Extended warranty

[normcloutier]

My new edge arrived at the dealer on Friday. I will be picking it up on Tuesday. Going to be a long few days wait. I would appreciate some opinions on the extended warranty on whether you have purchased it or not and why.

[akirby]

If you have the money (or credit) to pay for a big repair you'll save money in the long run by self-insuring (not buying the extended warranty). You can always gamble and get lucky on one or two vehicles but the odds are not in your favor. If you'd rather finance it with the vehicle to avoid any large bills later then that makes sense - just understand that over the long run you're probably paying more.

 

The only one worth having is the Ford ESP plan.

[JOEHIO]

To me, Ford ESP Premium Care, is like TERM Life Insurance, you're damn if you do, and damned if you don't. Took it ( 7 yr, 100,00 miles) on the wife's '09 MKS, and taking it on my '12 MKX. Yeah, it is costly, but, MAJOR repairs (engine, trans, electrical) can run into THOUSANDS of $$$$$$, so to me, it's worth the protection. Lets say you took a 20 year term life insurance on yourself and spouse, and after 20 years, you're still here, does that mean you got screwed ? I just like you play safe. You're choice !

Joe

Edited May 20, 2012 by JOEHIO

[akirby]

Actually, the odds are in your favor. Do you think Ford would offer this if they weren't able to make money on it? Remember that they know the numbers for reliabiltiy that they have designed to and have done all of the analysis before offering you this extended warrenty.

 

You have the odds backwards. The odds are in Ford's favor meaning you are more likely to spend more on the warranty than Ford will have to pay out. I think this is what you meant anyway. They wouldn't be selling the warranties if they didn't make money on them on average - and if they're making money on average then you're losing money on average.

[normcloutier]

Thanks to all who took the time to respond. I appreciate all the replies. I'll add that I have a lifetime powertrain warranty from the dealer and that I can still purchase the extended warranty up until the expiration of Ford's 3 yr/60,000k. It wil just be more expensive then as opposed to if I purchase it now. Keep the opinions coming!

[Thomas Barnes]

I bought the extended warranty with a 12 month payment plan @ 0% apr for my 2011 Edge Limited and my wife's 2011 Explorer Limited 4x4,( borrowing money for free is good). Also the complexity of the electronics is not what it used to be (Insync computer vs analog dials/gauges). I also agree it is like buying term life insurance, I dont want to use it, even if I have it. But if something does happen, I don't even have to rent a car. The warranty is the same length as the payment on the vehicles, 72 months, cash flow wise, repairs are hidden unitl the cars are paid for. We have already had a warranty claim on both vehicles, albiet within the standard 3 year warranty, fan on Explorer and AC duct control on Edge. So that's one less thing to worry about and I'm less likely to hate the cars before I've paid it off.

 

I also bought the ESP to cover maintenance in case a claim is denied by Ford because of lack of maintenance.

[JOEHIO]

Have the ESP on my wife's MKS, will also get in on my MKX. Had it on my '06 Explorer Limited, and it paid for itself over and over, and over, in the last year I had it. The Explorer was fine for 5 years, and then shit hit the fan, mostly electronics and electrical. Yes, it's like term life ins, but in my books, well worth it. Zero financing is great, too !

Edited May 30, 2012 by JOEHIO

[akirby]

I, on the other hand, have had 7 vehicles kept 2-3 years past the warranty with nary a repair. If I had bought extended warranties I would have wasted over $10K.

 

The odds are never in your favor.

Edited May 31, 2012 by akirby

[edgedout]

I, on the other hand, have had 7 vehicles kept 2-3 years past the warranty with nary a repair. If I had bought extended warranties I would have wasted over $10K.

 

The odds are never in your favor.

That is a run of incredible luck. If I were you I would knock on wood, then go gambling somewhere. That's what I do. 07 Edge 53,000 miles Zero problems

[akirby]

Exactly. If the odds were in YOUR favor then nobody would be selling extended warranties in the first place - they'd be out of business.

 

That's not to say you can't win on one or two or even more vehicles, if you're especially unlucky, but over time the odds are still in your favor IF you can afford to self-insure (pay for a big repair).

