relax!

99.999% of the time the brakes stop a car without redesigning the bumper, hood or passenger compartment. I would like to even increase that precent more and have my next vehicle not give me unexpected opportunties to meet other people. I read my test numbers fom the Edmunds review that said

"The brakes are the major disappointment: Pedal feel is progressive, but during instrumented testing conducted at our test track, a 2007 Ford Edge test vehicle needed 152 feet to stop from 60 mph. Its competitors stop in the 120s."

 

If I decide on the Edge, I will obtain the new tires and possibly pads, rotors and calipers. Brakes are still one area on a car I can work on.

 

Why do you need to see test numbers?

I am from the school of thought that "trusts but verifies".

[jeffreybehr]

Rockfish, I think I understand your position on the Edge's brakes. I too feel that excellent brakes are important to not only the feeling of being safe but the reality of being safe while driving a vehicle. Over the decades, I've spent thou$and$ improving brakes on several vehicles, so I put my money where my mouth is.

 

In no particular order, here are some thoughts.

1. The AWD chassis has slightly larger front brakes, and the rotors are vented.

2. Porterfield R-4S (for 'street') pads do indeed have high friction hot and cold, in spite of another poster's comments. That combination, plus the fact that they're virtually dust free, makes them the best pads money can buy, IMO. Also, I've used them on 3 vehicles and NONE has squealed, so I don't know where that comment comes from.

3. I still plan to investigate Ford Motorsports brake systems for the front of my Edge.

4. ALL vehicles are compromises. The looks of the Edge appealed to me first, then its features, then its price. I'm 'fixing' those characteristics--exhaust and audio systems, unpainted exterior body parts, ugly wheels, etc.--I'm not happy with. I suggest you buy the best compromise you can find and then improve what needs it. I'm NOT at all nervous about my Edge's braking performance, but I'll still be investigating better brakes in a few months.

[Rockfish]

Rockfish, I think I understand your position on the Edge's brakes. I too feel that excellent brakes are important to not only the feeling of being safe but the reality of being safe while driving a vehicle. Over the decades, I've spent thou$and$ improving brakes on several vehicles, so I put my money where my mouth is.

 

In no particular order, here are some thoughts.

1. The AWD chassis has slightly larger front brakes, and the rotors are vented.

2. Porterfield R-4S (for 'street') pads do indeed have high friction hot and cold, in spite of another poster's comments. That combination, plus the fact that they're virtually dust free, makes them the best pads money can buy, IMO. Also, I've used them on 3 vehicles and NONE has squealed, so I don't know where that comment comes from.

3. I still plan to investigate Ford Motorsports brake systems for the front of my Edge.

4. ALL vehicles are compromises. The looks of the Edge appealed to me first, then its features, then its price. I'm 'fixing' those characteristics--exhaust and audio systems, unpainted exterior body parts, ugly wheels, etc.--I'm not happy with. I suggest you buy the best compromise you can find and then improve what needs it. I'm NOT at all nervous about my Edge's braking performance, but I'll still be investigating better brakes in a few months.

Jeffreybehr, this is the type of info I am looking for. some specifics on upgrading the stopping power. I spotted your discussions in the tech and mod areas of the forum and will be looking forward to reading about the results of some of the upgrades your guys are doing with the brakes.

 

I am looking at the FWD since I am not intending to do offroad driving and FWD seems to work for me in the rain and snow as long as I have good tread on my tires.

 

Please keep the forum updated with your findings regarding brake upgrades and thanks for your help.

[akirby]

2. Porterfield R-4S (for 'street') pads do indeed have high friction hot and cold, in spite of another poster's comments. That combination, plus the fact that they're virtually dust free, makes them the best pads money can buy, IMO. Also, I've used them on 3 vehicles and NONE has squealed, so I don't know where that comment comes from.

 

The Porterfield R4S pads on a Lincoln LS definitely squeal and they definitely don't work very well when cold. This was verified by at least 3 different LS owners including ME. I still liked them and they stop like you threw out an anchor except for that first stop of the day. I'd still recommend them for max stopping power and it's possible these problems were unique to the LS application. But they are real.