[wlepse]

I am still on the fence with this one. I have never even considered buying an extended warranty in the past but with all the issues I have seen with PTU's and BAMR I am very concerned. Plus I am still concerned about the MFT over the long haul since many controls are only available through the interface. But since the price doesn't increase much if I wait (and certainly a lot cheaper than dealer offered) I will wait and see. If things seem questionable I will likely pick one up through one of the online retailers.

[akirby]

You roll the dice and take your chances either way. Some gambles are better than others. Just consider how many repairs you can cover with $1500.

[wlepse]

I hear you but at the same time I have a buddy at work that had to replace his PTU at 65k which cost him nearly $2k and I saw a posting here were someone paid around 2k to have their BAMR replaced because the guides went bad which caused the motors to go if I remember correctly. Then throw in the MFT that is still not functioning well and I am left with three things that could cost big $. If it were just one of these thing I was concerned about I would skip it, but three big items is cause for concern. But like I said I may just sit tight and see what the first 30k or so brings us. If things feel relatively solid and they fix some of these MFT issues I'll likely take my chances. But if I have a PTU issue like some with 11's have had by 15k I will be buying a warranty.

[akirby]

I hear you but at the same time I have a buddy at work that had to replace his PTU at 65k which cost him nearly $2k and I saw a posting here were someone paid around 2k to have their BAMR replaced because the guides went bad which caused the motors to go if I remember correctly. Then throw in the MFT that is still not functioning well and I am left with three things that could cost big $. If it were just one of these thing I was concerned about I would skip it, but three big items is cause for concern. But like I said I may just sit tight and see what the first 30k or so brings us. If things feel relatively solid and they fix some of these MFT issues I'll likely take my chances. But if I have a PTU issue like some with 11's have had by 15k I will be buying a warranty.

 

And I know a lot of people who have hit jackpots in Vegas. That doesn't change the fact that the odds are still stacked squarely against you as a player. Besides, you only have 2 cases where the warranty would have paid off. How many other Edge owners do you know that have not had a problem at all? I'm sure it's way more than 2 if you stopped to think about it. But people with no problems don't complain so you don't notice them. You either have to gamble or play the averages. I play the averages. If you want to gamble then that's up to you. Just understand that it's a gamble and the odds are not in your favor.

[wlepse]

Actually I do not know anyone that has an Edge that hasn't had an issue, whether it be the MFT or a PTU. The barber I go to bought a used one last year and also had to have a PTU replaced but it was purchased with as a CPO so there was nothing out of pocket. I don't disagree that Ford must be making money on these otherwise they wouldn't sell them. But they also diversify their risks over several models and builds. So some may be better a better risk than others. For instance, while they do charge extra for AWD it isn't much considering the complexity of the system and the higher than normal failure rate of the PTU's. Also they don't differentiate what other optional equipment you have. So a stripped down SE gets charged the same as a fully loaded Limited. Obviously one has a lot more chances to have something go wrong. So it could be on some models/builds they actually lose some money but obviously overall they come out ahead. Also the other thing you don't take into account is Fords actually costs to do repairs is significantly less than ours. So while my out of pocket might be $2k for a PTU it might only cost them $750. So a $1500 policy is a win win for both parties.

[normcloutier]

^{Wow. Excellent responses. Thanks to all that replied. I was sitting on the fence about this weighing both sides to these arguments. In the end, I did get the extended warranty but at a family and friends price which was $700 less than what was first offered.}

 

^{I am normally the one who doesn't get extended anything included package policies, glass deductibles, etc. My reasoning for going with the extended warranty was the sheer level of technology on this 13 edge, the few known issues and of course the great price. I can't imagine what it would cost to replace an instrument cluster or MFT out of warranty. We had to replace the instrument cluster on a 06 freestar from work. The dealer even got a used one from salvage and the total bill on was over $600. I keep vehicles for a long time. Had my Honda CR-V for 11 years. It had knobs and buttons. Not much to go wrong there.}

 

^{I'll note that I chose the 84 month/120k ultimate warranty. Hopefully I made the right decision. We'll see in 7 years.}

[akirby]