[Rockfish]

I looked up the Porterfield web site and found the following:

"R4-S High Performance Street and Autocross

For high performance and heavy-duty street conditions. Perfect for prolonged everyday street use while also being capable of tolerating the most severe street use without any fade. Rotor friendly of course. The R4-S friction level will give you an impressive increase in stopping ability with very minimum pedal effort. R4-S compound has the absolute lowest noise and dust levels, far below OEM equipment or any other high performance brake material. Good for autocrossing, some drivers' schools, and rallies. The R4-S compound is available for virtually any vehicle sold in the US. We also offer the R4-S in pad sizes for competition type calipers that are used under street driven conditions. "

 

Are these the one you are saying has an anchor that drops when the brake petal is depressed. :hyper:

 

I did not see an Edge listing in their catalog but they say on their site they have brakes for most cars. It looks like the cost will be from $129 to $200. I can handle that and should be able to drop them in myself to save on labor costs.

 

Do you know of any test results that are available to show the advantage of Porterfield over OEM?

[akirby]

I looked up the Porterfield web site and found the following:

"R4-S High Performance Street and Autocross

For high performance and heavy-duty street conditions. Perfect for prolonged everyday street use while also being capable of tolerating the most severe street use without any fade. Rotor friendly of course. The R4-S friction level will give you an impressive increase in stopping ability with very minimum pedal effort. R4-S compound has the absolute lowest noise and dust levels, far below OEM equipment or any other high performance brake material. Good for autocrossing, some drivers' schools, and rallies. The R4-S compound is available for virtually any vehicle sold in the US. We also offer the R4-S in pad sizes for competition type calipers that are used under street driven conditions. "

 

Are these the one you are saying has an anchor that drops when the brake petal is depressed. :hyper:

 

I did not see an Edge listing in their catalog but they say on their site they have brakes for most cars. It looks like the cost will be from $129 to $200. I can handle that and should be able to drop them in myself to save on labor costs.

 

Do you know of any test results that are available to show the advantage of Porterfield over OEM?

 

Yes, but I'll have to find them. The stock calipers and rotors with the Porterfield pads stopped within a few feet of a prototype Stoptech big brake kit (as tested by the Stoptech engineers). They were very impressed both by the pads and the LS stock brake system. Don't know if the Edge will perform similarly but it should be quite an improvement.

[sranger]

Well,

 

I just bought my Edge and I can tell the brakes are not quite where I would like for them to be. I will be investigating an upgrade for them. I have upgraded the brakes on several vehicles.

 

One thing that people often overlook when upgrading brakes is the shocks. A variable rate shock that cuts down on nose dive can have significant effect on braking. The less the nose dives the more force can be applied to the rear brakes to help stop the vehicle. It will also typically improve handling.

 

I am not quite sure what the issue is. The Rotors are certianly big enough to stop well. It may all boil down to over agressive ABS tuning....

[Rockfish]

Well,

 

I just bought my Edge and I can tell the brakes are not quite where I would like for them to be. I will be investigating an upgrade for them. I have upgraded the brakes on several vehicles.

 

One thing that people often overlook when upgrading brakes is the shocks. A variable rate shock that cuts down on nose dive can have significant effect on braking. The less the nose dives the more force can be applied to the rear brakes to help stop the vehicle. It will also typically improve handling.

 

I am not quite sure what the issue is. The Rotors are certianly big enough to stop well. It may all boil down to over agressive ABS tuning....

Please keep us up to date on what you try and how it works.

[007]

This is just a case of being overloaded with information. The brakes work. The car stops. If you go around having panic stops, then you need to go to driver's ed., or take a defensive driving course. In the 37 years and million plus miles I've been driving, I've had to make one, maybe two "panic" stops....I've driven to 42 of the 50 States, 5 Canadian Provinces, I've driven in England...

[Rockfish]

This is just a case of being overloaded with information. The brakes work. The car stops. If you go around having panic stops, then you need to go to driver's ed., or take a defensive driving course. In the 37 years and million plus miles I've been driving, I've had to make one, maybe two "panic" stops....I've driven to 42 of the 50 States, 5 Canadian Provinces, I've driven in England...

Congratulations on your successful driving.

 

I just like to have the "Edge" on stopping power over the vehicle in front of me.