Actually I do not know anyone that has an Edge that hasn't had an issue, whether it be the MFT or a PTU. The barber I go to bought a used one last year and also had to have a PTU replaced but it was purchased with as a CPO so there was nothing out of pocket. I don't disagree that Ford must be making money on these otherwise they wouldn't sell them. But they also diversify their risks over several models and builds. So some may be better a better risk than others. For instance, while they do charge extra for AWD it isn't much considering the complexity of the system and the higher than normal failure rate of the PTU's. Also they don't differentiate what other optional equipment you have. So a stripped down SE gets charged the same as a fully loaded Limited. Obviously one has a lot more chances to have something go wrong. So it could be on some models/builds they actually lose some money but obviously overall they come out ahead. Also the other thing you don't take into account is Fords actually costs to do repairs is significantly less than ours. So while my out of pocket might be $2k for a PTU it might only cost them $750. So a $1500 policy is a win win for both parties.

 

We've been through this before. There are plenty of 2011+ Edge owners who have never had a problem. They're just not going around posting that fact.

[wlepse]

We've been through this before. There are plenty of 2011+ Edge owners who have never had a problem. They're just not going around posting that fact.

I never said there weren't people w/o issues but you asked how many I knew without and I gave my honest answer. But again I have decided to wait to see if I am going to be in the group with minimal/no issues with the above mentioned parts or if I will fall in the other category. But so far as normcloutier pointed out there is a lot of tech in these vehicles and so far the MFT hasn't proven to be reliable. I am hoping Ford can turn that around but they have a long way to go to restore faith in the system. After all, those of us that had issues were told to wait for the rewrite that it would fix all these issues. While mine does seem better it still isn't right and some have gotten worse performance. So who knows what the future will hold with this system and if they are even planning on supporting it.

[akirby]

so far the MFT hasn't proven to be reliable.

 

The *software* problems have been fixed for the most part. The *hardware* problems are not long term reliability issues - either the APIM works now or it doesn't so it would be covered by the factory warranty (and they even extended the factory warranty on replacements). There is no reason to believe that MFT will require any out of warranty repairs - at least not any more so than any other factory head unit.

 

So who knows what the future will hold with this system and if they are even planning on supporting it.

 

Because replacing APIMs, extending the warranty, putting out bug fixes every 1-2 months and completely rewriting the software including mailing out flash drives to every owner and replacing the Nav cards shows a complete lack of support from Ford.

 

Please go find a dealer that's willing to replace your faulty APIM or just get rid of it if you're not willing to try to get it fixed.

[wlepse]

The *software* problems have been fixed for the most part. The *hardware* problems are not long term reliability issues - either the APIM works now or it doesn't so it would be covered by the factory warranty (and they even extended the factory warranty on replacements). There is no reason to believe that MFT will require any out of warranty repairs - at least not any more so than any other factory head unit.

 

 

 

Because replacing APIMs, extending the warranty, putting out bug fixes every 1-2 months and completely rewriting the software including mailing out flash drives to every owner and replacing the Nav cards shows a complete lack of support from Ford.

 

Please go find a dealer that's willing to replace your faulty APIM or just get rid of it if you're not willing to try to get it fixed.

I hardly think the software has been fixed...there are still plenty of known bugs. As for no reason to believe the MFT will have more issues than a standard head unit...that is just crazy. More parts+more complex=more likely to have issues. It is also concerning that myself as well as many others have reported that certain versions worked better than others which to me indicates that there is some conflict in the way the software runs with some hardware. When I had 2.8 I had a few problems, went to 2.11 and it was horrible. You and many others suggested it was an APIM, it was replaced with no benefit. Then all of a sudden the rewrite comes and that same APIM seems to work much better. Nothing changed but software. So there is some concern that even if they continue to provide new releases that I may revert back to having more problems. You read my statement of if they are planning on supporting it as a current or past tense thing. I am referring to the future, this is an unknown. At some point they will stop supporting the system it is just a matter of whether they fix everything before they move on.

 

You also say to just get the APIM replaced, this is always your response even in light of the fact mentioned above that the current APIM I have was no improvement with 2.11 but all of a sudden is mostly OK with the rewrite and some have seen the exact opposite. You also make it seem like it is as easy to get it replaced as you saying it. I have already been to the dealer I purchased it from, they tested it and said it is fine. I have since called two other local dealers and they don't seem to want to touch it. Both gave vague references to Ford working on the fixes. I see their reluctance to work on it as an indication they don't have confidence they can fix it either. With that lack of confidence I would rather sit tight with what I have and see what Ford comes up with.

[ablb]

We waited until the factory warranty was almost over.

Then got a couple of online quotes, 1 from Florida the other New York.

 

Took them to our dealer and asked him to meet or beat.

He did.

 

 

OH almost forgot…the quotes (Ford NOT the dealership) were for hundreds instead of thousands of $’s for power train only.

 

ab

Edited May 31, 2012 by ablb

[edgedout]

No, it's not incredible luck. I've had the same thing. Only thing I've ever done to the cars is normal maintenance (most of it done myself)..I've only had one car that had a major failure after the standard warranty period. My list of cars (with approximate mileage):

 

1982 Omni traded in at 175,000 for the 93 Sundance

1985 Ramcharger - donated at 150,000. New transmission in at 49,000 (just before 50,000 warranty expired)

1984 Suburban - sold with 150,000

1993 Sundance - totaled in accident 75,000

1995 E150 Conversion van - donated at 170,000

1995 Windstar - totaled in accident*. Had to pay out of pocket for head gasket failure. at 75,000

1999 Caravan - donated at 160,000

2001 Ram pickup - donated at 125,000 (too expensive to keep on the road at 12MPG

2005 Durango - current car 101,000

2005 Neon - 125,000

2013 Edge - current car

 

The only major repairs I've had on any of these were after 100,000 miles. The Omni should have had a main bearing seal replaced at around 160,000. It was blowing oil out when I ran, but I just kept putting a quart in every two-three weeks and changing the filters on it when I should do an oil change.

 

For all of the recent cars (1995+) The only things I've had to do that would have been covered by an extended warranty were:

Caravan had to replace sensor in transmission ~300.

Windstar had blown headgasket ~1000

Neon had a leaking gas line that I fixed at ~14 for the part

Neon just had the water pump and the timing belt replaced for ~600. That was at 120,000.

The Ramcharger had the typical Dodge water pump that started seeping at 60,000. Again, I replaced at just the cost of the parts. Really nice to be able to climb into the engine compartment and work on it.

 

 

I would say that this kind of repair history is pretty typical. Otherwise the extended warranty companies would be out of business because they would be paying out more money then they were taking in. I don't have an MBA, but even to me that doesn't seem like a good business model.

 

 

 

*The mid-90's were not kind to me. I apparently had a target painted on a couple of cars because I kept getting hit while I was driving them. The Windstar was hit three times.

Yes it is luck. Akirby said "nary a repair". Then you list all the repairs you've had to do over the years. I know the warrenty is a gamble, but don't try to

tell this old guy if you maintain your car you won't have problems. Sometimes things break, like the AC for example.

[akirby]

Yes it is luck. Akirby said "nary a repair". Then you list all the repairs you've had to do over the years. I know the warrenty is a gamble, but don't try to

tell this old guy if you maintain your car you won't have problems. Sometimes things break, like the AC for example.

 

The question was major repairs during the extended warranty period. The repairs after 100K would not have been covered anyway.

 

Nobody was implying that you should not expect any problems, but let's say you get a 7 yr 100K ESP. The engine and tranny are only covered by the ESP for 2 yrs 40K miles. Anything before that is covered by the powertrain warranty and anything after is not covered at all.

 

Major repairs, especially engine and transmission failures, are pretty rare these days before 100K. Tranny's can have problems but the engines are bulletproof given proper lubrication. Electronics can be expensive but those failures also appear to be rare outside of the factory warranty (electronics tend to fail immediately or work properly for years and years - no moving parts).

 

There is some luck involved for sure but the repair rate is really irrelevant. The factory will charge based on the average failure cost and they will always charge, on average, more than they expect to pay out regardless of the actual number. Whether they charge $500 or $5000 the odds are still the same.

 

I even recommend ESPs for folks who can't afford a big repair bill - but you should finance it with the vehicle so the payments are low and spread out over years. If you're going to pay cash in a lump sum then you can probably afford to pay for a big repair occasionally and in that case you'll likely save money over the long run by self-insuring.

 

Even if I had to spend $4K tomorrow I'm still happy because I've still saved over $6K.